Guru Nanak Dev Ji a Muslim....?

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/Peace

...
he also visited many buddist and hindu religious places, does this make him buddist and hindu aswell??

Only Muslims are allowed to enter holy Kaaba. So ,if he really went there , it means he embraced Islam unless he hide his identity or lied to Muslims. It's hard to believe that a respected person like him did any of this or may be , he did not go there at all.

 

[cat eyes]

do sikhs believe in any of the holy prophets?

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/Peace

... guru nanak dev ji said that if that is the case then move my feet to the side where there is no god.

I read that he went to a hindu's holy place where all were throwing water towards a specific side but Guru Nanak did the opposite. When asked the reason, he said something like that show me a way where God is not present. Anyway , Muslims don't believe that God resides inside the Kaaba.

Earlier several Sikhs told us holy kaaba moved around the Guru ji's feet. If really Sikhs or Hindus can talk to Guru ji , easy solution to stop the dispute is to ask him directly - if he really went to Macca , why , how ( as a Muslim or disguised himself as a Muslilm ) and what happened there really.

 

[Fishman]

Salaam/Peace




Only Muslims are allowed to enter holy Kaaba. So ,if he really went there , it means he embraced Islam unless he hide his identity or lied to Muslims. It's hard to believe that a respected person like him did any of this or may be , he did not go there at all.

Before modern oil wealth and fascist Saudi takfiris, it wasn't exactly hard for somebody who wasn't a Muslim to enter Makkah. Guru Nanak Dev Ji had a beard, he wore clothes similar to those of Muslims and his beliefs were pretty similar too. It would take some kind of serious inquistion to stop somebody like him getting in, which they didn't have in those days.

Muslims don't believe that God resides inside the Kaaba

.
Muslims still regard it as the House of Allah in a metaphoric sense though. And some rather confused Muslims think that Allah is up in the sky directly above the Kaaba anyway.

Earlier several Sikhs told us holy kaaba moved around the Guru ji's feet. If really Sikhs or Hindus can talk to Guru ji , easy solution to stop the dispute is to ask him directly - if he really went to Macca , why , how ( as a Muslim or disguised himself as a Muslilm ) and what happened there really.

You could just read about it instead. It was a pretty simple matter to get into Makkah in those days, as I said above. True, Francis Burton needed to go to extreme lengths, but he was a western Christian and therefore appeared very different to a Muslim and would have aroused suspicions. Guru Nanak Dev Ji, on the other hand, didn't.

 

[suki233]

Salaam/Peace




Only Muslims are allowed to enter holy Kaaba. So ,if he really went there , it means he embraced Islam unless he hide his identity or lied to Muslims. It's hard to believe that a respected person like him did any of this or may be , he did not go there at all.

I think I mentioned before to read on this link about why and how guru nanak went to mecca.

http://searchsikhism.com/islam2.html

 

[Charzhino]

do sikhs believe in any of the holy prophets?

No Abrahamic prophet is mentioned in the Guru Granth Sahib apart from Muhammed and Adam. It doesn't really matter to a Sikh if they believe in a prophet or not that was sent to a particular group of people, the main focus is attention to God.

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/Peace

I think I mentioned before to read on this link about why and how guru nanak went to mecca.

http://searchsikhism.com/islam2.html

It's a long article and sadly I don't have patience to read the details. Few lines : ....[FONT=&quot]Guru Ji wore Muslim clothes and wore a style of turban that Muslim priests wear. This made him look like a Muslim priest. He always carried His scripture with Him......[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Muslims thought He was carrying a copy of Quran. In fact, he was not. It was the only way to get in. [/FONT]

My question is why a respected person like him cheated Muslim ? If he was not a Muslim , why he wore dress like Muslims and entered their holy place when he knew that according to holy Quran , non-Muslims are not allowed to enter there. What right he had to disguised himself as a Muslim ?

behold the miracle, the whole of Mecca seemed to be revolving. All got surprised and they all bowed.

There are many weak faith Muslims like me . If our holy Kaaba started moving around a non-Muslim , after seeing that many ( minimum thousands ) Muslims surely have left Islam. Do u know any convert story of Muslims to Hinduism or Sikhism after this incident ?

he left his slippers which the priest kept inside Mecca that time.

It's hard to believe. Muslims enter in to any mosque removing sliipers/ shoes. This article claims that Muslims kept slippers of a non-Muslims inside the kaaba ???? I don't think , Muslims were that liberal ever.

So , again my request to hindus and Sikhs who talk to Guru Nanak ji often or regularly , pl. ask him what happened there .

 

[Fishman]

It's a long article and sadly I don't have patience to read the details. Few lines : ....[FONT=&quot]Guru Ji wore Muslim clothes and wore a style of turban that Muslim priests wear. This made him look like a Muslim priest. He always carried His scripture with Him......[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Muslims thought He was carrying a copy of Quran. In fact, he was not. It was the only way to get in. [/FONT]

My question is why a respected person like him cheated Muslim ? If he was not a Muslim , why he wore dress like Muslims and entered their holy place when he knew that according to holy Quran , non-Muslims are not allowed to enter there. What right he had to disguised himself as a Muslim ?

Because they wouldn't let him in otherwise. If I shaved my beard and took off my Topi, I could infiltrate quite a lot of places where I would be very unwelcome normally, and let them hear a good message. Would that make me a bad or dishonest person?

There are many weak faith Muslims like me . If our holy Kaaba started moving around a non-Muslim , after seeing that many ( minimum thousands ) Muslims surely have left Islam. Do u know any convert story of Muslims to Hinduism or Sikhism after this incident ?

The article says that the Muslims who saw the miracle regarded the Guru as a Pir (which won't go down well here), and greatly respected him. They believed that his teachings fitted with Islam, and didn't need to leave the faith.

It's hard to believe. Muslims enter in to any mosque removing sliipers/ shoes. This article claims that Muslims kept slippers of a non-Muslims inside the kaaba ???? I don't think , Muslims were that liberal ever.

He didn't go inside the Kaaba, nowhere does the article say so. And even if he did, he wouldn't have had to have been wearing the slippers there for the 'priest' to keep them.

As for the slippers being kept inside the Kaaba:
1. Nowhere does the article state that.
2. The Sandals and other artefacts of the Prophet (peace be upon him) are kept in Mosques and Mazaars in different places. The slippers of a 'Pir' would likely have been given similar respect.

 

[Muslim Woman]

Would that make me a bad or dishonest person?

If u know there is a holy temple / place of Hindus or Buddists or Sikhs and according to their holy books, Muslims are not allowed to enter there , then u must not hide ur identity to enter there.

It will hurt their feelings and if they catch u , it may create unrest between people of the two faiths. U can preach outside the holy area.

The article says that the Muslims who saw the miracle regarded the Guru as a Pir (which won't go down well here), and greatly respected him.

So , u believe holy kaaba moved around a non-Muslims feet ? To my knowledge , holy kaaba never moved for any Prophet pbut , how come Muslim's holiest mosque did so for a non-Muslim ?


.

As for the slippers being kept inside the Kaaba:
1. Nowhere does the article state that.
.

sorry I mixed up this article with other article I read before where it stated that slipppers were kept inside the Kaaba .

I browse now and found this : The Guru gave him his pair of sandals. They were respectfully kept in the Kaaba for some time.

http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Guru_Nanak_in_Mecca

I never heard that sandals of any Pir or even sandals of Prophet Muhammed pbuh were kept inside the mosque. Since when Muslims became so liberal to kept sandals of a non-Muslims in the Kaaba ?

 

[Charzhino]

If u know there is a holy temple / place of Hindus or Buddists or Sikhs and according to their holy books, Muslims are not allowed to enter there , then u must not hide ur identity to enter there.

It will hurt their feelings and if they catch u , it may create unrest between people of the two faiths. U can preach outside the holy area.

According to Guru Nanak, everyone had a right to believe in God, no one religion had a monopoly over him. He visisted Buddhist shrines, Hindu temples and of course the Muslim pilgramage site, because he wanted to spread his message. There is a story of him joining in the Salat prayer in a Mosque when requested by a Shaikh which he accepted, because he would enjoy and fully particpate in places and acts of worhsip where God was rememebred, regardless of the religion.

Since he was going to Mecca, he would carry the Quran around with him which he had studied and read extensivly, as well as dressing in typical Muslim clothes with his various Muslim companions. So it was not exatcly hard to enter Mecca in the 14/15th century under this condition.

:
So , u believe holy kaaba moved around a non-Muslims feet ? To my knowledge , holy kaaba never moved for any Prophet pbut , how come Muslim's holiest mosque did so for a non-Muslim ?

We don;t know whether it occured but it doesn't matter if it did or not, the key point in the story is the message behind it. It could be metaphorical/allergorical or literal but the message is still the same.

 

[Fishman]

If u know there is a holy temple / place of Hindus or Buddists or Sikhs and according to their holy books, Muslims are not allowed to enter there , then u must not hide ur identity to enter there.

It will hurt their feelings and if they catch u , it may create unrest between people of the two faiths. U can preach outside the holy area.

What Charzhino said.

So , u believe holy kaaba moved around a non-Muslims feet ? To my knowledge , holy kaaba never moved for any Prophet pbut , how come Muslim's holiest mosque did so for a non-Muslim ?


.

Allah does what He wills.

sorry I mixed up this article with other article I read before where it stated that slipppers were kept inside the Kaaba .

I browse now and found this : The Guru gave him his pair of sandals. They were respectfully kept in the Kaaba for some time.

http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Guru_Nanak_in_Mecca

This seems quite a decent website.

I never heard that sandals of any Pir or even sandals of Prophet Muhammed pbuh were kept inside the mosque.

And you have nothing to prove that relics haven't been kept in the Kaaba in the past. Which brings us to an impasse.

Since when Muslims became so liberal to kept sandals of a non-Muslims in the Kaaba ?

The people of Makkah didn't think he was a non-Muslim, they thought he was a Pir.

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/Peace

According to Guru Nanak, everyone had a right to believe in God, no one religion had a monopoly over him.

Of Course but it does not mean that if Muslims believe God forbids non-Muslims to enter in to their holiest mosque , one should disguised himself as a Muslim to go there. Other mosques are open for all. Now a days , for safety reason , holy mosque at Madina is only reserved for Muslims.

There is a story of him joining in the Salat prayer in a Mosque when requested by a Shaikh

as already stated , other mosques are open for all. Prophet Muhammed pbuh allowed Christians groups to stay at Madina mosque . They were there for 3 days and nights. Only exception is holy kaaba.

Since he was going to Mecca, he would carry the Quran around with him which he had studied and read extensivly,

the link one posted says he was carrying his own scripture , not the holy Quran- [FONT=&quot]He always carried His scripture with Him......[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Muslims thought He was carrying a copy of Quran. In fact, he was not. It was the only way to get in. [/FONT]


Fishman : Allah does what He wills.

Most probably , you are the only Muslim in this world who believes holy kaaba moved around a non-Muslims feet. How come , this miracle is not reported by any Muslim but found in Sikh's sites only ? Bad Muslims are hiding this miracle from others ?? yak :heated:

 

[Charzhino]

Salaam/Peace
Of Course but it does not mean that if Muslims believe God forbids non-Muslims to enter in to their holiest mosque , one should disguised himself as a Muslim to go there. Other mosques are open for all. Now a days , for safety reason , holy mosque at Madina is only reserved for Muslims.
As already stated , other mosques are open for all. Prophet Muhammed pbuh allowed Christians groups to stay at Madina mosque . They were there for 3 days and nights. Only exception is holy kaaba.

Why what's the difference? What make's one more sacred ground than the other than one non-muslim cannot enter?

the link one posted says he was carrying his own scripture , not the holy Quran- [FONT=&quot]He always carried His scripture with Him......[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Muslims thought He was carrying a copy of Quran. In fact, he was not. It was the only way to get in. [/FONT]

I don't know about the accuracy of that website, the Sikh scripture wasn't formed until after Guru Nanaks death, he was most likely carrying the Quran.

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/ Peace

Why what's the difference? What make's one more sacred ground than the other than one non-muslim cannot enter?
.

We believe , holy Quran is the final holy book of God Almighty. We must obey His all commands including this : O you who believe, indeed the Mushrikoon are unclean so do not let them approach al-Masjid al-Haraam after this year [at-Tawbah: chapter 9 , verse 28]




a related link:
Dr. Zakir Naik - Question Hour
Islamic Voice - DHU'L QADAH / DHU'L HAJJ Why the non-Muslims are not permitted to enter the holy cities of Makkah and Madinah?

Shah Alam Makandar, Belgaum, alam_mak@rediff mail.com ​

Ans. It is true that non-Muslims are not allowed in the holy cities of Makkah and Madinah, by law. The following points will serve to elucidate the possible reasoning behind such a restriction.





1. All citizens are not permitted in the cantonment area





I am a citizen of India. Yet, I am not permitted to enter certain restricted areas like the cantonment. In every country there are certain areas where a common citizen of that country cannot enter.



Only a citizen who is enrolled in the military or those who are connected with the defence of the country are allowed in the cantonment area. Similarly Islam is a Universal Religion for the entire world and for all human beings. The cantonment areas of Islam are the two holy cites of Makkah and Madinah. Here only those who believe in Islam and are involved in the defence of Islam i.e. the Muslims are allowed.





It would be illogical for a common citizen to object to the restriction on entering a cantonment area. Similarly it is not appropriate for non-Muslims to object to the restriction on them to enter Makkah and Madinah


.
2. Visa to enter Makkah and Madinah





a. Whenever a person travels to a foreign country, he has to first apply for a visa i.e. the permission to enter that country. Every country has its own rules, regulations and requirements for issuing a visa. Unless their criteria are satisfied they will not issue a visa.





b. One of the countries, which are very strict in issuing a visa, is the United States of America, especially when issuing visas to citizens of the third world. They have several conditions and requirements to be fulfilled before they issue a visa.





c. When I visited Singapore, it was mentioned on their immigration form - death to drug traffickers. If I want to visit Singapore I have to abide by the rules. I cannot say that death penalty is a barbaric punishment. Only if I agree with their requirements and conditions will I be permitted to enter the country.





d. The Visa - The primary condition required for any human being to enter Makkah or Madina is to say with his lips, 'La ila ha illallah Muhammad ur Rasulullah' which means 'there is no God but Allah and Muhammed (pbuh) is His Messenger.'





http://www.islamicvoice.com/february.2004/zakir.htm

 

[جوري]

Makkah and Medina aren't a tourist attraction, perhaps that is the difference.. people go on waiting lists for years and save their pennies to make this last religious rite, and still every year it is very crowded, I can't think of a single good reason why non-Muslims should be allowed there?
exactly what are you looking for? if you are not going to perform an actual pillar of the religion then you have no use whatsoever being there.. you want to visit a mosque then any regular mosque is open for you, the same rituals and sermons (with variations in subject) occur in all of them.. Unless you are a Muslim pilgrim who can afford to make this last religious rite then you are forbidden from entry if nothing else then for mere practical reasons, and we shouldn't have to be made to explain them as it is common sense...

thank you sr. Muslim woman, may Allah swt bestow his peace and blessings upon you..

:wa:

 

[One Man Army]

Vaheguru ji ka khalsa, Vaheguru ji ki fateh

id like to start by saying im glad to see a constructive conversation taking place rather then bashing beliefs thats do not agree with our own. Iv particularly enjoyed reading fishmans posts.

its bin a while since iv posted and i havent got long to write this reply. just like to clear a few things up.

Sikhs have some very authentic sources of their history hand written by Guru Nanak jis companians and sikh scholars from the times of the gurus who are respected very highly in the sikh faith.

namedly two of these sources are Bhai Bala jis janam sakhis, and Bhai Gurdaas jis vaars.
Bhai gurdaas jis vaars can be found online. Bhai bala ji was Guru Nanak jis companian as well as the muslim bhai mardana ji.

Bhai Gurdaas has mentioned the carrying of a scripture by Guru Nanak ji, This was not the holy Quran, but was the first original additon of the devine scritpure of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. Guru Nanak ji wrote the revalations he recieved in this book. Heres bhai gurdaas jis account of events:

Donning blue attire then Baba Nanak went to Mecca.
He held staff in his hand, pressed a book under his armpit, caught hold of a metal pot and mattress.
Now he sat in a mosque where the pilgrms (hajis) had gathered.
When Baba (Nanak) slept in the night spreading his legs towards the alcove of mosque at Kaba,
the qazi named Jivan kicked him and asked who was this infidel enacting blasphemy.
Why this sinner is sleeping his legs spread towards God, Khuda.
Catching hold of the legs he lynched (Baba Nanak) and lo and behold the miracle, the whole of Mecca revolved (around Guru Nanak ji feet).
All bowed in amazement
Qazi and maulvis got together and began discussing religion.
A great fantasy has been created and no one could understood its mystery.
They asked Baba Nanak to open and search in his book whether Hindu is great or the Muslim.
Baba replied to the pilgrim hajis, that, without good deeds both will have to weep and wail.
By being a Hindu or a Muslim one can not get accepted in the court of the Lord.
As the colour of safflower is impermanent and is washed away in water, likewise the colours of religiosity are also temporary.
(Followers of both the religions) In their expositions, denounce Ram and Rahim (Muhammad Sahib).
The whole of the world is following the ways of Satan.(33)


The book wasnt the quran as previously mentioned. I will post more later, run out of time, lunch break over! sorry

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/Peace

.... the whole of Mecca revolved (around Guru Nanak ji feet).
All bowed in amazement

All Muslims bowed to Guru Nanak ? :hmm:

 

[Muslimlearner]

Is there a historical evidence for this stories ??

 

[SQUID]

Vaheguru ji ka khalsa, Vaheguru ji ki fateh


Sikhs have some very authentic sources of their history hand written by Guru Nanak jis companians and sikh scholars from the times of the gurus who are respected very highly in the sikh faith.



Donning blue attire then Baba Nanak went to Mecca.
He held staff in his hand, pressed a book under his armpit, caught hold of a metal pot and mattress.
Now he sat in a mosque where the pilgrms (hajis) had gathered.
When Baba (Nanak) slept in the night spreading his legs towards the alcove of mosque at Kaba,
the qazi named Jivan kicked him and asked who was this infidel enacting blasphemy.
Why this sinner is sleeping his legs spread towards God, Khuda.
Catching hold of the legs he lynched (Baba Nanak) and lo and behold the miracle, the whole of Mecca revolved (around Guru Nanak ji feet).
All bowed in amazement
Qazi and maulvis got together and began discussing religion.
A great fantasy has been created and no one could understood its mystery.
They asked Baba Nanak to open and search in his book whether Hindu is great or the Muslim.
Baba replied to the pilgrim hajis, that, without good deeds both will have to weep and wail.
By being a Hindu or a Muslim one can not get accepted in the court of the Lord.
As the colour of safflower is impermanent and is washed away in water, likewise the colours of religiosity are also temporary.
(Followers of both the religions) In their expositions, denounce Ram and Rahim .
The whole of the world is following the ways of Satan.(33)


The book wasnt the quran as previously mentioned. I will post more later, run out of time, lunch break over! sorry

kindly provide online source of this !

 

[Islam-Sikhism]

Asalaamu 'alaikum,

Please visit our website and let everyone know about it since it specifically deals with Sikhism, its theology, soteriology, historicity, etc.

http://www.islam-sikhism.info

wa salaam