Girl kills mom in religious row

[ozzy249]

Don't be friggin stupid :rollseyes
I reckon she did it because she feared for her life. To me this seems to be the norm in the middle east.

Typical Kaffir comment. Kaffir defend other Kaffir over everything whether it be murder or any other hideous crime.

 

[- Qatada -]

In an Islamic State, the person abides by the laws of the State - the same way one should in any state. If they disagree and don't want to practise Islaam, then they can move away to another state without any threat.

 

[- Qatada -]

Also, i'm quite sad how you all want to divert from the topic to make the parents seem evil. But anyway, the justice will be settled on the Day of Judgement by Allaah, who is the All-Just.


I'll quote this article on apostasy by brother Ansar, and then i'll let the thread go back on topic. There are many other threads on apostasy in the forum already:

EDIT: This post has been moved to the beginning of the thread.


In order to understand this issue, we need to examine the Islamic law on apostasy. Since religion is looked on as a personal affair in western society, the notion of state intervention in one's personal choice would naturally seem excessive. However, from the Islamic perspective, a number of points must be observed with regard to apostasy:

1. Islam has never compelled anyone to accept the religion. Anyone who becomes a Muslim does so purely through objective study of the religion. As Allah has informed us in the Qur'an:

2:256 There is no compulsion in religion.
10:99 So would you (O Muhammad) then compel people to become believers?

Likewise, Islam encourages its followers to reflect and contemplate upon the universe around us and to ponder over the beauty of the Qur'anic message:

47:24 Do they not ponder over the Qur'an or are their hearts locked up?

51:20-21. And on earth are signs for those endowed with inner-certainty; and [likewise there are signs] in yourselves, do you not observe?

29:20 Say: "Travel through the earth and see how Allah did originate creation; so will Allah produce a later creation: for Allah has power over all things.

Thus, Islam requires that one's faith be constructed upon logical investigation and study of the universe in which we live. Through logical contemplation, one realizes the supreme authority of the Creator and the veracity of Muhammad's (saws) claim to prophethood. Thus we find that, in the history of Islam, no knowledgeable Muslim has ever left Islam. The only cases we find of former Muslims are people who were never practicing Muslims in the first place, nor did they ever have a good understanding of Islam. Yet on the other hand, the list of educated converts to Islam is immense, and it includes educated leaders such as priests, rabbis and atheists.

2. Those who have left Islam have historically fallen under three categories: those who left having never properly understood the religion often due to social circumstances, those who faked a conversion into Islam in order to undermine the Islamic community from within, and those who left to support opposing forces in battle against the Muslims. Because of the first category, Islam requires that the person who has chosen to forsake the religion be consulted with in order that his doubts may be clarified to him if there is any specific issue of confusion, or so that he may learn the proper Islamic teachings that he may otherwise have not been exposed to. As for the second and third category, this was the original reason behind the Prophet's statement on apostasy. The Qur'an records (3:72) that the Jews of Madinah decided to initiate the practice of pretending to accept Islam and then publicly declare their rejection of it, so as to destroy the confidence of the newly-converted Muslims. Thus, the Prophet Muhammad pbuh ruled that a punishment should be announced so that those who decide to accept Islam do so because of a firm conviction not in order to harm the Muslim community from within.

3. Coming to the actual law of apostasy, the Prophet Muhammad pbuh did say, in the above historical context, "Whoever replaces his religion, execute him" (Bukhari, Abu Dawud) but how exactly do we understand this statement and does it conflict with the principles of freedom? The Prophet Muhammad pbuh himself clarified this statement in another hadith narrated in Sahih Muslim where he mentioned that the one who was to be fought against was the one who "abandons his religion and the Muslim community". It should be noted that every country has maintained punishments, including execution, for treason and rebellion against the state (See Mozley and Whitley's Law Dictionary, under "Treason and Treason Felony," pp. 368-369). Islam is not just a set of beliefs, it is a complete system of life which includes a Muslim's allegiance to the Islamic state. Thus, a rejection against that would be akin to treason. Rebellion against God is more serious than rebellion against one's country. However, one who personally abandons the faith and leaves the country would not be hunted down and assassinated, nor would one who remains inside the state conforming to outward laws be tracked down and executed. The notion of establishing inquisition courts to determine peoples' faith, as done in the Spanish Inquisition, is something contrary to Islamic law. As illustrated by the historical context in which it was mandated, the death penalty is mainly for those who collaborate with enemy forces in order to aid them in their attacks against the Islamic state or for those who seek to promote civil unrest and rebellion from within the Islamic state. When someone publicly announces their rejection of Islam within an Islamic state it is basically a challenge to the Islamic government, since such an individual can keep it to themselves like the personal affair it is made out to be.

4. From Islamic history, we can gain a better understanding of how this law has been implemented. Although the Prophet Muhammad pbuh threatened the death penalty in response to the attempts against the Muslim community, no such executions took place in his time (Imam Shawkani, Nayl Al-Awtar, vol. 7, p. 192) even though there is a report that a Bedouin renounced Islam and left Madinah unharmed in his time (Fath Al-Bari vol. 4, p.77 and vol. 13 p. 170; Sahih Muslim biSharh An-Nawawi, vol. 9, p. 391). Thus, we find that context plays an important role in determining how to deal with apostates. The case of one who enlists nations to fight against the Islamic state is more serious, for example. That is why the scholars of the Hanafi school of thought felt that the punishment only applies to the male apostate and not the female apostate because the latter is unable to wage war against the Islamic state. If someone simply has some doubts concerning Islam, then those doubts can be clarified.​

So an Islamic state is certainly justified in punishing those who betray the state, committing treason and support enemy forces. As for anyone else, if they do not publicly declare their rejection of Islam, the state has no interest in pursuing them; if their case does become public, however, then they should be reasoned with and educated concerning the religion so that they have the opportunity to learn the concepts they may not have understood properly and they can be encouraged to repent.

From another of my posts:

If a predominantly Christian country were going to execute a former Christian who converted to another religion (in this hypothetical case, Islam) would you be ok with that?

As a side note, this has already happened, examples include the spanish inquisition. But on to your question...

First of all, the law on apostasy has been explained here and here. It is commonly taken out of context, but the point to note is that the Prophet Muhammad (saws) clarified that the one to be punished was the one who rebelled against the community. This is quite similar to state laws on treason. A state is justified in taking action against those who pose a significant threat. But the idea of setting up an inquisition to examine the beliefs of the people is against Islamic teachings, so someone who personally changes their religious convictions will be insignificant in the eyes of the state. It is the one who publically announces his rebellion, stirring civil unrest, who must be opposed. While the Christian inquisitions were bent on examining (through the use of torture) the beliefs of those Muslims and Jews who outwardly professed conversion to Christianity, in an Islamic state, someone who even outwardly professes acceptane of Islam is left alone because they cause no harm to society, and the Islamic state is only interested in the security of its society.

If someone poses a threat to a state's security, then they are justified in taking action against them. But if someone changes their personal religious views, then it is quite extreme for the state to attempt to pry into the hearts of its citizens to determine their faith and punish them.

_______

Material from this post has been added to this article:
http://www.load-islam.com/artical_d...ection=wel_islam&subsection=Misconceptions#28


​

 

[islamirama]

Girl kills mom in religious row
24/05/2007

Sydney - A teenage girl who wanted to convert from Islam to Christianity stabbed her parents after blindfolding them on the pretext of presenting surprise gifts, an Australian court heard on Thursday.

The girl's mother died in the attack - during which 17-year-old Kaihana Tahseen Hussain shouted "Die both of you now" - her father told Southport Magistrates Court.

Bangladesh-born Muhammad Hussain, 49, said that after he and his wife were blindfolded in their bedroom, he felt something penetrate his stomach, followed by the warm sensation of blood flowing from the wound.

"Then she told me: 'This is your surprise,'" he said.

Hussain said the attack came two days after his wife and daughter had returned from a trip to Bangladesh and during the Islamic observance of Ramadan, the national AAP news agency reported.

He told the court he heard his wife say: "Tahseen has stabbed me. She was screaming: 'I'm dying' in Bengali."

The girl twice shouted "Die both of you now" - once in English and a second time in Bengali, Hussain said.

"In response, I told her: 'What mistake we have done for us to die?'"

Disorientated and losing blood, Hussain said he went for help outside, struggling in the process with his daughter as he went to open the front door.

Under cross-examination by defence lawyer Dennis Lynch, Hussain said he was "very angry" his daughter planned to convert from Islam to Christianity and disapproved of her relationship with an Australian university student.

The teenager frequently broke down in tears while her father gave evidence.

The hearing to decide whether she should face trial will resume in October.

Source



I think this shows how important it is to raise our children up with a fear of Allah from a young age.

I've read this on other forum and 10 pages of comments on there as well, the comments on there were much better than what i've seen here.

The girl was a maniac who killed her parents savagely for sake of her boyfriend. You are really stupid if you think she killed them "becuase they would kill her", she lived in australia and knew well what she could or could not do and how safe she was. She also had the opportunity to run away with the boyfriend. But she instead decideds to kill her own parents and probably wanted to take over their live savings and stuff and marry the boy friend and live in that house. This is just one sick crazy girl that needs to be locked up for life.

 

[Suomipoika]

Am i responsible for that?

What am I supposed to say here really? You are a mod that deleted a post and asked a question seemingly in defence of that action whether or not its right to let someone make others believe what he says is true.

she was scared her parents would kill her? what fear exactly?

In truth there really isnt enough information, whether she was blinded over love or if she was afraid of something. Its just guessing, from everyone.

 

[- Qatada -]

Suomipoika, you know that your statement was nothing about the deleted posts.

Look at the quote which i placed the statement in.


And the argument for those who say she was 'scared' - i'm sure she wouldn't be, since they sent her to uni, she started a relationship with a guy, if she had enough 'freedom' to be able to do that, i'm sure it was easy for her to simply run away.

 

[barney]

England, stop acting like you know it all. You're far from it, and so is barney. You know what i said to him when i deleted his post? I said an Islamic State is required to apply Islamic law, and there is no Islamic State today as it's been Prophecised.

If you really want to act like you're some next level hero who 'knows it all', then give it up, cuz you're not doing a good job of it here.



Regards.

Yup , he did PM me that.

Well Afganistan set itself up as a islamic state, somalia tried and for a short while was, and Iraq is probably going to be the next.

You dont have to have a "Islamic State" for "Islamic Law" to occour. Sure you could argue that it's not "really Islamic Law", because some prophecy hasnt happened (yet). thats not going to bring back the heads of all the dead apostates.

Basically Apostacy and its penaltyis something that "Moderate" Muslims are very very embarrassed about. It's easier to just ignore it or pass it off as something theoretical. It's happening today. Debate it and deal with it.

 

[- Qatada -]

Yup , he did PM me that.

Well Afganistan set itself up as a islamic state, somalia tried and for a short while was, and Iraq is probably going to be the next.

You dont have to have a "Islamic State" for "Islamic Law" to occour. Sure you could argue that it's not "really Islamic Law", because some prophecy hasnt happened (yet). thats not going to bring back the heads of all the dead apostates.

Basically Apostacy and its penaltyis something that "Moderate" Muslims are very very embarrassed about. It's easier to just ignore it or pass it off as something theoretical. It's happening today. Debate it and deal with it.

Those who follow the Qur'an and Sunnah according to the understanding of the Prophet and his companions, they are the moderate ones:

Abû Hurayrah relates that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said “This religion is easy. No one becomes harsh and strict in the religion without it overwhelming him. So fulfill your duties as best you can and rejoice. Rely upon the efforts of the morning and the evening and a little at night and you will reach your goal.” [Sahîh al-Bukharî]

​

Anyone who opposes them are infact the extreme ones since they are leaning towards another extreme which doesn't have any basis in Islaam.


I've also stated:

In an Islamic State, the person abides by the laws of the State - the same way one should in any state. If they disagree and don't want to practise Islaam, then they can move away to another state without any threat.

A person doesn't need to be killed if they hide their apostasy, so they don't need to worry if they conceal it - unlike the US where you can be killed even if you deny the fact that you commited treason - and get killed for it. However, in the hereafter there is a great punishment for the disbelievers, and a great reward for the believers. And no-one will be dealt with unjustly.

And (remember) when your Lord proclaimed: "If you give thanks (by accepting Faith and worshipping none but Allâh), I will give you more (of My Blessings), but if you are thankless (i.e. disbelievers), verily! My Punishment is indeed severe." [Qur'an 14: 7]


​

Now back to the topic insha Allaah. Any posts about apostasy will be deleted after this.

 

[England]

Typical Kaffir comment. Kaffir defend other Kaffir over everything whether it be murder or any other hideous crime.

And the same goes the other way round. I'm just not going to judge on it as like I said, she knows her parents more than I. I've heard so many similar stories like it. It's not for us to judge...

 

[vpb]

Typical Kaffir comment. Kaffir defend other Kaffir over everything whether it be murder or any other hideous crime.

true. very true,

 

[- Qatada -]

Remember that not all disbelievers are harsh against the believers though

Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just.

Allah only forbids you, with regard to those who fight you for (your) Faith, and drive you out of your homes, and support (others) in driving you out, from turning to them (for friendship and protection). It is such as turn to them (in these circumstances), that do wrong.


[Qur'an 60: 8-9]​

 

[England]

No it wasn't It just shows to what extent a muslim would go to keep his daughter within the faith and this, even in our own continent, Europe. Even In England. That is why I won't judge this incident. Let "Allah" do it :rollseyes
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/02/21/nmuslim21.xml

 

[vpb]

just bc it says Pakistani does it mean he has to be a muslim? or what he does is defenitily in accordance with Islamic teachings?? and Telegraph can't wait to find someone from pakistan or saudi arabia or these countries, imiddiately to put the "muslim" sticker on them.

 

[- Qatada -]

Thanks, and the guy really did an islamic thing by commiting suicide right?


Trust me i can name maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaany things which are done by 'non muslims' and then say that everyone non muslim is like that. But the praise is for Allaah i'm not that low.



Regards.

 

[Rafeeq]

this is tregic story.
Ina Lillahe Wa Ina Elehe Rajeoon

 

[England]

just bc it says Pakistani does it mean he has to be a muslim? or what he does is defenitily in accordance with Islamic teachings?? and Telegraph can't wait to find someone from pakistan or saudi arabia or these countries, imiddiately to put the "muslim" sticker on them.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/11/02/narson102.xml

It shows that he was in fact muslim.

 

[vpb]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../narson102.xml

It shows that he was in fact muslim.

who says so? Telegraph is good enough to define if someone's a muslim???????? dude are you ignorant or you have lost your bicycle? you don't judge Islam based on some people just bc they say "i'm a muslim". Should I not buy a product of Microsoft just bc one of their developers commited a crime in his personal life?

 

[Suomipoika]

Suomipoika, you know that your statement was nothing about the deleted posts.

Look at the quote which i placed the statement in.

There are dozens of posts that are made in the same manner than what barney posted, yet they are not deleted. This is what you said which I was originally replying, because I thought that was said in defense of deleting barneys post:

So if he was so knowledgable and so wise, why is he making such a statement? Infact, why is he acting like he's some form of authority to even bring forth 'evidences' if he doesn't even understand their contexts or even the basics!?


Do you think it's right to let someone continue making others believe that what he's saying is true? Would you let me be a spokesperson for a government when i don't even belong to that country, yet alone be a leader of it?

Me:

But thats how the arguements are made in these forums.

Just look any other thread, they are filled with articles from "nutjob-dot-com" by people who hate USA, Israel and everything from West from the bottom of their little hearts, yet they speak like they know who rule these countries behind the secret closets and how these countries are doing this and that for oil and imperialism. Page after page of utter garbage and they are given the right to make people think what they say is true.

You, I left the bits about media away, and really answered to the first question:

Am i responsible for that? Infact the media does more of a 'good job' of that to spoon feed the people to think that Islaam is evil, so the public follows them in that without wanting to look at the true teachings.


Did you know that in Islaam the women, children, seniors, those who worship in monasteries etc. can't be killed in war? I'm sure the media never taught that about Islaam, but since the 'media knows better' - they can portray it in any way they want? I'm sure you agree that no-one should do that.

Infact, some people are influenced by the media soo much that they said in this thread that they never felt sad for the parents (but i deleted that so it doesn't cause more controversy) - why is that? I'm sure if a christian parent was killed, it was because the child was 'taught to be a fanatic muslim and influenced'? When in reality we are supposed to respect and treat our parents with care, even if they're not muslim!


I think you'll notice it's done by one side mainly (the media), some of the common people follow them in that, and some muslims get defensive and may argue back without clearing up the misconceptions.

Me:

What am I supposed to say here really? You are a mod that deleted a post and asked a question seemingly in defence of that action whether or not its right to let someone make others believe what he says is true.

If there was a misunderstanding, I apologize.

 

[- Qatada -]

Okay, i understand Suomipoika. Thanks for the clarification. I guess i don't delete alot of the posts here since i don't always be in this World Affairs section.



Regards.

 

[England]

who says so? Telegraph is good enough to define if someone's a muslim???????? dude are you ignorant or you have lost your bicycle? you don't judge Islam based on some people just bc they say "i'm a muslim". Should I not buy a product of Microsoft just bc one of their developers commited a crime in his personal life?

Who said I judged Islam? It's not Islam that matters. It's the actions of its people that matter There are alot of people from the middle east that are so radical they would kill for their religion. In some cases, their own families. You know that it's true. Whether it's "Islamic" is irrelevant. As you lot have said over and over again, it's the culture.