All of the above is either speculation or perhaps faults in Israeli operations, I am not approving of them, I am just saying that accidents happen or what you are saying may not be able to be proven (I dont know because you didnt provide any substance) Also what about the rest of my post, do you agree or disagree with it and why? Why only respond to the one liner that was in response to the same? I dont deny that Israel is not the goody two shoes it claims to be but I also do not deny that Hamas is either. Bottom line, if Hamas and any other militant Palestinians stopped attacking Israel, Israel in turn would also have to stop or face international sanctions and condemnation. Ever heard of the term "Live to fight another day"?
Gaza War
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All of the above is either speculation or perhaps faults in Israeli operations, I am not approving of them, I am just saying that accidents happen or what you are saying may not be able to be proven (I dont know because you didnt provide any substance) Also what about the rest of my post, do you agree or disagree with it and why? Why only respond to the one liner that was in response to the same? I dont deny that Israel is not the goody two shoes it claims to be but I also do not deny that Hamas is either. Bottom line, if Hamas and any other militant Palestinians stopped attacking Israel, Israel in turn would also have to stop or face international sanctions and condemnation. Ever heard of the term "Live to fight another day"?
Those weren't "accidents."
How can they be accidental, when there were no military targets around?
I'll get you the links...
Which leads me back to my original point, how does the press or anyone for that matter know who is a "military target"? I am not saying that what you are saying is incorrect, I am just playing the devils advocate, I mean we dont know the identities or the lives that any of the people killed lead, I cant imagine that a lot of vacationers want to visit this particular war torn place, please correct me if I am wrong.
**also again you didnt respond to the second half of my post
Skywalker
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Well, now that Al Qa3da have shown their support for Hamas and urged the entire Muslim ummah to stand up with Hamas, provide them with weapons, money, etc., to drive out the Israelis and the U.S., I'd just like to know what people's thoughts here are on the subject...
This thread's been pretty dead lately, let's see if we can get some good old controversy cooking in here
This thread's been pretty dead lately, let's see if we can get some good old controversy cooking in here
Well, now that Al Qa3da have shown their support for Hamas and urged the entire Muslim ummah to stand up with Hamas, provide them with weapons, money, etc., to drive out the Israelis and the U.S., I'd just like to know what people's thoughts here are on the subject...
This thread's been pretty dead lately, let's see if we can get some good old controversy cooking in here
My thoughts on it are why would the Muslims of the world unite with a terrorist group like Al-Qaeda or Hamas? They do not abide by the teachings of the Quran or the Prophet (pbuh), they kill other Muslims who do not share their views (or really anyone who disagrees with them) and they are basically just all around disgusting people. Why would the ummah unite under such groups? Why would practicing Muslims fund such organizations that blatantly go against their beliefs? If Muslim were to unite under these misguided organizations, what do Muslims think that Allah would provide for them if they are not abiding by his book?
Trumble
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The old phrase "we will fight to the last drop of your blood" springs to mind.
Skywalker
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I think that Al Qa3da are pretty stupid, just like Hamas. Hamas might have good intentions in some cases (I personally give them much more respect than Al Qa3da), but their methods come off as quite foolish, as if they don't consider any long-term consequences of their actions. The same can be said about Al Qa3da, except without the good intentions.
I think the problem with Hamas is that they're too honest about what they want. They're not playing it politically like they should. From what I've seen from Hamas representatives, they seem good-natured, but for some reason don't condemn the actions of their military wings nor do they admit that they don't have control over them. Hamas showed amnesty to the Fatah members after their victory, they also said that they were gonna try to free Alan Johnston from the hands of that one militant group, plus they came on TV numerous times with messages that seemed positive, but too honest for politics. So this has left me a little puzzled.
Either way, Al Qa3da have proven themselves to me to be not only stupid and inhuman, but also one of the current enemies of Islam. I would never ally myself with them nor would I encourage anyone else to do so, no matter how noble their cause might seem. Their belief system is whacked, they have strayed from Islam and their beliefs have become twisted into...something else. I don't think that there is a single organization on this planet that has Islam down to the point that I would consider allying myself with them. The Muslim Brotherhood of Egypt is close, but they're not 100% either. At least they're playing it smart and trying to do what they can diplomatically (unfortunately for them in a completely un-diplomatic country) instead of militarily. Hezbullah has also shown that they can be smart and diplomatic, and strong at the same time. Sure they've done some stupid things, but overall I think they're alright. If they worked harder on education and economy and not only focused on the political aspects of Islam, I think they could really do some good.
I think the problem with Hamas is that they're too honest about what they want. They're not playing it politically like they should. From what I've seen from Hamas representatives, they seem good-natured, but for some reason don't condemn the actions of their military wings nor do they admit that they don't have control over them. Hamas showed amnesty to the Fatah members after their victory, they also said that they were gonna try to free Alan Johnston from the hands of that one militant group, plus they came on TV numerous times with messages that seemed positive, but too honest for politics. So this has left me a little puzzled.
Either way, Al Qa3da have proven themselves to me to be not only stupid and inhuman, but also one of the current enemies of Islam. I would never ally myself with them nor would I encourage anyone else to do so, no matter how noble their cause might seem. Their belief system is whacked, they have strayed from Islam and their beliefs have become twisted into...something else. I don't think that there is a single organization on this planet that has Islam down to the point that I would consider allying myself with them. The Muslim Brotherhood of Egypt is close, but they're not 100% either. At least they're playing it smart and trying to do what they can diplomatically (unfortunately for them in a completely un-diplomatic country) instead of militarily. Hezbullah has also shown that they can be smart and diplomatic, and strong at the same time. Sure they've done some stupid things, but overall I think they're alright. If they worked harder on education and economy and not only focused on the political aspects of Islam, I think they could really do some good.
Skywalker
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How have they not? The fact that they use suicide attacks is one. Other than that, Islam teaches us tolerance and living in peace with our non-Muslim neighbours, and has never OK'ed the killing of civilians, which Al Qa3da are totally OK with (at least going by what we see on TV and given the fact that Al Qa3da actually exists and is not some kind of conspiracy). How is terrorizing innocent civilians for political purposes Islamic? Please provide me with any scriptural reference for this.
I know that the US is a sick country bent on globalization of their morals and culture, and not to mention their insane foreign policies, but look at the reality of the situation. They're the current superpower, so it's their right. It would be stupid to attack them militarily, because all you'll be doing is making the world see you as the bad guy, the evil scourge that must be eliminated. How does that help Islam? But should we sit back and let them do what they want with us? Heck no, but there are ways of fighting them "in style", instead of killing their civilians. They make a movie with their morals and feed it to your children, you teach your children that it's wrong and then you make one with our morals and feed it to theirs. Persist in what you're doing like they're doing now, and eventually they'll stop. Not all struggles are physical, and the hardest of them are not.
I know that the US is a sick country bent on globalization of their morals and culture, and not to mention their insane foreign policies, but look at the reality of the situation. They're the current superpower, so it's their right. It would be stupid to attack them militarily, because all you'll be doing is making the world see you as the bad guy, the evil scourge that must be eliminated. How does that help Islam? But should we sit back and let them do what they want with us? Heck no, but there are ways of fighting them "in style", instead of killing their civilians. They make a movie with their morals and feed it to your children, you teach your children that it's wrong and then you make one with our morals and feed it to theirs. Persist in what you're doing like they're doing now, and eventually they'll stop. Not all struggles are physical, and the hardest of them are not.
Nonsense. Absolute rubbish.
What is so "brave" about the pilots of the Apache helicopters? They know Palestinians weapons cannot reach them. Is this bravery?
LOL @ Cowardly.
What is so brave? I have heard of several of these choppers getting taken down and guess what they werent accompanied by innocent civilians, women or children. They arent hiding, they are right out in the open and showing exactly what side they are on and what they are fighting for rather than passing their enemy and then shooting them in the back like a coward would. Say what you want but it takes a lot of bravery to go into a foreign country that hates you, and try to police it without knowing who you are even fighting against. It takes a real coward to hide like a roach in crowds and then kill your enemy and everyone else around him, whether they are with or against you and whether they are old, young, man or woman.
LOL @ cheap cowardly guerrilla warfare
So you have to be brave to press a button on your joypad via your $5M Apache Helicopter?
By this same logic those 19 men who flew into the WTC and Pentagon must be really brave
And another thing - America has been killing innocent people for centuries. Lets not go there.
America is the biggest terrorist
By this same logic those 19 men who flew into the WTC and Pentagon must be really brave
And another thing - America has been killing innocent people for centuries. Lets not go there.
America is the biggest terrorist
"The media and politicians call what happened terrorism. This is a propagandistic rather than a descriptive term and replaces the more useful traditional phrases, guerilla action or guerilla warfare. The former places a mythical shroud around the event while the latter depicts its true nature. Guerillas do not play by the rules of state organization or military tactics. This does not make them cowardly, as some have suggested, but can make them fiendishly clever.
The essence of guerilla warfare is to attack at times and places unsuspected and return to places unknown. You can not invade the land of guerillas, you can not bomb them out of existence, you can not overwhelm them with your technological wonders."
http://www.greeninstitute.net/press.asp?rls_id=104&cat_id=32&
The essence of guerilla warfare is to attack at times and places unsuspected and return to places unknown. You can not invade the land of guerillas, you can not bomb them out of existence, you can not overwhelm them with your technological wonders."
http://www.greeninstitute.net/press.asp?rls_id=104&cat_id=32&
According to the above statement, the following must be considered cowards & dispicable, also:
1. The many European reistance organizations who used guerrilla warfare against the Nazis.
2. Our OSS & SOE, who used guerrilla warfare against the Nazi's.
3. Merrills Marauders, who used guerrilla tactics against the Japanese in South East Asia.
4. Our own Special Operators (Rangers, Green Berets, Navy Seals, Delta Force), the SAS/SBS/Royal marine Commandos, etc, who were trained in and train forces of friendly nations in guerrilla warfare.
5. The American & Philippino troops who stayed behind and used guerrilla tactics against the Japanese occupation of the Philippines.
6. Our founding fathers who used guerrilla warfare against the Bristish Empire.
7. Our CIA paramilitary teams who entered Afghanistan & Iraq.
8. The Jews of pre-1948 Israeli independence who used guerrilla tactics against the British Mandate & the Palestinians.
So you think that Hamas' goals are ok? This organization wants to wipe off Israel from the Middle East. And Hamas doesnt have military wing. Hamas is a military wing.
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Hamas is the palestinian wing of Muslim Brotherhood, so Mb supports terrorists actually.
No you have to be brave to go to war and fight your enemy while showing your face, you have to be brave to put your life on the line everyday while you stand, fly, drive, etc. in the open in enemy territory in uniform distinguishing yourself from everyone else, to make sure that if the enemy does target you he is targeting you because you are his enemy and making no mistake that you may be a civilian
It is interesting to me that you would put a smiley next to such an unislamic act of violence. It is one thing to kill in war or die in war, but to take innocent people hostage on a plane, lie to them and then murder them and 3000 other unsuspecting people is a whole other thing. The logic is not at all the same and it is very interesting that you could somehow relate the two just because they both involve flyingBy this same logic those 19 men who flew into the WTC and Pentagon must be really brave
Tell me what civilization could not be accused of this, every country and people have ugly things they would like to conceal or go back and remove from their history
Really? That is rather funny, I will admit that the current administration is not a highlight in US history, and some of the recent war crimes and ways that things have been handled during this war are a stain on our country and it will take time to rebuild the US image, but we are certainly not terrorists. More aid comes from the US than anywhere in the world, when people need medicine, food, education, etc. who do they turn too? Not the M.E., not anywhere else in fact other than the US it seems. You are welcome to attack the US gov. and the people in it and the policies if you dont like them, but dont forget what brought it to this point. We didnt ask for 9/11, we didnt ask for numerous embassy bombings they happened and now there is retaliation. There are terrorists both here in the US and the middle east, but here is the kicker, these terrorists do not represent america nor do they represent Islam, they represent the evil of mankind as a whole, and just because they may claim to be Muslim or American does not make them so, and just because they claim to be is no reason to support them.
Skywalker
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I never said that the Brotherhood is the best, nor did I say that I would ally myself with them, however, the Brotherhood is not responsible for all the actions of Hamas. It's my belief that they support them mainly for their ideals. How do we know that they fully support their methods and every single attack they've done?
Secondly, Hamas is NOT just a military wing. This is from Wikipedia:
"Since its formation in 1987, Hamas has conducted numerous social, political, and military actions. Its popularity stems in part from its welfare and social services to Palestinians in the occupied territories, including school and hospital construction. The group devotes much of its estimated $70 million annual budget to an extensive social services network, running many relief and education programs, and funds schools, orphanages, mosques, healthcare clinics, soup kitchens, and sports leagues. According to the Israeli scholar Reuven Paz "approximately 90 percent of the organization's work is in social, welfare, cultural, and educational activities"."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas