Hamas has released a copy of the letter captured IDF soldier Gilad Shalit

[Keltoi]

So what? It is a demonstration of how we VALUE our living. Nick Berg could have lived, you know. The only reason he's dead is because of Bush's arrogant pride! All they were asking for was the release of their women! How would that have changed the course of the **** war? How will any of the exchanges stop the military strikes... by either side? They don't. It's just being fair.

The Ninth Scribe

Oh please. Usually your posts are amusing to me because they are so humorously delusional, so I just chuckle and move on.

However, I find it sickening that in your delusional mind you see fit to justify the barbaric murder of Nick Berg. We both know why he was killed, and it had nothing to do with the "release of their women". Making serial killer snuff films of people getting their heads sawed off on video tape was all the rage with your little pious Al-Qaeda crew. "God is Great!" remember? Let's see what justifications you have for Daniel Pearl, Kim Sung Ill, Patterson, and the others?

I'll tell you why they died. Because they were easy prey. They weren't soldiers, they didn't have a chance to fight back(expecially with their legs and hands tied) and your little hero Zarqawi got off on it. Spare me your ramblings about the value of human life.

 

[SixTen]

So what? It is a demonstration of how we VALUE our living. Nick Berg could have lived, you know. The only reason he's dead is because of Bush's arrogant pride! All they were asking for was the release of their women! How would that have changed the course of the **** war? How will any of the exchanges stop the military strikes... by either side? They don't. It's just being fair.

The Ninth Scribe

Umm, since when does Bush not releasing prisoners, end up being Nick Bergs responsibility - and that his life can be taken for what you see as someone elses doing? Just me confused or? I would hate that I am prisoned and killed for something I had nothing to do with.

 

[Eeman]

I dont know what you guys are debating about.
what isreal and palestine are doing is WRONG!!!
and im not gonna stick up for palestine just cos they are muslims!!!
no innocent civilian be it old man or woman, a mother or a father, a young man or a young woman, a little girl or a little boy regardless of age, gender, or RELIGION deserves to be held captive and imprisoned cos the governments and extreme groups want their way!!!

What have these innocent people done to be their victims???
so as it goes for that poor little gilad or giad, and those 1000 animas and ahmads or whatever... THEY SHOULD BE FREED AND NOT USED AS WAR TOOLS!!! used by tyrants and oppressors (jew and muslims) to get what they want! a piece of materialistic land!

i sincerely pray that Allah swt makes these oppressers and tyrant stop and realise! and if not then i pray that He punishes these tyrants and oppressors for each and every soul they have caused discomfort, pain, harm or sadness to.

and for the poor innocent victims i pray that Allah swt bestows His mercy and grace upon them, guides their hearts to the truth and gives them Jannah as their final destination to abide therein forever.
INSHA'ALLAH!!!

 

[arabianprincess]

yes its true its not right ... but if u think about it ITS the only way... i mean u either DIE or fight back..... so wat ever the palestine got .. they shoot n they dont have grt weapons so they dont know like where exact where it would land...... n i dont blame em .. i blame alll the muslims in the world n the presidents. for sittin n watchin them gettin killed ... n actin as if its normal....... i wish everything would end ... butttt that wont happen if we r AWAy from the religion....... n if ur far away from religion n weak... god will punish u.. n send enemies...


but as they said once hes FREE... they would kill like 10 or more ppl for him... to get back at the pali ppl... which is sad ... but may allah help us all.

 

[Ninth_Scribe]

Oh please. Usually your posts are amusing to me because they are so humorously delusional, so I just chuckle and move on.

However, I find it sickening that in your delusional mind you see fit to justify the barbaric murder of Nick Berg. We both know why he was killed, and it had nothing to do with the "release of their women". Making serial killer snuff films of people getting their heads sawed off on video tape was all the rage with your little pious Al-Qaeda crew. "God is Great!" remember? Let's see what justifications you have for Daniel Pearl, Kim Sung Ill, Patterson, and the others?

I'll tell you why they died. Because they were easy prey. They weren't soldiers, they didn't have a chance to fight back(expecially with their legs and hands tied) and your little hero Zarqawi got off on it. Spare me your ramblings about the value of human life.

My delusional mind is more in tune with the circle of life than your stagnant, static, never yeilding, mind could ever hope to be. You NEVER examine life from any other perspective other than your own. You could NEVER admit you might have been wrong in any of your predictable thought processes. You refuse to even entertain the notion that there are different people out there in this world who have different views about the great and mighty America, and you luxuriate yourself from a safe distance, never risking an involvement ~ even if it might mean you could LEARN something. You have NOTHING to offer this discussion that is any different than your other discussions. It's always about what YOU feel, what YOU think, what YOU need. Well, this isn't about YOU. It's about two branches of an ancient family tree that are suffering, quite probably from WESTERN ideals and interference! I mean, let's face it... the United States has sold more weapons to all sides of the Middle East and has raked in huge profits from that... and please don't even bother trying to tell me that the trillions in weapons was to help these countries defend themselves from Al Qaeda. You don't need 1700 war planes and stealth bombers to take out a bunch of "thugs" ~ Bush's own words.

And apart from your distaste in the idea of prisoner swaps, sorry to disappoint you, but France, Afghanistan, Italy and Israel... strongly disagree with you. So does Nick Berg's father. Maybe when it's YOUR kid who's neck is on the line, you'll change your tune, though I doubt it.

Also, regarding the "snuff" films that were streamed on the internet, I believe the "official" government that Bush installed in Iraq, is equally as guilty of this. They streamed two highly inappropriate films over the internet. I have both, btw. If that is the best of the best in Iraq's government... you have a lot of nerve to bash Zarqawi.

Nice to do the same old song and dance with you, but it's become way too predictable and I have other member on this forum to learn from.

The Ninth Scribe

 

[Ninth_Scribe]

Umm, since when does Bush not releasing prisoners, end up being Nick Bergs responsibility - and that his life can be taken for what you see as someone elses doing? Just me confused or? I would hate that I am prisoned and killed for something I had nothing to do with.

It was an offer for a swap and Nick was not an "inncocent" by stander as Bush would like Americans to believe. He was connected with the Abu Ghraib prison, and this place was found to be a pathetic institution, though there was a reluctance to take the issue seriously until well AFTER proof was leaked on the internet. Zarqawi called it a place of satanic rituals, but he never attended an American college - and therefore wasn't very familiar with the practice of hazing, not that hazing isn't vile in it's nature to begin with. Also, though much later down the road, Jill Carroll wrote in her story, bashing the Mujahideen, that women weren't even allowed to join in the battle, which raises the question (at least in my mind), why were these women being held in Abu Ghraib?

Sometimes it takes years to get a full understanding of a given incident. Most people forget and drop the ball, but I'm a bit too curious about this to lose interest.

The Ninth Scribe

 

[Ninth_Scribe]

but as they said once hes FREE... they would kill like 10 or more ppl for him... to get back at the pali ppl... which is sad ... but may allah help us all.

I'm not convinced that, once he's free, he'd kill more Palestinians. I guess it would depend on what's he's learned. Sometimes in life, we take a fall and while it's an unpleasant experience, it gives us the chance to view life from an entirely different perspective. Also, you come to appreciate things you took for granted before. If he were released, I'm fairly sure he'd return to Israel with a message. That message depends entirely on what he's learned during his two years.

I do know that when the Shahid, Abu Saleh al Ajmi, was released from Guatanamo Bay, he immediately went to Iraq for his martyrdom. I expect that was directly related to what he had learned during his stay at Gitmo. But I have read encouraging reports from people who were imprisoned by Palestinians and Iraqis, that lead me to believe they were not tortured or abused by their captors ~ and I'm very interested in these types of reports, so I tend to encourage the release of prisoners when ever I can. It's not that I'm out to bash America, but if America has gone off the rails in terms of humanity and decency, I think that needs to be addressed and first person reports from people who were detained are the only real material I have to work with.

The Ninth Scribe

 

[The_Prince]

you people disgust me. I would say a different pal prisoner will be executed daily til he was returned.

notice the mind set of this apostate, he believes that up to 900 palis many of whom could be innocent to be killed a day just for the release of an ALIVE israeli! so 900 palestinians are worth the life of one Jew who isnt even dead, but alive! and then most of you Muslims go out of your way to actually defend the rights of people like izyan saying apostates have the right to this and that! then u wonder why ur so backwards! thanks to Allah i am not in the camp that says people like izyan deserve rights, know your enemies people.

 

[Ninth_Scribe]

notice the mind set of this apostate, he believes that up to 900 palis many of whom could be innocent to be killed a day just for the release of an ALIVE israeli! so 900 palestinians are worth the life of one Jew who isnt even dead, but alive! and then most of you Muslims go out of your way to actually defend the rights of people like izyan saying apostates have the right to this and that! then u wonder why ur so backwards! thanks to Allah i am not in the camp that says people like izyan deserve rights, know your enemies people.

Well, this isn't Izyan's thread, and I didn't care for his solution either. I despise that mind-set about as much as I despise a country that forces civilians to fight the wars they start.

But ignore all this. My interest in the prisoner, Gilad Shalit, is based on the message he will return to Israel with. So far as I've counted, the prisoners that were released from Palestine and Iraq have never complained about being tortured or abused. I have six such reports and I'm going for a seventh. I plan to use these reports to fashion a complaint designed to expose U.S. policies. I won't be the one to present the finished product... there are judges and politicians here who are better for that. I'm just doing the ground work because I think it should come to light that the people the Bush administration have called "thugs" are more decent and humane than the U.S. has been.

The Ninth Scribe

 

[Keltoi]

My delusional mind is more in tune with the circle of life than your stagnant, static, never yeilding, mind could ever hope to be. You NEVER examine life from any other perspective other than your own. You could NEVER admit you might have been wrong in any of your predictable thought processes. You refuse to even entertain the notion that there are different people out there in this world who have different views about the great and mighty America, and you luxuriate yourself from a safe distance, never risking an involvement ~ even if it might mean you could LEARN something. You have NOTHING to offer this discussion that is any different than your other discussions. It's always about what YOU feel, what YOU think, what YOU need. Well, this isn't about YOU. It's about two branches of an ancient family tree that are suffering, quite probably from WESTERN ideals and interference! I mean, let's face it... the United States has sold more weapons to all sides of the Middle East and has raked in huge profits from that... and please don't even bother trying to tell me that the trillions in weapons was to help these countries defend themselves from Al Qaeda. You don't need 1700 war planes and stealth bombers to take out a bunch of "thugs" ~ Bush's own words.

And apart from your distaste in the idea of prisoner swaps, sorry to disappoint you, but France, Afghanistan, Italy and Israel... strongly disagree with you. So does Nick Berg's father. Maybe when it's YOUR kid who's neck is on the line, you'll change your tune, though I doubt it.

Also, regarding the "snuff" films that were streamed on the internet, I believe the "official" government that Bush installed in Iraq, is equally as guilty of this. They streamed two highly inappropriate films over the internet. I have both, btw. If that is the best of the best in Iraq's government... you have a lot of nerve to bash Zarqawi.

Nice to do the same old song and dance with you, but it's become way too predictable and I have other member on this forum to learn from.

The Ninth Scribe

I have alot of nerve to bash Zarqawi? No, it doesn't take alot of nerve to bash anyone who saws people's heads off on videotape. It was actually quite easy...no nerves or anything. :rollseyes

As much as I would like to comment on that bulk of self-righteous drivel it would hijack the thread. Have fun in fantasy land.

 

[MunirAhmadKamil]

Assalamu alykum,

i hope that gilad dude is okay..if the captors treat him well and all that..when hes released..MAYBE he'll say good things about palestine. Wudnt dat be a good thing?

Just a thought..please dont flame me

 

[Ninth_Scribe]

I have alot of nerve to bash Zarqawi? No, it doesn't take alot of nerve to bash anyone who saws people's heads off on videotape. :rollseyes

Ah, but you said NOTHING about the Iraqi government Bush is spending our tax dollars establishing. You've said NOTHING about all the U.S. attrocities that go on there either. You can whine all you want but I'm not buying your story. Amazing how one-sided you are - not that this has anything to do with Gilad Shalit. If the subject doesn't interest you, or you have NOTHING productive to say, why don't you back out?

The Ninth Scribe

 

[Ninth_Scribe]

Assalamu alykum,

i hope that gilad dude is okay..if the captors treat him well and all that..when hes released..MAYBE he'll say good things about palestine. Wudnt dat be a good thing?

Just a thought..please dont flame me

I have in my possession quite a number of statements made by people and reporters who were released from Palestine and Iraq. They have never said anything about being mistreated. On the contrary, one Italian reporter was treated just fine until she was released, then she was shot by U.S. soldiers. But to have this type of confirmation from a Jewish soldier (assuming it's even fair to call him that) - that would really being saying something!

For me, it would be the icing on the cake

The Ninth Scribe

 

[Keltoi]

Ah, but you said NOTHING about the Iraqi government Bush is spending our tax dollars establishing. You've said NOTHING about all the U.S. attrocities that go on there either. You can whine all you want but I'm not buying your story. Amazing how one-sided you are - not that this has anything to do with Gilad Shalit. If the subject doesn't interest you, or you have NOTHING productive to say, why don't you back out?

The Ninth Scribe

An atrocity is an atrocity. I don't justify them from any source. Using your idea of logic, I could easily justify any atrocity by making up some pointless request as the cause. The difference between my reasoning and yours is that I do not feel the need to justify any atrocity, there is no justification for serial killer style murders recorded for internet posterity, and there is no justification for what occurred at Abu Ghraib. See how easy that is? Most of those responsible for Abu Ghraib have been punished, and most of those responsible for the murder tapes are probably long past room temperature.

As for the Israeli, I do hope he is released unharmed. If not, it only hurts the Palestinian cause, not the Israelis.

 

[Ninth_Scribe]

Keltoi,

You are so naive and so pompous, it's impossible to have a discussion with you - about anything. It's so easy for you to sit in your house and whine about why others are upset about losing theirs... and we're not discussing a loss by say, Katrina or the Midwest floods or the California wildfires. We're talking about a bunch of terrorists who came in - illegally - and stole their homes. Of course, you don't actually pay attention to records, like this:

January 19, 1946 Member of Jewish underground destroyed a power station and a portion of the Central Jerusalem prison by explosives. Two persons were killed by the police..

January 20, 1946 Jewish underground members launched an attack against the British-controlled Givat Olga Coast Guard Station located between Tel Aviv and Haifa. Ten persons were injured and one was killed. Captured papers indicated that the purpose of this raid was to take revenge on the British for their seizure of the refugee ship on January 18. British military authorities in Jerusalem questioned 3,000 Jews and held 148 in custody..

April 25, 1946 Jewish underground attacked a British military installation near Tel Aviv. This group which contained a number of young girls, had as its goal the capture of British weapons. British authorities rounded up 1,200 suspects..

July 28, 1946 The British Palestine Commander, Lt. General Sir Evelyn Barker, banned fraternization by British troops with Palestine Jews whom he stated "cannot be absolved of responsibility for terroristic acts....

It continues... on and on and on...

Source: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...ory/brits.html

So I get that you have a very simplistic view of it, or our country's role in it. But, to me, and to a ton of other people and nations... this is a big deal and it's nowhere near over and done with. If you have it all settled in your mind, you have no place in this discussion.

And I'll thank you to stop wandering off the subject of this thread. This kid is caught in the middle of all this stuff you consider to be so over and done with. Now we all know you don't care about the reasons behind a Jihad. But, your views won't change the course of the wars or the outrage those people feel. To the Palestinians you're just a happy little American who doesn't have a clue what it's like to be on the receiving end the stuff our government has actively dished out to others... and you don't want one. Point taken and duly noted, so there really isn't much else for you to say here.

The Ninth Scribe

 

[Keltoi]

Keltoi,

You are so naive and so pompous, it's impossible to have a discussion with you - about anything. It's so easy for you to sit in your house and whine about why others are upset about losing theirs... and we're not discussing a loss by say, Katrina or the Midwest floods or the California wildfires. We're talking about a bunch of terrorists who came in - illegally - and stole their homes. Of course, you don't actually pay attention to records, like this:



So I get that you have a very simplistic view of it, or our country's role in it. But, to me, and to a ton of other people and nations... this is a big deal and it's nowhere near over and done with. If you have it all settled in your mind, you have no place in this discussion.

And I'll thank you to stop wandering off the subject of this thread. This kid is caught in the middle of all this stuff you consider to be so over and done with. Now we all know you don't care about the reasons behind a Jihad. But, your views won't change the course of the wars or the outrage those people feel. To the Palestinians you're just a happy little American who doesn't have a clue what it's like to be on the receiving end the stuff our government has actively dished out to others... and you don't want one. Point taken and duly noted, so there really isn't much else for you to say here.

The Ninth Scribe

What exactly are you even talking about? Do you have a problem with sticking to your own points? You bring up something that occurred in 1946...okay, so what? What is your point? Yes, I get that you are a liberal lefty who hates the U.S. and portrays the enemies of the United States as pious little angels fighting for God and their precious lot of sand. That isn't hard to figure out.

As for the Palestinians and the kidnapped Israeli soldier, I'm pretty sure we are in agreement. Letting him go is the best solution for both sides, but particularly for the Palestinians. As for whether I have sympathy for the Palestinians, yes I do. That doesn't mean I think they are "in the right" or that Hamas are heroes. Nor do I think that Israel is "in the right" or that the IDF are heroes. It is a conflict. I have sympathy for any person caught in the middle, be they Israeli or Palestinian or the news guy from channel 10.

Personally, I think you are so caught up in representing your own "fan" mentality relating to these conflicts that you have no perspective at all.

Lastly, no I don't care about the reasons for "Jihad". It doesn't matter what you call yourself or what banner you unfurl, if you kill the citizens of another country you can be prepared for alot of "dishing out" in return. It works both ways. ...and the world keeps spinning. Repeat, rinse, recycle

 

[MKE Brother]

Lastly, no I don't care about the reasons for "Jihad". It doesn't matter what you call yourself or what banner you unfurl, if you kill the citizens of another country you can be prepared for alot of "dishing out" in return. It works both ways. ...and the world keeps spinning. Repeat, rinse, recycle

In the 10 years from the last Gulf War precisely how many Iraqi citizens killed Americans prior to Bush deciding to "dish it out" to them?

 

[arabianprincess]

I'm not convinced that, once he's free, he'd kill more Palestinians. I guess it would depend on what's he's learned. Sometimes in life, we take a fall and while it's an unpleasant experience, it gives us the chance to view life from an entirely different perspective. Also, you come to appreciate things you took for granted before. If he were released, I'm fairly sure he'd return to Israel with a message. That message depends entirely on what he's learned during his two years.


actually i should have been more clear i meant the isreali goverment or there military to get back at the palestines for wat they have done .. to show they anit weak... n it happen before... so i was just sayin this wat they might do... i wasnt sayin that he personally would go n KILL.

 

[Eeman]

I cannot believe you guys are actually sitting here debating whos right and whos wrong!!!!!!!!!

for God's sake it is nothing but a piece of land!!! A worldy thing, is that land going to help the palestinian groups end up in jannah? or is it going to help the jew gov end up in jannah?
for both parties killing, torturing and causing so much pain and difficulties to innocent people and children?

 

[The_Prince]

I cannot believe you guys are actually sitting here debating whos right and whos wrong!!!!!!!!!

for God's sake it is nothing but a piece of land!!! A worldy thing, is that land going to help the palestinian groups end up in jannah? or is it going to help the jew gov end up in jannah?
for both parties killing, torturing and causing so much pain and difficulties to innocent people and children?

my sister, in Islam Muslims have a right to make Jihad for their land, and if they die for their land then they are martyrs:

Book 001, Number 0259:
Abu Huraira reported: A person came to the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) and said: Messenger of Allah, what do you think if a man comes to me in order to appropriate my possession? He (the Holy Prophet) said: Don't surrender your possession to him. He (the inquirer) said: If he fights me? He (the Holy Prophet) remarked: Then fight (with him). He (the inquirer) again said: What do you think if I am killed? He (the Holy Prophet) observed: You would be a martyr. He (the inquirer) said: What do you think of him (Messenger of Allah) If I kill him. He (the Holy Prophet) said: he would be in the Fire.

Sahih Muslim

so therefore what the Palestinians are doing, fighting and dying for their land is completly legit and is not a material war, it is Jihad and all their dead are martyrs fighting for their stolen land by the zionist flees.