from a few days ago in Egypt-- enjoy

[Independent]

Therefore, those calling themselves Muslims and advocating against a Sharia state in Egypt preferring instead a secular state are instead demonstrating apostasy from Islam and therefore become munafiqueen.

Logically, that means that the total number of Muslims in the world (ie those you would accept as worthy of the name) is very much less than the figures usually quoted.

 

[faithandpeace]

Am I supposed to care what you think? I know what your agenda is here. I am not fooled.

 

[glo]

I can see that democracy has been illusion in the country where during its the recent history hasn´t had any kind of democratic rulers, just only dictators. Getting workable, western-like democracy (if they even want that one) might takes decades and many generations - a lot of more time and work than one elections.

I agree.

People look to democracy and think it is going to offer a perfect world. That they can elect whichever government and life they want and will be forever happy!
The problem is that everybody else is voting too ... and people have different ideas and opinions on what they want.
That's the nature of democracy - working out your differences in opinion and (hopefully) finding a workable compromise.

Perhaps we forget that many of our European democracies are many generations old and have matured over the decades (and perhaps even become complacent). In the early days our democracies also went through rocky times and conflict too. Democracy needs to be worked on and worked out.
It's not a magic wand!

 

[Jedi_Mindset]

Until you realize that we are not living under 'democracy' at all

 

[glo]

The fact that any place of worship is being attacked, be that a mosque or church is wrong. I see the above articles are playing the blame game, blaming brotherhood supporters, on the basis of pro-Mursi slogans being heard from the mouth of some of the attackers, an a fake pro-Mursi looking website created condoning the attacks. Anyone can shout slogans or create a website. The Muslim Brotherhood has categorically denied involvement in, and support for, such attacks: http://www.ikhwanweb.com/article.php?id=31246 They have said they have not done it, but by the same token have not played the blame game, and haven't tried to lay the finger of blame at anyone without solid evidence.

Bishop Angaelos, General Bishop of The Coptic Orthodox Church in the United Kingdom, spoke about the attacks on churches in Egypt. He also directed no blame at any particular group, but spoke of the effect the conflict is having on all of Egypt.

What we have witnessed on the streets of Egypt over the past weeks, and particularly earlier this week, is nothing short of devastating. To see so many lives lost whether of victims or perpetrators is not only a loss to families and communities, but a loss to the nation and to humanity as a whole. At this point and without reservation or exception we offer our prayers for all those who mourn; those who have lost loved ones, who have been injured, or who feel more powerless than they did.

[...]

Over the past year we have seen an increased marginalisation of Christians and minority groups in Egypt followed by what some see, in these attacks on churches, as intentional instigation of anger attempting to prompt a retaliation that would lead to a spiralling pattern of violence. If this indeed is a ploy, it will of course fail, as it has been proven over centuries that the nature of Christians in Egypt is not to retaliate but rather to continue striving as loyal and law-abiding citizens of their indigenous homeland. While Christians in Egypt have been accused of being Western sympathisers and seeking Western intervention for decades, in actual fact what we have witnessed in our contemporary history and in particular over the past few weeks, is quite the opposite.

[...]

We continue to pray for Egypt, comprised of her ninety million Egyptians of various religions, beliefs, and outlooks, praying that a much needed peace and wisdom descends upon all. We further pray that Egypt returns to being a nation for all, and not one governed by some, to the exclusion of others.

http://www.christianmuslimforum.org/index.php/news/341-comment-on-the-on-going-situation-in-egypt

 

[Independent]

Until you realize that we are not living under 'democracy' at all

The military coup is by definition an attack ON democracy, not an attack BY democracy. No matter how incompetent the Morsi government was, the best way to get rid of it was to vote it out in the next election, as would surely have happened. Whereas the coup ensures that there will be no election worthy of the name.

The greatest advantage of democracy is not the governments it brings in, but the ones it gets rid of PEACEFULLY. All governments go bad eventually.

 

[glo]

Not sure how authentic people will find this article by Ibrahim Negm, the senior advisor to the Grand Mufti of Egypt.

The Egypt that witnessed scenes of joy and jubilation at images of dead bodies yesterday is not an Egypt to which we should aspire, or with which we should be content. We must be better than this – as we are. Now is not the time to revive old grudges without due regard for the basic value of life. Now is the time to band together to save our country from further deterioration – whether political, economic or moral. God affirms in the Holy Koran that though humans are capable of all sorts of bloodshed, they are also capable of heights of moral excellence and rectitude.

Among Egypt’s provinces, we also witnessed a disturbing rise in sectarian sentiment. Churches were vandalized and attacked. It is unacceptable that in such trying moments, our minority populations should have to bear a disproportionate amount of the burden. Egyptians are all in this together, as the nation belongs to all of us, not to members of one religion, sect, party or organization to the exclusion of all others. We all participate in a social contract, a vow before God to put peace and harmony first. In no circumstances, can we allow trying circumstances to transform us into partisan thugs.

These attack by extremist elements on churches as well as the subsequent clashes between Muslims and Copts cannot be the work of anyone who truly cares for religion or nation, and genuinely seeks to abide by their principles. Rather, this is the handiwork of those who put their interests and ideologies above all else.

[...]

It is now upon us to take up this example seriously and refrain from unnecessary division for the sake of our country. Any attempt to sow discord among Egyptian people must be opposed in the strongest terms possible. I have no doubt that forces that seek to divide Egyptians or make them to plunge in civil war will ultimately fail, for Egypt has been a symbol of coexistence for centuries and will continue to be by the grace of God.

http://www.ali-gomaa.com/?page=scholary-output&so_details=239#.UhCHh8efFRI.facebook

 

[Abz2000]

democracy is a lie. worse still, america seems to believe that democracy means the vote of the cfr, not the majority in the country that votes.
democracy and republic are totally different forms of government.

 

[Jedi_Mindset]

democracy is a lie. worse still, america seems to believe that democracy means the vote of the cfr, not the majority in the country that votes.
democracy and republic are totally different forms of government.

Thats what i meant bro, but people here thought that i was talking about the coup *big facepalm*. The very idea of 'democracy' here in the west is a dillusion, people need to realize that. There are alot of reasons why.

 

[Independent]

Thats what i meant bro, but people here thought that i was talking about the coup *big facepalm*.

Well, the thread is about Egypt, not democracy in general.

 

[Jedi_Mindset]

Well, the thread is about Egypt, not democracy in general.

Being offtopic sometimes is healthy, As long as you end with the subject the topic is about. You can't continously talk about the same subject, it would make a debate/discussion boring.

 

[Independent]

Being offtopic sometimes is healthy, As long as you end with the subject the topic is about. You can't continously talk about the same subject, it would make a debate/discussion boring.

Sadly, all these years after leaving school, it would seem I'm still afraid of being told off....

 

[Signor]

he Western states such as the U.S. that routinely demonstrate support for munafiq Muslim groups and regimes that oppose Sharia do so in the false guise of defending human rights.

Its prudent and higly advised not to use words like "Munafiq" as some times this is not the case.

 

[Jedi_Mindset]

ignorance is a better word to use.

 

[سيف الله]

Salaam

News just in, seems credible

Mubarak could be freed

Mubarak, 85, was arrested after a popular uprising overthrew him on 11 February 2011 as unrest spread across the Arab world.

In scenes that mesmerised Arabs, the ex-strongman appeared in a court-room cage during his trial on charges that ranged from corruption to complicity in the murder of protesters.

More than a year on, the only legal grounds for Mubarak's continued detention rest on another corruption case which his lawyer, Fareed el-Deeb, said would be settled swiftly. He told Reuters:

All we have left is a simple administrative procedure that should take no more than 48 hours. He should be freed by the end of the week

Without confirming that Mubarak would be freed, a judicial source said the former leader would spend another two weeks behind bars before judicial authorities made a final decision in the outstanding case against him.

Mubarak, along with his interior minister, was convicted and sentenced to life in prison last year for failing to stop the killing of protesters in the revolt that swept him from power.

He still faces a retrial in that case after appeals from the prosecution and defence, but this would not necessarily require him to stay in jail.

Mubarak did not appear at a hearing in the case on Saturday. He was also absent from Monday's proceedings.

He is being held at Tora prison on the southern outskirts of Cairo, the same facility where senior Brotherhood members have been detained in a clampdown that followed Mursi's overthrow.

Mubarak's eventual release could stir more political tension in Egypt, where at least 850 people, including 70 policemen and soldiers, have been killed since the army-backed government forcibly dispersed Brotherhood sit-ins in Cairo on Wednesday.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/19/egypt-hosni-mubarak-could-be-freed-sinai-police-deaths-live

 

[sister herb]

Keeping ex-leaders in prison or releasing them depending who keeps the power tells even that the judicial system in Egypt is far from the independent level.

 

[جوري]

May Allah (swt) bring justice to the Egyptian people and rid the land of oppressers be they kaffirs or munafiqeen. May Allah (swt) bring peace to the righteous in Egypt be they Muslims or Ahl Al-Kitaab. May Allah (swt) help us all to expose the truth to the world of what is going on and bring hope and faith to those who are righteous and bring shame and fear to the wrongdoers until they change their evil ways. Ameen.

Hypoctrites are indeed in the bottomest lowest pits of hell- you've no idea about the mass killing that's going on in Egypt like now, it parrallels what happened in Algeria in 1992, which by the way Algerian cops admitted to dressing in civilian clothes to ruin the reputation of Islamists so they'd never rise to power again. YES make no mistake we're under massive oppressive crusades even in our alleged homelands. They control us completely and if you've a moment please read about the Sykes picot agreement which was exposed by the bolshevcs in their revolution-- there is an all out war on Muslims and our armies, well they're not our armies anymore, in fact they're Israel's armies- they call peaceful protesters terrorists and Islam a terrorist religion - yes right there in the heart of Islam!
Did you know Dr. Tareq Suwidan just lost his job, Walid Ibn Talal fired him, that big zionist masonist also owns al3rbya and sky news and fox.. so know that we've horrible hypocrites Zionists working in our midst owning it all while pretending to be Muslims. They've looted the wealth of Muslims and spend it on Dajjal media!
I no longer wonder why it is that no one will recognize Dajjal when he comes when I have encountered that much stupidity..
you want to know what else is ticking me off, the other day I take my little niece she's 8 to see the smurfs and right there in the commercial before it started they're advocating homosexuality by force you can't even watch little children programming that should be free of all profanity and sexual innuendos without encountering this brain wash, except it is just so in your face now.. Even if you watch nothing on TV but cooking and home and garden still there they push their vile agenda..
there's basically no room for you in this brave new world if you have some morals or principles to adhere to, No, those are all pathetic and backwards and they're so peaceful loving and progressive. Even when they kill thousands and torch the rest of them alive without batting an eyelash or saying more than well they shouldn't have been there and two minutes later they make commercials about cats and dogs suffering for your monthly donation of $18. No value to Muslim life even akin to that of dogs and cats!

 

[جوري]

The greatest advantage of democracy is not the governments it brings in, but the ones it gets rid of PEACEFULLY. All governments go bad eventually.

That's a load of crock. Democracy is completely and utterly meaningless to a system that's tightly put in place so that it doesn't matter which face you bring in, it will always be the same vile agenda with some degree of variation. Also you know jack about the failure or lack thereof of Mursi's govt. And I am not really interested in the crap you quote as if facts!The U.S loves Mubarak's regime and wants it at any cost, it doesn't matter by whom, Umar Suliman, Sissy, Mubarak's kid or whatever just so long as the system is the same, whether brought by democracy or monarchy or totalitarianism it doesn't matter.. all they want is for their image to not be tarnished in the media while they support the coup with 11 billion beneath the table and call for early elections.. Well like I said they already voted five times and all their votes were cast in the garbage until they bring the candidates that America approves of for israel' sake and then call it an excellent democracy that's all inclusive. you're welcome to sell your crap of course, but we've the option to not buy it!

 

[Jedi_Mindset]

Problem is, you can say all these things to some people but if they are relucant to study these things and brush these things off by saying 'Oh thats nonsense' 'Oh thats a conspiracy theory!' then they are a waste of time to discuss with.

We are certainly not living in a democracy, democracy is supposedly when a leader gets chosen by the people while this leader is not seeking for the position himself. This is how caliphs should be chosen (looking at Abu bakr As-Siddiq(Ra), Umar ibn Khattab(Ra), Uthman ibn Affan(Ra) and Ali Ibn Abu talib(Ra).

Today, you have leaders who promise everything, showing a big fake smile while their intentions are evil and not honest, and the best liar and hypocrite gets chosen, this defeats the whole purpose of 'democracy'.

Shariah law itself has a form of democracy, as the righteous leader gets chosen by the people (truthfully elected and not selected) while the leader is not seeking for this position. Such men will always be helped by Allah(Swt).

There are countless other reasons why the west has not even a democracy at all.

 

[Independent]

democracy is supposedly when a leader gets chosen by the people while this leader is not seeking for the position himself.

This simply is not a definition of democracy. it's also incredibly hard to pull off in real life. If you have read Shakespeare's 'Julius Caesar', you can see how possible it is to manipulate this method as much as any other.