Hamas leader offers truce if Israel withdraws from 1967 lands

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Keltoi said:
Let's not pretend Qassam rockets don't kill people...
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http://www.kh-uia.org.il/Crisisnew/aliyaartical2002/english/6.6.07_eng.htm
Ahh yes, theyre Symbolic. They are filled with custard.
Just because Hamas is useless at fighting, even against unarmed civilians, it dosnt mean they are not trying. They have to resort to random rocket lobbing at civilians and cowardly suicide vests on bus's , Rifles in schools etc, because they know that if they were to take on someone who could vaguely defend themselves they would end up getting hammered....yet again.

Symbolic indeed! Its amazing how far some people will strech rather than condem deliberate targeting of innocents. Or are they combatants because theyre simply Jews?
 
barney said:
Bad analogy since the IRA were not the Government of Ireland. Hamas are

Israel wont of course do that! World opinion prevents it.
I'm Trying to think of another country in the whole world that has High Explosive missiles crashing into it evry day from across a border and is reacting with the same restraint as the bloodthirsty Jews.
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I swear, you must be talking about another Israel. For, the Israel in your mind would have awarded a noble peace prize by know!
 
barney said:
http://www.kh-uia.org.il/Crisisnew/aliyaartical2002/english/6.6.07_eng.htm
Ahh yes, theyre Symbolic. They are filled with custard.
Just because Hamas is useless at fighting, even against unarmed civilians, it dosnt mean they are not trying. They have to resort to random rocket lobbing at civilians and cowardly suicide vests on bus's , Rifles in schools etc, because they know that if they were to take on someone who could vaguely defend themselves they would end up getting hammered....yet again.

Symbolic indeed! Its amazing how far some people will strech rather than condem deliberate targeting of innocents. Or are they combatants because theyre simply Jews?
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You mean like the Brave soldiers that shoot little kids throwing rocks? getta outta here with that man! I wouldn't like to imagine what would happen to the Palestinians( as if there not already being punished) if we had the likes of you in power!
 
Omar_Mukhtar said:
You mean like the Brave soldiers that shoot little kids throwing rocks? getta outta here with that man! I wouldn't like to imagine what would happen to the Palestinians( as if there not already being punished) if we had the likes of you in power!
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Did not David slay Goliath with a rock?
 
one quick question.
during the islamic conquests you muslims established an empire that spanned from spain to china...........but now when people are taking there land back you have a problem ................so please enlighten me why should we give the land that you stole from us in the first place........that we took back.
 
barney said:
http://www.kh-uia.org.il/Crisisnew/aliyaartical2002/english/6.6.07_eng.htm
Ahh yes, theyre Symbolic. They are filled with custard.
Just because Hamas is useless at fighting, even against unarmed civilians, it dosnt mean they are not trying. They have to resort to random rocket lobbing at civilians and cowardly suicide vests on bus's , Rifles in schools etc, because they know that if they were to take on someone who could vaguely defend themselves they would end up getting hammered....yet again.

Symbolic indeed! Its amazing how far some people will strech rather than condem deliberate targeting of innocents. Or are they combatants because theyre simply Jews?
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When someone occupies your land, makes you a refugee in your own land, responds with armor piercing bullets when you resist; then maybe you would be able to understand their position. You are not as naive or stupid as you are pretending to be.
 
nogod2006 said:
one quick question.
during the islamic conquests you muslims established an empire that spanned from spain to china...........but now when people are taking there land back you have a problem ................so please enlighten me why should we give the land that you stole from us in the first place........that we took back.
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Oh, GOD! You know what. Go to your Zionists chat room and have fun there but if you come here don't start crapping, alright. Here, read this and understand the Israeli-Palestinian conflict:

Palestinian-Israeli Conflict For Beginners
http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Palestine-Remembered/Story725.html
 
Keltoi said:
Let's not pretend Qassam rockets don't kill people...
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Let's not pretend that there are NOT in retaliation to Israeli aggression and terrorism. Regardless of whether it's right or wrong, you have to agree that it is human nature to respond to terror with terror, and to racism with racism, these are facts that all decent people must accept and deplore simultaneously. No matter what the circumstances are (such as the urge to seek vengeance, revenge, reprisals, etc.), targeting civilians to achieve political or military objectives, in either war or non-war situations, is terrorism.

It should be noted that the Palestinian people have been on the receiving end of Israeli terrorism (the chief aspect of which are the collective DISPOSSESSION and ETHNIC CLEANSING of 8.5 million Palestinians) for the past five decades.
 
nogod2006 said:
one quick question.
during the islamic conquests you muslims established an empire that spanned from spain to china...........but now when people are taking there land back you have a problem ................so please enlighten me why should we give the land that you stole from us in the first place........that we took back.
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who on earth is us? what stolen land are you talking about? Jews were allowed to live in the Muslims lands such as Palestine, zionists disrupted this balance by expelling thousands of people from their homes and then called russians, brits and germans, etc to come and occupy the land of palestine.....You will also find most Muslims don't live on stolen land, Pakistanis, Somalis, Indonesians, etc all live on the their ancestors. Nevertheless, if we to use this ridiclous analogy, then my friend most of the people in the world including Brits, Germans, Americans will have vacate their land, since man has been taking land from each other since the start of time!
 
hmmm5 said:
Let's not pretend that there are NOT in retaliation to Israeli aggression and terrorism. Regardless of whether it's right or wrong, you have to agree that it is human nature to respond to terror with terror, and to racism with racism, these are facts that all decent people must accept and deplore simultaneously. No matter what the circumstances are (such as the urge to seek vengeance, revenge, reprisals, etc.), targeting civilians to achieve political or military objectives, in either war or non-war situations, is terrorism.

It should be noted that the Palestinian people have been on the receiving end of Israeli terrorism (the chief aspect of which are the collective DISPOSSESSION and ETHNIC CLEANSING of 8.5 million Palestinians) for the past five decades.
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Pointing to retaliation as a justification is pointless, no pun intended. This conflict has been a cycle of retaliation since it began, from both sides. When all the pointing fingers and self-righteous indignation has been exhausted, all that is left is peace or no peace. Throwing around words like "ethnic cleansing" may sound dramatic, but in reality that is all it is. A dramatic word without any basis in reality. The words "holocaust" and "ethnic cleansing" are thrown around so much these days that they have almost lost their meaning. Many people have died, on both sides.
 
Right so first theyre harmless symbolic figureheads of "resistance", then Ok...so they MIGHT kill a FEW people, but..<insert own side of story throwing out all other possibilities>

I can sit here and say with total confidence that there are some IDF soldiers who are violent callous scum. There are Israeli policies that are provocative and barbaric. Some IDF soldiers will have deliberatly shot dead unarmed kids. They hold the same sort of respect for me as a suicide bomber. Theres no difference what weapon you use, if its a JDAM guided bomb or a Quassam wobbly rocket. All that matters is intent.

Scummy Israeli murderers, (as opposed to the real soldiers in the IDF)

Okie, Ive slagged off the Israeli's. Now is it possible for anyone to condem the palastinians in unambigious terms, without fitting in words like justified response?

Nope.
 
Omar_Mukhtar said:
Nevertheless, if we to use this ridiclous analogy, then my friend most of the people in the world including Brits, Germans, Americans will have vacate their land, since man has been taking land from each other since the start of time!
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Quite true, of course, but in claiming that it is a 'ridiculous analogy' you are committed to putting some sort of time factor on it. At what point does land cease being 'stolen'? After a generation or two? A hundred years or a few hundred years? A thousand years? Would you accept that, however long it may be, the Israeli presence will be perfectly legitimate after that time expires? It's an uncomfortable question.. and one that suggests the analogy might not be quite so 'ridiculous' after all.
 
^^The day 99% of Palestinians and other neighbouring people consider themselves as Israelis and speak adopt Jewish culture. If there was a seizable majority or even half of the population that belonged to native Indians, then today America would be a disputed land. Similarly, most of South America would be also be disputed land. It's not, because the settlers have either wiped out the indegenous, assimilated them to their culture and established cultural hegemony over large swathes of land. Jewish culture( or at least the Talmudic interpretation) is quite isolationist and clearly the state of Israel is built on the belief of cultural superiority and sheer armed force. In other words, Jewish caps aren't suddenly going to become popular fashion in the Middle East. How long that occupation can be sustained in it's current light remains to be seen...given the over reliance on military might alone...and the fact they have already withdrawn from South Lebanon and the Gaza.. ........The Chinese seem to be doing a more effective job( not praising them) of promoting their culture vis-a -vis Tibetan culture........
 
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Israel withdrew from south Lebanon and Gaza because they took control of it during a war waged against them, and occupying that territory wasn't popular with the Israeli people. They did not occupy that land in an attempt to assimilate anyone.

The Native American experience is similar, in that the tribes used terrorism(meaning the killing of civilians) in an attempt to "retaliate" against the U.S. government. All it did was give the U.S. military a free hand in its dealing with them. Meaning eradication to a large degree. When you lose the moral high ground it is almost impossible to get it back. The Palestinians have lost the moral high ground in my opinion. Now all we have is moral "low" ground on both sides.
 
Omar_Mukhtar said:
who on earth is us? what stolen land are you talking about? Jews were allowed to live in the Muslims lands such as Palestine, zionists disrupted this balance by expelling thousands of people from their homes and then called russians, brits and germans, etc to come and occupy the land of palestine.....You will also find most Muslims don't live on stolen land, Pakistanis, Somalis, Indonesians, etc all live on the their ancestors. Nevertheless, if we to use this ridiclous analogy, then my friend most of the people in the world including Brits, Germans, Americans will have vacate their land, since man has been taking land from each other since the start of time!
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well my dear son.....................its seems to me that you lack the ability to what people call " to read between the lines" and as such i shall, all in the sense of helping others, attempt to spell it out to you. so here it goes......
you(as in the muslims) took it by force.........then we took it back........and thats how the world is......so deal with it. furthermore, i would like to add that if the arabs stop blowing themselves up the jewish people would more then be happy to return the gesture and let you live in their land.
 
nogod2006 said:
well my dear son.....................its seems to me that you lack the ability to what people call " to read between the lines" and as such i shall, all in the sense of helping others, attempt to spell it out to you. so here it goes......
you(as in the muslims) took it by force.........then we took it back........and thats how the world is......so deal with it. furthermore, i would like to add that if the arabs stop blowing themselves up the jewish people would more then be happy to return the gesture and let you live in their land.
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Where were you and your Jewish scumbags(Zionists) when the blood thirsty Crusaders captured Jerusalem. Did you come to it's defense? Where were you when they slaughtered every inhabitant of the city mercilessly? Where were you? It was us Muslims as in "Salahuddin" who reconquered Jerusalem from the bloody Crusaders.

If you return the land, there would be no suicide bombings in the first place. Occupation leads to terrorism. You keep on building settlements. Where is the right of return of the refugees? 1967 borders?
 
nogod2006 said:
well my dear son.....................its seems to me that you lack the ability to what people call " to read between the lines" and as such i shall, all in the sense of helping others, attempt to spell it out to you. so here it goes......
you(as in the muslims) took it by force.........then we took it back........and thats how the world is......so deal with it. furthermore, i would like to add that if the arabs stop blowing themselves up the jewish people would more then be happy to return the gesture and let you live in their land.
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I like you views, for the man who doesn't hide his real views should be applauded. Unlike the other Zionists on this forum who hide and obsfucate around all matter of ideas, in order to justify Zionism. Nevertheless, perhaps my history isn't good, but please do explain to me, when did Muslims forcefully take Palestine from you, ie as in the Jews? I seem to remember that Jews had long split into different tribes. Didn't the Romans control Jerusalem at the time of the Muslim takeover? Moreover, when Umar Bin Khattab entered Jerusalem he gave rights for the Christians and Jews to worship peacefully in the holy city. The treaties He signed are still up in that city. Then it was the turn of the Crusaders as you that u know Salahudiin liberated the city. Thus, there is no comparison between how the Muslims took over the holy city and the way you Russians, Germans, Italians and other European Talmudists entered that particular city and the awful manner in which you treat not only the Muslims but Christians too( till this day). Indeed, justice shall come once again, and I hope that you and I live to see it!
 
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