Gaza!!

[MO783]

its too hard to watch now, we need the arab countrys to do something. I hate that hosni mubarak

 

[north_malaysian]

If they're in for the gas, why did they withdraw in 2005?

Maybe because Ariel Sharon had too much falafels... and made that decision to withdraw...

 

[Najm]

Some how you still think I am pro Israel. The fact that I condemn Hamas for the 7,000+ rockets they have shot at Israel civilians does not make me pro Israel, it makes me anti terrorism.
There is no "Good" guys is this fight. Neither have peace as a primary objective and I condemn them both.

Peace...

Finally you have found a stat.....
7000+ rockets is an amazing stat, and its great to hear you anti-terrorist, but you missed the other MAIN point!!! How many civilian have died? Let me tell you at the most 13 civilians. And yes i do condemn that. I am against the killing of any innocent human being.

However being anti-terrorist for the above reasons, makes one to think if your anti-massacre, anti-using weapons of mass destruction, anti-human rights, anti-murder, anti-genocide(though which i am sure you are!)......

As during the same period, from the many raids by Israel over 520 civilians have been killed. I never said your pro-israel, but shouldn't you be giving both side of the arguments, if you against both sides? "You will never look at the other side of the coin, will you?"

The simple fact remains that you are trying to "balance" both sides, by condemning both sides "equally", simply overlooking the fact that one side have "brutally massacred", that one side raises the questions of murder and genocide,

that one side raises the questions of going to war for gaining political agenda, that one side using "defensive" war on a defenceless nation who have no navy, army or air forces, that one side keeps the other under siege, all these may make you biased, when you balance them equally.

You cannot possibly condemn both equally as you have done so far. Its simply unconscionable.

Peace...

 

[Wilma_Hum]

Najm,
As I said before

I have no intention of going point to point with you. With a 60+ year old conflict, there is an endless supply of points, for both sides.

It would be true that I do not "condemn both equally as you have done so far".
But our major difference is that I support neither and my first hope is peace.

 

[Woodrow]

Najm,
As I said before
It would be true that I do not "condemn both equally as you have done so far".
But our major difference is that I support neither and my first hope is peace.

To be honest those of us who are Muslim do not have the exact same views as a non-Muslim.

It is true the crude rockets fired from Gaza are capable of causing death however, some of us see it more as an act of defiance by vigilantes taking matters into their own hands and not as a massive attack against Israel. Anybody with some military knowledge would know that the Qassams and Katyusha rockets are not effective military weapons and highly ineffective in the manner they are deployed. The Katyusha is designed to be fired in mass barrages by the thousand to spray a small area. Firing one at a time is just a way to get people mad. The qassams are homemade and of little more use as a weapon as a fourth of July skyrocket.

To many of us the analogy is like teenagers shoot fireworks at a government entity and the government responds with a full military assault.

We tend to see this as over-retaliation. Massive Death in exchange for an attention getting act.

 

[Keltoi]

To be honest those of us who are Muslim do not have the exact same views as a non-Muslim.

It is true the crude rockets fired from Gaza are capable of causing death however, some of us see it more as an act of defiance by vigilantes taking matters into their own hands and not as a massive attack against Israel. Anybody with some military knowledge would know that the Qassams and Katyusha rockets are not effective military weapons and highly ineffective in the manner they are deployed. The Katyusha is designed to be fired in mass barrages by the thousand to spray a small area. Firing one at a time is just a way to get people mad. The qassams are homemade and of little more use as a weapon as a fourth of July skyrocket.

To many of us the analogy is like teenagers shoot fireworks at a government entity and the government responds with a full military assault.

We tend to see this as over-retaliation. Massive Death in exchange for an attention getting act.

That is true, but when an "attention getting act" kills the citizens of another state that act becomes an "act of war."

 

[Wilma_Hum]

To be honest those of us who are Muslim do not have the exact same views as a non-Muslim.

It is true the crude rockets fired from Gaza are capable of causing death however, some of us see it more as an act of defiance by vigilantes taking matters into their own hands and not as a massive attack against Israel. Anybody with some military knowledge would know that the Qassams and Katyusha rockets are not effective military weapons and highly ineffective in the manner they are deployed. The Katyusha is designed to be fired in mass barrages by the thousand to spray a small area. Firing one at a time is just a way to get people mad. The qassams are homemade and of little more use as a weapon as a fourth of July skyrocket.

To many of us the analogy is like teenagers shoot fireworks at a government entity and the government responds with a full military assault.

We tend to see this as over-retaliation. Massive Death in exchange for an attention getting act.

I find that a very sad and disheartening statement.
How can I interoperate that any way other than it is ok to shoot rockets at civilian areas that are of no military value, as long as the shooters practice the same religion as I do?
It seems one could follow that logic to justify flying airplanes into buildings.
And obviously some do. Surly you don’t.

 

[Woodrow]

I find that a very sad and disheartening statement.
How can I interoperate that any way other than it is ok to shoot rockets at civilian areas that are of no military value, as long as the shooters practice the same religion as I do?
It seems one could follow that logic to justify flying airplanes into buildings.
And obviously some do. Surly you don’t.

It is not an attempt to justify, just an explanation as to how views differ. It is wrong to shoot rockets into civilian areas, but there is a vast difference between the obsolete rockets shot by hot headed kids and the guided missiles fired back by trained militia.. True the rockets can cause death and injury, but for the most part they are just a lot of noise with little damage.

No I would not like having rockets shot at me, but hopefully I would retaliate with much less destructive fire power and not try to eradicate an entire population.

 

[Najm]

Najm,
As I said before
It would be true that I do not "condemn both equally as you have done so far".
But our major difference is that I support neither and my first hope is peace.

Peace...

Lets get this clear...

WAS THERE ANY HAMAS ROCKETS BEFORE ISRAEL BROKE THE CEASE FIRE?....

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfFMZ7Y-s_c[/media]

ANSWER : NO

Your asking for primary objective to be peace, something that Israel has been unjust of, in the peace deals, they have always layed the siege,wanting only their demands, going to war to get only their demands. If Israel have the right to defend", dont the Palestinians have the "right to defend". Its seems quite clear Hamas responding constantly, to the siege. Rockets fired at Israel, is after Israel raiding Gaza, Dont Hamas have a right to defend?

All the protest worldwide have been against(anti-war) Israel, rather than for(pro-war) Israel.

I never really got your views, on a solution yet, if you have any.

Neither maybe "good" guys, neither maybe peace as primary objective. However within the 2, Gaza is much closer to the primary objective, Gaza is much more willed at getting their rights, that's what they fight for, and through their struggle, they will ultimately win in the end.

Peace...

 

[Najm]

That is true, but when an "attention getting act" kills the citizens of another state that act becomes an "act of war."

Peace...

Laying constant siege of another state, becomes an act of war!

Peace...

 

[Suomipoika]

It is not an attempt to justify, just an explanation as to how views differ. It is wrong to shoot rockets into civilian areas, but there is a vast difference between the obsolete rockets shot by hot headed kids and the guided missiles fired back by trained militia.. True the rockets can cause death and injury, but for the most part they are just a lot of noise with little damage.

No I would not like having rockets shot at me, but hopefully I would retaliate with much less destructive fire power and not try to eradicate an entire population.

Its nevertheless really dishearthening and not to mention scary and worrisome to see people, and I cant help but to call it as the way I see it, justifying terrorism. People have really died because of these attacks by these "hot heated kids".

On a sidenote, how am I supposed to view Islam and muslims if the shooting of thousands of rockets into Israel is largely either ignored or downplayed and the only real reason I can think of why this is done is because the people doing this, those "hot heated kids" are muslims.

Not to mention the promotion of the propaganda of the evil Israelis wanting to eradicate palestinians. Latest escalation of this conflict is already twice as long as the Russia-Georgia conflict yet not until recently reaching the same casualty levels. Not forgetting lack of similar actions towards West Bank and the high volume of the humanitarian aid directed from Israel to palestinians.

 

[Najm]

Its nevertheless really dishearthening and not to mention scary and worrisome to see people, and I cant help but to call it as the way I see it, justifying terrorism. People have really died because of these attacks by these "hot heated kids".

On a sidenote, how am I supposed to view Islam and muslims if the shooting of thousands of rockets into Israel is largely either ignored or downplayed and the only real reason I can think of why this is done is because the people doing this, those "hot heated kids" are muslims.

Not to mention the promotion of the propaganda of the evil Israelis wanting to eradicate palestinians. Latest escalation of this conflict is already twice as long as the Russia-Georgia conflict yet not until recently reaching the same casualty levels. Not forgetting lack of similar actions towards West Bank and the high volume of the humanitarian aid directed from Israel to palestinians.

AsSalamOAlaikum WaRehmatuAllah WaBarkatuhu

These rockets are done in retaliation to the raids done by Israel!! Lets not Forget that everytime Israel lays a siege, people are killed, women and children are killed. And in retalisation to that, rockets are being fired!!

It would be stupid, for Hamas to stop firing rockets at this stage, as there IS a war going on. Only way to stop it is by Israel pulling out of their lands.

FiAmaaniAllah

 

[Najm]

I find that a very sad and disheartening statement.
How can I interoperate that any way other than it is ok to shoot rockets at civilian areas that are of no military value, as long as the shooters practice the same religion as I do?
It seems one could follow that logic to justify flying airplanes into buildings.
And obviously some do. Surly you don’t.

Sarah Leah Whitson, director of Human Rights said in Oct 2007:

“Israel is punishing sick civilians as a way to hurt Hamas, and that’s legally and morally wrong,” said Sarah Leah Whitson, director of Human Rights Watch’s Middle East division. “Israel remains the occupying power in Gaza despite disengagement, and thus has a legal obligation to facilitate medical care to the greatest extent possible.”

...Source...

Don't you think, the Palestinians have a right to defend? Or is that only available to Israel? Dont you think People of Palestine are terrified constantly, most are refugees, 80% of the population live of basic food. The same basic food given by aid workers, and under the blockade, these basic food are controlled, and supplied to a minimum or even less...

According to the United Nations, an average of 40 patients per day entered Israel from Gaza for medical treatment in July 2007. In September 2007, that number was down to 5.
...Source...

Patients are dead because of needing advance medical treatment, patients were not allowed out of the land for treatment. Even Spare parts, medical equipment were not allowed into Gaza!! Do you think its ok for people to have the rights taken away so severely? Are they second class?

Lets see what UN says about the daily lives of these 2nd class people....

Reported on 15 dec 2008:

The daily lives of most of 1.5 million Gazans are increasingly consumed by completing the most basic tasks,
such as collecting and storing clean water, and searching for food, fuel and other essential supplies. Many have
reported a growing sense of being trapped, physically, intellectually and emotionally.

....Source... <<< UN source

Do you think its ok for Israel to live in peace, and prison the Palestinians to rot??

Peace...

 

[Wilma_Hum]

Woodrow,
Thank you.

 

[Wilma_Hum]

Najm,
Let me try a third time. You don't seam to grasp the point.

I have no intention of going point to point with you. With a 60+ year old conflict, there is an endless supply of points, for both sides.

Also I have stated:

I'm not pro Israel

I support neither

I condemn them both

Yet it seams to you can't comprehend the fact I don't justify Israel's actions.

I want peace first, you don't.
Lets agree to disagree.

 

[Najm]

Najm,
Let me try a third time. You don't seam to grasp the point.


Also I have stated:



Yet it seams to you can't comprehend the fact I don't justify Israel's actions.

I want peace first, you don't.
Lets agree to disagree.

Peace...

Great, i understand all that except the solution. Where is it?

Lets get it right, i want peace. The peace that you want is temporary, something you cant comprehend, something is not possible. What is your understanding of peace?

For me simply the the freedom of Gaza, for the people to have the same humans rights as anywhere. Living in harmony, tranquillity, calmness, free from anxiety.

I would also like to add, i admire you persistence, attitude and calmness, it pleases me :-[

Peace...

 

[glo]

Peace...

Great, i understand all that except the solution. Where is it?

Lets get it right, i want peace. The peace that you want is temporary, something you cant comprehend, something is not possible. What is your understanding of peace?

For me simply the the freedom of Gaza, for the people to have the same humans rights as anywhere. Living in harmony, tranquillity, calmness, free from anxiety.

I would also like to add, i admire you persistence, attitude and calmness, it pleases me :-[

Peace...

I believe Wilma has mentioned previously that indeed she doesn't have a solution.
If she did, she should be working at the highest level of peace-negotiations! (Perhaps one day she will. :statisfie)

People have tried to find a solution for peace in the Middle East for decades.
Perhaps the real problem is that different groups have different 'solutions' (many of which seem to involve killing and maiming each other ), but not many people actually want to come together and find a common solution for the better of all.

It's simply human nature to feel compassion for those you 'call your own' more than for those who are 'strangers'. It is hard to look beyond one's own and see the suffering and problems of those on the other side.

That's the point Wilma is making so passionately and persistently!
We are all human, we all share the same feelings of happiness, joy, fear, pain, anger ...

To be able to look beyond racial and religious differences, and to simply see the human being in the person on the other side is a very special gift indeed! Not many of us have it.

Peace

 

['Abd-al Latif]

Gazan babies born into war

Many of the more than 40,000 pregnant women in Gaza are unable to leave their homes for medical treatment because of the Israeli onslaught and hospitals swamped with the thousands of injured.

Al Jazeera's Sherine Tadros has the story of one mother who has not seen her baby since he was born on the first day of Israel's offensive.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJaxPtoCGZM
[/media]

 

[Wilma_Hum]

Peace...

Great, i understand all that except the solution. Where is it?

Lets get it right, i want peace. The peace that you want is temporary, something you cant comprehend, something is not possible. What is your understanding of peace?

For me simply the the freedom of Gaza, for the people to have the same humans rights as anywhere. Living in harmony, tranquillity, calmness, free from anxiety.

I would also like to add, i admire you persistence, attitude and calmness, it pleases me :-[

Peace...

Do you read? Do you remember?
I have stated before, I have no solution. I just know the last 60 years is proof that violence is not it.
Peace is always temporary. It always ends.
Freedom can come after peace, freedom can not come during war.
You dream of Utopia there has never been a place "where Living in harmony, tranquillity, calmness, free from anxiety" existed longer than a fleeing moment.

Peace now.
Wilma

 

[sister herb]

No moral left with zionist terrorists!

IOF troops shell Palestinian hospital with hundreds inside

[ 15/01/2009 - 12:18 PM ]




GAZA, (PIC)-- The Israeli occupation forces on Thursday shelled a Palestinian Red Crescent hospital in Gaza city in which hundreds of patients and wounded were staying for treatment along with the medical staff and civilians who sought refuge in it.

PIC reporter said that the IOF soldiers bombarded the hospital along with the PRC offices as preliminary reports indicate that more than 700 Palestinian citizens were inside the hospital.

The PRC director warned of the serious conditions in the hospital, pointing out that the shelling was directly aimed at the hospital.

He said that fire started in the pharmacy and the second floor that comprises the hospital administration.

He condemned the IOF shelling describing it as "unjustified", and said that apparently the IOF shelling was targeting anything that moves even if they were medical or relief convoys.

http://www.palestine-info.co.uk/en/...YHCndz3zAMeqoCFdNyNSYIUoJxjinX/tg+spv6kgTgTU=