Gay Mosque To Open In Paris

[White Rose]

What have we humans become...

 

[Independent]

Whatever the exact situation for homosexuality in Islam, you have to consider that those Muslims who have gay feelings have no choice about the matter. Being born both gay and Muslim is categorically not a good lifestyle option. More than in any other society, homosexuality in a Muslim state is not just difficult but often actively dangerous to life and limb. This should tell you something, For homosexual Muslims, they feel gay because of something in themselves, not just because of 'bad character'.

The feelings can't be prevented. Perhaps some of them may possibly be able to stop themselves from acting on them. Imagine if you were told, as a small child, that you will never be permitted to have any emotional or physical relationship with another person. Maybe you could do it, maybe not.

You should also consider that it's only by sheer luck one way or the other that they, and not you, are gay. i don't want to get into a debate about the 'gay gene', it's not important. Whether the reason for homosexuality is biological or environmental, they still have these feelings and they are as complete and overwhelming as your heterosexual feelings. No matter how disastrous it will be for their lives, And in defiance of the strongest possible incentive not to be gay.
Even if the law tells you it's wrong, you don't have to be vicious about it in your own mind. The only reason you aren't gay too, is chance.

(Just to head off any childish replies to this, I am not gay myself, I am married with a family.)

 

[جوري]

They're not told you can never have feelings or emotions toward another person what a completely failing analogy - we ARE allowed to love we are not allowed to be lewd and that applies to both homos and heterosexual!
Do you jump the first woman you've feelings for and rape her because you can't help how you feel?
---

 

[جوري]

What have we humans become...

الحمد لله many of us choose the dignity الله سبحانه وتعالى conferred upon us while others prefer their base instincts prefer to behave and act like animals and insist that we're nothing but animals acting on every impulse!
That's their prerogative, it's certainly not ours and this is nothing more but a war of words to cover every conceivable vice with a cloak of honor- so fight it!
Islam is the last ideology left to say it like it's and lay out the ground rules why do you think they fight it so much?

Pedarests also can't help it neither can the necrophiliacs so let's have a mass orgy for deviants!
They want to be a literal ---- for one another they don't need a mosque to approve their behavior - Allah swt told us in the noble book of the people of Lut or what book will they use to justify their inclinations? !

 

[ba51th]

I wonder why you should make a statement that you are not gay, if indeed gay is normal to you, you don't mind if people thought you are gay, because there is nothing wrong with gay

you know, I'm handsome, but I don't mind if people call me ugly, because there is nothing wrong with ugly face

 

[جوري]

It's simply flashing it in the face of everyone no more no less it's true if they found this behavior normal they wouldn't need the constant advertisement would they? Heterosexuals don't have parades and advertise their bedroom behavior if you really just wanted to worship then what's the point of bringing gay or prostitute into it? Kinda defeats the point of seeking forgiveness from sins of the flesh in whatever form!

 

[Independent]

They're not told you can never have feelings or emotions toward another person

But that is exactly what some people seem to be saying here. Some responses are portraying the emotional attraction itself as sinful, not just the act. Yet the emotion is (in most cases) something they can't help, no more than someone else can help being heterosexual.

Yes, it's different if they act on it. But to restrain from action for your whole life must be astonishingly difficult. I wonder how many of us could manage that, if we were tested? If you believe Islam says it must be punished, that's one thing. But you should know that only chance stands between you and the person being punished.

I'm suggesting that having violently anti-gay feelings yourself is not right because you are attacking someone for something that they cannot prevent. (The feelings, not the actions.) You can follow the rules of Islam (if that's what they are) without feeling such violence towards them.

However, i can understand why people would oppose the idea of a homosexual mosque. That's going beyond personal issues into a public statement.

I wonder why you should make a statement that you are not gay,

If you argue for 'understanding' for homosexuality, then sooner or later someone accuses you of being gay yourself. I just thought I'd get that out of the way beforehand.

Strangely enough one of my best friends at school was a gay Muslim, which in retrospect was a remarkable thing. Girls loved him and he tried to go that way, but he felt nothing. Yet his elder brother was as rampant a heterosexual as you could wish. (Well, a bit too rampant.)

 

[جوري]

But that is exactly what some people seem to be saying here.

People can say whatever- it isn't a fact anymore than what you peddle here is a fact!
the facts are those religious and scientific. We learn about homos from the DSM (psychology) not in genetics and we learn what is acceptable in religion from the Quran and sunnah not the web- so hopefully that will take care of the long and short of your queries!

then sooner or later someone accuses you of being gay yourself.

That's your own preemptive attack toward a topic you're sensitive about. This subject is about a so-called gay mosque, not your feelings, not your inclinations, not the friends you've known. I have had two patients who were gay and gotten married (to members of the opposite sex) so it isn't as crippling an emotion as all that- if we're going to go by personal experience!

best,

 

[Independent]

People can say whatever- it isn't a fact anymore than what you peddle here is a fact!

Then why wasting time answering for them?

We learn about homos from the DSM (psychology) not in genetics

As I said, the genetics/environment issue doesn't matter. Their feelings are overwhelming and we can't tell them they don't have them.

I have had two patients who were gay and gotten married (to members of the opposite sex)

Yes, many such marriages used to happen in the west too. Frequently disastrous for the other partner.

 

[جوري]

Then why wasting time answering for them?

it is an open forum!

As I said, the genetics/environment issue doesn't matter. Their feelings are overwhelming and we can't tell them they don't have them.

That's --- - as I asked you before do you go on raping women because the feeling becomes 'overwhelming' for you? :haha: also no one said they can't have feelings so you're simply going in circles!

Yes, many such marriages used to happen in the west too. Frequently disastrous for the other partner.

I'll wait until the disaster rate is reported in the annals of psychiatry before we reach the same conclusion!

best,

 

[YusufNoor]

Subhanallah, the never ending thread.

here's the deal, ANY sex outside marriage is haram. (i guess, unless you own some slaves. but i couldn't explain that properly cuz...well i don't understand it) the only marriage formula is for man and a woman.

would the Prophet, pbuh, have performed gay marriage? uh, NO!!! but if someone knew him or the companions, they knew REAL Muslims. People with iman and taqwah. we don't have that today. just a bunch of people running around claiming to be Muslims. in the beginning of Islam, Muslims actually attracted people to Islam. today, we are the cause of people rejecting it. a more accurate statement might be, we are the cause of people not giving Islam a second thought.

can people think they were born gay? ABSOLUTELY! it is incorrect, but that is what they think. just because (they think) they are gay, does not make them monsters. they aren't "corrupt" on purpose. just gay...

the people of Sodom and Gomorrah had a Prophet amongst them, Lot, pbuh. thus, they were rejecting GOD, and they performed homosexual acts. the people today ARE NOT rejecting GOD. they are rejecting us! BIG DIFFERENCE!!!

we don't represent God properly. is that their fault or ours? if you ever wondered why Abu Bakr or Umr ibn al Kittaab feared Qiyama, this should cause Muslims A GREAT DEAL OF ANXIETY. we can assume they represented Islam properly. what about us?

those Muslims teaching it is OK to be gay, well, they have a bit of a problem on Qiyama as well. the Prophet, pbuh, came to perfect good manners, enjoin good and forbid evil. just running around "forbidding evil" is NOT our job description. we have to learn the other 2 parts.

let's learn to be good Muslims. let's learn to portray Islam properly. let's learn some good manners. let's FEAR ALLAH! Maybe we can do some good then. all the people, well not all- i'm making a point here, that we proclaim to be "evil" might get to Jannah a lot quicker than we do. WHY? we taught misguidance rather than guidance. those people didn't reject Islam, they rejected us. imagine Judgment Day, and it is YOUR FAULT that many people rejected Islam.

if we claim to be Muslims, let us at least try to do it properly. WE should know better.

think about it.

ma salaama

 

[جوري]

Subhanallah, the never ending thread.

That's how the devil perpetuates his agenda through his agents!

 

[Pygoscelis]

I assume you haven't learnt how reproduction works?

Did you misread the text you quoted on purpose? Perhaps if you read it again, knowing that yes I know homosexual unions won't produce children, you may just see my point.

 

[جوري]

The whole 'population explosion' myth is nothing more than a fiction created by a group of elitists with a sense of entitlement they see it best to enslave 90% of the world so they can put billions in swiss banks at the blood and sweat of others. In fact you can fit 7 billion people in a place the size of Texas and everyone can have a house and a backyard. Much of the earth's surface is uninhabited in fact and enough resources to go around is properly utilized for the good of all not for the good of 1%!

 

[ba51th]

oh yes, if you should know, girls loved me too, but I'm more prefer to not go to detail, because I'm afraid I will make a fitnah about myself, I'm afraid women think that I am such a bad men that think loved by girls is something to show off to other, that girls is nothing but such kind of trophy of my achievement.

if I should go to detail, that's mean I will tell everything that those girl already trust me to keep it to myself, I don't like to have an attribute of hypocrite people, where they make promise they will break it. and I'm happy to keep their privacy only to myself.

 

[Pygoscelis]

The whole 'population explosion' myth is nothing more than a fiction created by a group of elitists with a sense of entitlement they see it best to enslave 90% of the world so they can put billions in swiss banks at the blood and sweat of others. In fact you can fit 7 billion people in a place the size of Texas and everyone can have a house and a backyard. Much of the earth's surface is uninhabited in fact and enough resources to go around is properly utilized for the good of all not for the good of 1%!

He said that the human race would go extinct if we were all homosexual. There is no risk of us all going that way, why would we? And the human race is growing exponentially. We do not face extinction due to low breeding rates. A few homosexuals are not going to make us extinct. You could actually increase homosexuality dramatically in humans and we still would not be endangered. It is a ridiculous argument.

When the instinctual sense of disgust most of us have towards homosexuality came to be (by evolution or by God or whatever) we actually were very low in number and this argument would have made sense, and perhaps that is why we have this disgust reaction in the first place, but times have changed and it no longer makes a whole lot of sense.

 

[Independent]

just because (they think) they are gay, does not make them monsters. they aren't "corrupt" on purpose. just gay...

Absolutely, that's exactly what I'm saying.

the people of Sodom and Gomorrah had a Prophet amongst them, Lot, pbuh. thus, they were rejecting GOD, and they performed homosexual acts. the people today ARE NOT rejecting GOD. they are rejecting us! BIG DIFFERENCE!!!

A challenging idea and I think there is a lot of truth to it.

 

[Pygoscelis]

This thread started out promissing, with sensible thoughts and arguments being made, but unfortunately it descended into bigotry.

It is one thing to say you find homosexuality disgusting and that you would never engage in it. It is one thing to say your religion doesn't accept it and that any muslims accepting it are not real muslims as far as you are concerned. But it is quite another when you cross the line and preach hate against homosexuals or call for violence against those who engage in homosexual sex.

You guys are muslims, so I ask you to consider how you feel when those who are not muslims preach hate and violence against you merely for your beliefs and rituals. How do you feel when you see seething hatred like with "burn a Koran day" or when you see people dismiss Palestinians or Iraqis etc as people worth caring about because they are muslims? How do you feel when people say you should be ashamed of being muslim and that if you must have such feelings, then at least don't act on them. I stand with you against that. And I stand with homosexuals against you for the exact same reason.

You ask why are there gay pride parades? I am amazed that there are not more gay militants given how gay people are treated.

 

[جوري]

He said that the human race would go extinct if we were all homosexual. There is no risk of us all going that way, why would we? And the human race is growing exponentially. We do not face extinction due to low breeding rates. A few homosexuals are not going to make us extinct. You could actually increase homosexuality dramatically in humans and we still would not be endangered. It is a ridiculous argument.

When the instinctual sense of disgust most of us have towards homosexuality came to be (by evolution or by God or whatever) we actually were very low in number and this argument would have made sense, and perhaps that is why we have this disgust reaction in the first place, but times have changed and it no longer makes a whole lot of sense.

Everyone has their own theory as to why this is immoral. I am not obliged to put a human explanation over a divine decree.
also if we're increasing at an exponential rate we're also dying at an exponential rate.. it is a matter of perspective. None of us 7 bil of us on this earth are going to be here a hundred yrs from now.. yes even if the Japanese come up with something- and you simply don't know what the future holds from natural or man made disasters to perpetuate the survival of this specie.. cockroaches are more successful at reproduction than we're!


best,

 

[جوري]

preach hate against homosexuals or call for violence against those who engage in homosexual sex.

Who has preached hate or violence here per your opinion? If we're going to go by very narrow definitions that you propose here then by the same token every homosexual preaches hatred and violence against heterosexuality!


best,