Have you ever been in Bosnia?
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sister herb
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^^ But his relatives live in there. Their stories are as true like your words are to you. You, like he too, give to us only one side of the whole picture. It´s good to us others to see more than one side.
Mirza06
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I'd like to know the financial status of his relatives, because middle or upper class people are usually the ones that defend those thesis. Thesis that that are wrong, but are only used by wealthy people to argue, altho it's not even an argument.
Mirza06
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"First of all before the war there was no practice of Islam at all in Bosnia. The only Islam that existed was in some villages where some people held on to some sufi traditions. Overall? People didn't pray, people didn't fast, women didn't wear hijab, a man having a beard was non-existent, masajid were places for tourists, not even open for daily prayers."
Ofcourse, thanks to Allah s.w.t there was practice, that's the reason we are muslim now. It's not true that masjid were places for tourists, how can you say a lie like that? That's a complete lie since our grandparents and parents had religious classes in masjid and imams were not banned for doing so. Again this is totally true, you can ask anybody a bit older in Bosnia. It was just private, not a subject in school.
"When the mujahedin came from the Arab world, Pakistan, Afghanistan, etc... they brought both the practice and knowledge of Islam. My uncle was the first to embrace Islam in our family and it was seeing how they were in behavior and belief that made him change himself and become a Muslim. Mind you he was an atheist before Islam. A product of Yugoslavia's socialism and nationalism."
Product of Yugoslav socialism and patriotism was not lack of religion, rather it encouraged people to work and build their own community and country, unlike now when we are totally dependet on others. Mujahideen did nothing but crimes on the innocents, and they didn't even help at all, we all known this since our fathers were in war. And how can you know better then a man whos father was an Army general or so?
"My grandfather came from a Muslim family but since he was orphaned during world war 2 he had to work from 12 and got married young. He had the whole family on his back. Furthermore under socialist communism of Tito religious groups were banned and individuals imprisoned, there was no such thing as religious freedom. Celebrating Christmas, going to church sure! Everyone was 'united' under Slavic nationalism, Serbs drank sljivovica with Bosnian Muslims no problem!"
Everybody had right to celebrate everything, Eid, Christmans, it didn't mater, there was full religious freedom for every nationality and religion out there. Since my grand- grandmothers husband was in the communist party, nobody forced here to lose her religious beliefes or stop believing, that's an apsurd. Religious freedom was not even a question in Yugoslavia, and that's the reason I'm muslim now, ofcourse.
"Bratstvo i jedinstvo" -- Brotherhood and unity! That was the slavic nationalist slogan of Tito's Yugoslavia. People were united upon being SLAVS and to this day some of those who are 'proud of Tito' talk about how 'great' yugoslavia was, but they are not practicing Muslims. They're mostly secularists and atheists."
Brootherhood and unity of your own people, ofcourse, we will always think like that. A slav is my true brother, and only we can help each other, not a Pakistani or Arab that came for his own interest (ex. business). He was great beacuse he united us with no interest, he was a poor man that in his tough childhood he didn't have no food to eat, he knew how it was for the working class. He always encouraged us to love and support each other, not paying atention on our religious beliefs. Unlike Pakistanis that came here and preached, but didn't nothing for our people except building Mosques. Tito was trully a great man that did what he promised and preached, comrade.
"Tito imprisoned and tortured anyone who was of religious significance or voice, my grandfather's Kosovar Albanian family was divided as a result of the orphan situation and of this communist slavic phenomena. One of my grandfather's brothers was tortured and imprisoned. Alija Izetbegovic who was a part of the "Muslim Youth" movement was also imprisoned and was a political and religious prisoner under Tito. He led the fight against the Serbs alongside the mujahedin."
Tito didn't torture anyone, especially not anybody with religious significance, there are various pictures with tito and religious patriarhs and imams together. There was an Imam in Yugoslavia, and he reported that Tito converted to Islam before his death, they found the Quran on his bed in hospital in Slovenia. He always showed his symphaty for the religion of Islam and said how "pure it was". On one occasion he asked students : "Who does speak arabic here", one student raised his hand and said "I , Tito", Tito then replied and said: " My children, learn the language of Arabic, because that's the language of future". So what torture are we talking about? Vice president came to my grandmothers birth, they were are muslims and all practicing. Tito only imprisoned those "muslims" and "believers" that wanted to divide the country under the excuse of religion. Not only muslims, but also goes for the orthodox "religious" propaganda that sparked war after his death. So who was right? Him for imprisoning? Or them for starting the war after his death? We all saw what happened after he died, nationalism sparked and horrible war and genocide happened. Same people that did that were imprisoned in his time because of their sick ideology and beliefes, again, same "beliefs" of "muslims" and "orhodox" that later ruined the country. That's not Islam, that's something horrible and capitalistic.
"The propaganda you're talking about 'innocent serbian civillians' comes from Cetnik propaganda. Let me not even get into that. You're just brainwashed by ethnocentricism and Serbian lies who have the AUDACITY to even open their mouths, Ceric's BS (the 'grand mufti of bosnia') and nationalists and munafiqs who are nothing but sell outs when it comes to deen ul islam."
I'm a Bosniak and a muslim, and this has nothing to do with the Serbian sides, you can search "Bosnian war crimes" and see pictures and evidence for yourself, that were done by the same mujahideen that claimed to be "muslims"
"And fear Allah, the only ones who made a 'profit' were war profiteering Bosnians and criminals who drive around in porsches and other expensive cars now through crime. The Arabs and Pakistanis are business people and guess what they established BUSINESSES not GANGS like Bosnian criminals. So all you have is envy and your nationalism that's making you like this. Shame on you."
We have envy? That's a terrible thing to say. I don't envy on anyones wealth and money. It's just that those same Pakistanis made fortune on poor Bosnia. And they cut down our forests just tu build luxury buildings for them and their children? Where's halal in that? hah I'm not nationalist, I condemn that, my beliefs and political orientation is socialist, so how can I be both at the same time? Wrong judgement , comrade.
"And shiism? Iran and Bosnia have a strong relation now. They are doing their utmost to have 'exchange' programs for students to bring them to Iran and vice versa. My cousin is a Bosnian diplomat and has worked in the Iranian embassy for Bosnia. They are giving da'wahto Bosnians to become shias."
Total lie, nobody preaches anything to us, this is funny bruh, I live here and that doesn't happen.
Oh and I remember the last time I was in Bosnia everyone complained about having NO JOBS and whining about Arabs and Pakistanis opening Masajid too. "we don't need masajid we need jobs". To this day it's the same story always everyone complaining about there being 'nothing'.
So tell me then, how is it some people INVESTED their money and used their minds to MAKE for themselves something to establish themselves that bothers you so much? Mind you many of them DIDN'T come with money! Meanwhile you spit dirt on them, while you just complained about 'no jobs' and complain about how the government is not giving you anything and how the government is corrupt (typical attitude of everyone there). You don't necessarily NEED money to START something. If there is NOTHING after war, that means there's lots of opportunity to establish business, open business, things that are needed, services that are needed, things that didn't exist before that you can work on and bring in. BUT the typical attitude of sitting and doing nothing over there is prominent. I can come up with some jokes o crno gorcu, ali malo te sale izgleda bolje prema bosancu koji samo guzicu zna da sjedi i govori kako nema nista a neradi nista.
Wallahi I'd have to curse now to express my feelings on this statement you said. What do you know about our economy and our jobs? It's not about money at all, it's about not even having a chance to work, to survive and to eat. There are 200.000 children living in Poverty now in Bosnia, and the totall population is only 3.8 million, can you imagine? If I want to get a job now, and I finish the university, I simply can't get it , don't you understand that comrade? I can't get it, and not any normal worker can get it because he's not in the rulling class family. And those that work, work for minimum wage at the same people, Arabs, and Pakistanis that exploit them for their goods, and goods of their own country. There is no opportunity for us, you just don't know anything. Sitting and doing nothing? Our fathers are out there, begging and looking for jobs, and you come here and make that statement while you are in your rich apartment in the west, because you escaped war? Hahahah. But go ahead,
I ain't mad at cha.
Ofcourse, thanks to Allah s.w.t there was practice, that's the reason we are muslim now. It's not true that masjid were places for tourists, how can you say a lie like that? That's a complete lie since our grandparents and parents had religious classes in masjid and imams were not banned for doing so. Again this is totally true, you can ask anybody a bit older in Bosnia. It was just private, not a subject in school.
"When the mujahedin came from the Arab world, Pakistan, Afghanistan, etc... they brought both the practice and knowledge of Islam. My uncle was the first to embrace Islam in our family and it was seeing how they were in behavior and belief that made him change himself and become a Muslim. Mind you he was an atheist before Islam. A product of Yugoslavia's socialism and nationalism."
Product of Yugoslav socialism and patriotism was not lack of religion, rather it encouraged people to work and build their own community and country, unlike now when we are totally dependet on others. Mujahideen did nothing but crimes on the innocents, and they didn't even help at all, we all known this since our fathers were in war. And how can you know better then a man whos father was an Army general or so?
"My grandfather came from a Muslim family but since he was orphaned during world war 2 he had to work from 12 and got married young. He had the whole family on his back. Furthermore under socialist communism of Tito religious groups were banned and individuals imprisoned, there was no such thing as religious freedom. Celebrating Christmas, going to church sure! Everyone was 'united' under Slavic nationalism, Serbs drank sljivovica with Bosnian Muslims no problem!"
Everybody had right to celebrate everything, Eid, Christmans, it didn't mater, there was full religious freedom for every nationality and religion out there. Since my grand- grandmothers husband was in the communist party, nobody forced here to lose her religious beliefes or stop believing, that's an apsurd. Religious freedom was not even a question in Yugoslavia, and that's the reason I'm muslim now, ofcourse.
"Bratstvo i jedinstvo" -- Brotherhood and unity! That was the slavic nationalist slogan of Tito's Yugoslavia. People were united upon being SLAVS and to this day some of those who are 'proud of Tito' talk about how 'great' yugoslavia was, but they are not practicing Muslims. They're mostly secularists and atheists."
Brootherhood and unity of your own people, ofcourse, we will always think like that. A slav is my true brother, and only we can help each other, not a Pakistani or Arab that came for his own interest (ex. business). He was great beacuse he united us with no interest, he was a poor man that in his tough childhood he didn't have no food to eat, he knew how it was for the working class. He always encouraged us to love and support each other, not paying atention on our religious beliefs. Unlike Pakistanis that came here and preached, but didn't nothing for our people except building Mosques. Tito was trully a great man that did what he promised and preached, comrade.
"Tito imprisoned and tortured anyone who was of religious significance or voice, my grandfather's Kosovar Albanian family was divided as a result of the orphan situation and of this communist slavic phenomena. One of my grandfather's brothers was tortured and imprisoned. Alija Izetbegovic who was a part of the "Muslim Youth" movement was also imprisoned and was a political and religious prisoner under Tito. He led the fight against the Serbs alongside the mujahedin."
Tito didn't torture anyone, especially not anybody with religious significance, there are various pictures with tito and religious patriarhs and imams together. There was an Imam in Yugoslavia, and he reported that Tito converted to Islam before his death, they found the Quran on his bed in hospital in Slovenia. He always showed his symphaty for the religion of Islam and said how "pure it was". On one occasion he asked students : "Who does speak arabic here", one student raised his hand and said "I , Tito", Tito then replied and said: " My children, learn the language of Arabic, because that's the language of future". So what torture are we talking about? Vice president came to my grandmothers birth, they were are muslims and all practicing. Tito only imprisoned those "muslims" and "believers" that wanted to divide the country under the excuse of religion. Not only muslims, but also goes for the orthodox "religious" propaganda that sparked war after his death. So who was right? Him for imprisoning? Or them for starting the war after his death? We all saw what happened after he died, nationalism sparked and horrible war and genocide happened. Same people that did that were imprisoned in his time because of their sick ideology and beliefes, again, same "beliefs" of "muslims" and "orhodox" that later ruined the country. That's not Islam, that's something horrible and capitalistic.
"The propaganda you're talking about 'innocent serbian civillians' comes from Cetnik propaganda. Let me not even get into that. You're just brainwashed by ethnocentricism and Serbian lies who have the AUDACITY to even open their mouths, Ceric's BS (the 'grand mufti of bosnia') and nationalists and munafiqs who are nothing but sell outs when it comes to deen ul islam."
I'm a Bosniak and a muslim, and this has nothing to do with the Serbian sides, you can search "Bosnian war crimes" and see pictures and evidence for yourself, that were done by the same mujahideen that claimed to be "muslims"
"And fear Allah, the only ones who made a 'profit' were war profiteering Bosnians and criminals who drive around in porsches and other expensive cars now through crime. The Arabs and Pakistanis are business people and guess what they established BUSINESSES not GANGS like Bosnian criminals. So all you have is envy and your nationalism that's making you like this. Shame on you."
We have envy? That's a terrible thing to say. I don't envy on anyones wealth and money. It's just that those same Pakistanis made fortune on poor Bosnia. And they cut down our forests just tu build luxury buildings for them and their children? Where's halal in that? hah I'm not nationalist, I condemn that, my beliefs and political orientation is socialist, so how can I be both at the same time? Wrong judgement , comrade.
"And shiism? Iran and Bosnia have a strong relation now. They are doing their utmost to have 'exchange' programs for students to bring them to Iran and vice versa. My cousin is a Bosnian diplomat and has worked in the Iranian embassy for Bosnia. They are giving da'wahto Bosnians to become shias."
Total lie, nobody preaches anything to us, this is funny bruh, I live here and that doesn't happen.
Oh and I remember the last time I was in Bosnia everyone complained about having NO JOBS and whining about Arabs and Pakistanis opening Masajid too. "we don't need masajid we need jobs". To this day it's the same story always everyone complaining about there being 'nothing'.
So tell me then, how is it some people INVESTED their money and used their minds to MAKE for themselves something to establish themselves that bothers you so much? Mind you many of them DIDN'T come with money! Meanwhile you spit dirt on them, while you just complained about 'no jobs' and complain about how the government is not giving you anything and how the government is corrupt (typical attitude of everyone there). You don't necessarily NEED money to START something. If there is NOTHING after war, that means there's lots of opportunity to establish business, open business, things that are needed, services that are needed, things that didn't exist before that you can work on and bring in. BUT the typical attitude of sitting and doing nothing over there is prominent. I can come up with some jokes o crno gorcu, ali malo te sale izgleda bolje prema bosancu koji samo guzicu zna da sjedi i govori kako nema nista a neradi nista.
Wallahi I'd have to curse now to express my feelings on this statement you said. What do you know about our economy and our jobs? It's not about money at all, it's about not even having a chance to work, to survive and to eat. There are 200.000 children living in Poverty now in Bosnia, and the totall population is only 3.8 million, can you imagine? If I want to get a job now, and I finish the university, I simply can't get it , don't you understand that comrade? I can't get it, and not any normal worker can get it because he's not in the rulling class family. And those that work, work for minimum wage at the same people, Arabs, and Pakistanis that exploit them for their goods, and goods of their own country. There is no opportunity for us, you just don't know anything. Sitting and doing nothing? Our fathers are out there, begging and looking for jobs, and you come here and make that statement while you are in your rich apartment in the west, because you escaped war? Hahahah. But go ahead,
I ain't mad at cha.
sister herb
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Could you ask kind of things from him in private as they sounds quite personal matters? Better not to get too personal in the public discussion as we talk here about matters, not persons themselves (neither their relatives).
No one practiced Islam in former Yugoslavia, except some villages were people were seen as 'backwards' and in practice really they were as they just followed traditions they lacked knowledge of Islam.
Today 'modern' Bosnians call religious Bosnians as 'backwards' too. "Ti ni si moderan, ma kako to prakticiras religiju bas si zaostavljen", oh you are not modern, man how do you practice religion that's so backwards.
There was no proper official qur'an translation even in Bosnia until it was made after the war. There was some 1977 version but who had one?
You can deny whatever you want Mirza06. You have the typical Bosnian nationalist attitude. Oh because I'm in the west I have no idea now right?
I still remember when the Serbian planes flew down low and blew all the building glass by sonic boom. I still remember when my father went in with other Sarajevo guys with arms to stop the Serbs from approaching further into the city but they had us surrounded already.
So I don't live there anymore but I'm well aware of the mentality of people and the condition of the people. Guess what you're not that special living in a 8km city.
Envy of Muslims who have money, while you sit on your ass complaining about no jobs and there is 'nothing' and as mentioned complaining about building masajid we don't need masajid from Arabs blabla. I've heard all that non-sense before.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Deputy_Heads_of_State_of_Yugoslavia
They were all socialist communists.
Today 'modern' Bosnians call religious Bosnians as 'backwards' too. "Ti ni si moderan, ma kako to prakticiras religiju bas si zaostavljen", oh you are not modern, man how do you practice religion that's so backwards.
There was no proper official qur'an translation even in Bosnia until it was made after the war. There was some 1977 version but who had one?
You can deny whatever you want Mirza06. You have the typical Bosnian nationalist attitude. Oh because I'm in the west I have no idea now right?
I still remember when the Serbian planes flew down low and blew all the building glass by sonic boom. I still remember when my father went in with other Sarajevo guys with arms to stop the Serbs from approaching further into the city but they had us surrounded already.
So I don't live there anymore but I'm well aware of the mentality of people and the condition of the people. Guess what you're not that special living in a 8km city.
Envy of Muslims who have money, while you sit on your ass complaining about no jobs and there is 'nothing' and as mentioned complaining about building masajid we don't need masajid from Arabs blabla. I've heard all that non-sense before.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Deputy_Heads_of_State_of_Yugoslavia
They were all socialist communists.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alija_Izetbegović#Imprisonment
Anyone who belonged to a religious group or any religious sentiment was imprisoned regularly while the 'average' Yugoslav didn't care and didn't know. All meanwhile the "bratsvo i jedinstvo" "brotherhood and unity" slogans of nationalism kept blaring into our ears.
Tell me also before the war how many muslim women were covered? In villages it was told to us only 'old ladies' and 'witches' wear scarfs.
Anyone who belonged to a religious group or any religious sentiment was imprisoned regularly while the 'average' Yugoslav didn't care and didn't know. All meanwhile the "bratsvo i jedinstvo" "brotherhood and unity" slogans of nationalism kept blaring into our ears.
Tell me also before the war how many muslim women were covered? In villages it was told to us only 'old ladies' and 'witches' wear scarfs.
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Mirza06
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You just keep repeating yourself comrade, with no proof or evidence. Everybody had right to practice- only it's the thing of a man will he practice or not. That has nothing to do with the country, it's your own choice. Everything I said is backed up by evidence, and everybody had the Quran, ofcourse, I have no idea where you got that thing. On that list there are 2 muslims, Bosnian and Albanian.
Ofcourse we do not need masjid from Arabs, we already have too many of them, that's the only thing they build for washing money, heh. We go out everyday searching for jobs, and 500.000 is employed under gray economy with no insurance, or whatsover. That's just survivale. But what do you know diaspora boy?
Dzemal Bijedic, a Bosniak, From July 1971 until his death in 1977, he was the Prime Minister of the SFRY government.
Hehe, facts, won't even discuss this more. Enjoy your life in diaspora, true soldiers that fought for Bosnia have nothing now, but you do have everything, and you give yourself the right to talk about us from there. Sad sad, but go ahead daddys boy.
I ain't mad at cha.
Ofcourse we do not need masjid from Arabs, we already have too many of them, that's the only thing they build for washing money, heh. We go out everyday searching for jobs, and 500.000 is employed under gray economy with no insurance, or whatsover. That's just survivale. But what do you know diaspora boy?
Dzemal Bijedic, a Bosniak, From July 1971 until his death in 1977, he was the Prime Minister of the SFRY government.
Hehe, facts, won't even discuss this more. Enjoy your life in diaspora, true soldiers that fought for Bosnia have nothing now, but you do have everything, and you give yourself the right to talk about us from there. Sad sad, but go ahead daddys boy.
I ain't mad at cha.
It's too bad there aren't any translations. His Bosnian is spot on, he's a Syrian brother who settled in Bosnia. One of many who married and had children in Bosnia.
They were granted citizenship by Alija Izetbegovic, but many of them had their citizenships revoked later by nationalists who alongside serbs had an agenda against practicing brothers and started calling them all terrorists. Many were falsely accused and innocent and sent to the Americans to be tortured in Guantanamo Bay
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYwwE5B0ggc
They were granted citizenship by Alija Izetbegovic, but many of them had their citizenships revoked later by nationalists who alongside serbs had an agenda against practicing brothers and started calling them all terrorists. Many were falsely accused and innocent and sent to the Americans to be tortured in Guantanamo Bay
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYwwE5B0ggc
I'm not your "comrade". Yes in former yugoslavia we used to call each other 'comrades'.
I'm a muslim and a brother not a communism lover.
You can keep also repeating the typical bosnian rubbish of 'i am diaspora'. But you can be in denial all you want about everything I said.
Yes a 'very' practicing communist:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Džemal_Bijedić
Mirza06
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Yeah, wonder when will Arabs let us marry their women, but they can marry ours. Leave Bosnia alone, all of you middle eastern muslims, that pretend brotherhood and and loyalty.
Only muslims that truly respect us are Turks, not a single one of you more.
Only muslims that truly respect us are Turks, not a single one of you more.
Yeah, wonder when will Arabs let us marry their women, but they can marry ours. Leave Bosnia alone, all of you middle eastern muslims, that pretend brotherhood and and loyalty.
Only muslims that truly respect us are Turks, not a single one of you more.
I'm married to a half Arab and half African woman.
You and your Turkish blindness.
He wanted to create an Islamic Bosnia, but the 'international' community put a stop to that and what happened? Bosnia went to the pre-war model of dividing Bosnia between Serbs and Croat rule. Muslims getting the boot again.
That's why when you step outside of Sarajevo it literally says Serbian Federation with Cetnik slogans on the road along the way.
You turned your back to pride of Islam and turned to nationalism. That's why the country is a failure.
HAHA I AM RICH? Another typical idiotic assumption of people over there. I came with NOTHING with my family and still have nothing. A lot of you complain and complain and complain of YOU having nothing. You have houses built for a few generations, you have food.
People over here struggle with things too. Rarely does anyone who comes buy a house or afford a house, most people rent and pay bills to survive. I am certainly not rich and am struggling financially. Assume much?
Just how you assume all Arabs are sitting on oil. You're isolated and ignorant of the rest of the world and in denial of your own country's problems trying to blame it on 'foreigners' who actually helped you.
Mirza06
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And soon as you realize that, you'll be smart. You have a typical foreign muslim opinion. We don't want arabs, pakistans, nor an Islamic Bosnia.
As I said, Bosnia was and always will be home for 6 religions and nationalities. This is where I stop. gl
As I said, Bosnia was and always will be home for 6 religions and nationalities. This is where I stop. gl
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