Hey Agnostics & Atheists: Do you ever worry?

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Do you ever worry about it? (read the first post)

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BoredAgnostic said:
Personal happiness/fulfillment from the act of helping, and the happiness of those that you've helped is a major gain for a lot of people (whether religious or not), including myself. I don't need to feel 'forced' by a higher being to try to help people that are suffering.
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when does a higher being "force" you to do anything at all?
 
BoredAgnostic said:
Personal happiness/fulfillment from the act of helping, and the happiness of those that you've helped is a major gain for a lot of people (whether religious or not), including myself. I don't need to feel 'forced' by a higher being to try to help people that are suffering.
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Peace BoredAgnostic,

It may be "personal happiness/fulfillment" to yourself, but generally speaking that's not the case, as statistics show. And, it's not force, it's being grateful to your Creator for everything He's given to you. And what Muslim isn't grateful?

Narrated Al-Mughira: The Prophet used to stand (in the prayer) or pray till both his feet or legs swelled. He was asked why (he offered such an unbearable prayer) and he said, “should I not be a thankful slave?” (Sahih Bukhari – Book #21, Hadith #230)
 
BoredAgnostic said:
Personal happiness/fulfillment from the act of helping, and the happiness of those that you've helped is a major gain for a lot of people (whether religious or not), including myself. I don't need to feel 'forced' by a higher being to try to help people that are suffering.
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Maybe for you, and a few atheists/agnostics in this board, that maybe the case. But what about the general population of atheists?

Meanwhile, religion (and I am talking specific here - Islam) command people -whether they feel forced or not- to help people and give charity.
 
naidamar said:
Maybe for you, and a few atheists/agnostics in this board, that maybe the case. But what about the general population of atheists?

Meanwhile, religion (and I am talking specific here - Islam) command people -whether they feel forced or not- to help people and give charity.
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I don't know about the general population of atheists, I can only speak for myself and those that I know. I think religion may be an incentive for people to give, just as the pleasant feeling after an altruistic act is, but there are religious folks that don't give to charities for whatever reason and there are nonbelievers that do. I think the only religious people that would just stop helping people, if they found out that God didn't exist or their religion wasn't the correct one would be the ones that felt compelled solely by their religion to be good charitable people.
 
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Perseveranze said:
Peace BoredAgnostic,

It may be "personal happiness/fulfillment" to yourself, but generally speaking that's not the case, as statistics show. And, it's not force, it's being grateful to your Creator for everything He's given to you. And what Muslim isn't grateful?

Narrated Al-Mughira: The Prophet used to stand (in the prayer) or pray till both his feet or legs swelled. He was asked why (he offered such an unbearable prayer) and he said, “should I not be a thankful slave?” (Sahih Bukhari – Book #21, Hadith #230)
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What statistics?
 
BoredAgnostic said:
I don't know about the general population of atheists, I can only speak for myself and those that I know. I think religion may be an incentive for people to give, just as the pleasant feeling after an altruistic act is, but there are religious folks that don't give to charities for whatever reason and there are nonbelievers that do. I think the only religious people that would just stop helping people, if they found out that God didn't exist or their religion wasn't the correct one would be the ones that felt compelled solely by their religion to be good charitable people.
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Let me ask you:
Would you happily volunteer to pay tax if there is no command to do so and no threat for punishment (ie. prison term) if you don't pay it (ie. if the tax is voluntary)?
 
BoredAgnostic said:
What statistics?
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More statistics:
http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0264.htm

Atheists often claim to be "just as moral" as religious believers.
Christopher Hitchens, for instance, in God Is Not Great, offers his rather vague and subjective assertion that no statistic will ever find that atheists "commit more crimes of greed or violence than the faithful."

Yet, when comparing the morals of believers and nonbelievers, neo-atheist authors are careful to tiptoe around the issue of charitable activity. The reason that atheists studiously avoid the question of generosity is that study after study shows an overwhelming difference between believers and non-believers. Not surprisingly, the believers come out on top every time.

.......
Whether we speak about the evils and bloodshed of atheist regimes, the generosity and charitable giving of religious people, or simply the happiness derived from religious faith, religion beats atheism hands down in every area. This fact alone will give pause to any unbiased observer.

http://www.hoover.org/publications/policy-review/article/6577

.......
How do religious and secular people vary in their charitable behavior? To answer this, I turn to data collected expressly to explore patterns in American civic life. The Social Capital Community Benchmark Survey (sccbs) was undertaken in 2000 by researchers at universities throughout the United States and the Roper Center for Public Opinion Research. The data consist of nearly 30,000 observations drawn from 50 communities across the United States and ask individuals about their “civic behavior,” including their giving and volunteering during the year preceding the survey.
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The differences in charity between secular and religious people are dramatic. Religious people are 25 percentage points more likely than secularists to donate money (91 percent to 66 percent) and 23 points more likely to volunteer time (67 percent to 44 percent). And, consistent with the findings of other writers, these data show that practicing a religion is more important than the actual religion itself in predicting charitable behavior. For example, among those who attend worship services regularly, 92 percent of Protestants give charitably, compared with 91 percent of Catholics, 91 percent of Jews, and 89 percent from other religions.
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http://www.gallup.com/poll/102961/charitable-giving-differs-canada-uk-us.aspx

UKCANUS120307Graph5-1.gif


http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/forum/2010-11-15-column15_ST_N.htm?loc=interstitialskip

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The differences between religious and secular Americans can be dramatic. Forty percent of worship-attending Americans volunteer regularly to help the poor and elderly, compared with 15% of Americans who never attend services. Frequent-attenders are also more likely than the never-attenders to volunteer for school and youth programs (36% vs. 15%), a neighborhood or civic group (26% vs. 13%), and for health care (21% vs. 13%). The same is true for philanthropic giving; religious Americans give more money to secular causes than do secular Americans. And the list goes on, as it is true for good deeds such as helping someone find a job, donating blood, and spending time with someone who is feeling blue.
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As much as I can see, atheists here often say altruism as their motivation. But I think it not need be so.

As how I see it in the morality debate some time ago, atheists here tend to define good as 'something that would benefit all sentient/living participants', and that that would 'somehow create a ripple effect so as to influence the participants back'.

I think that would suffice to compel them.
 
It would be interesting to see how these studies define "charitable giving". Does giving to religious causes count (it does in Canada re the tax laws I am sad to report)? Does volunteering at your son's football games count? Or are we talking about feeding hungry strangers or giving money to the poor? We should keep in mind the kind of scams Mother Theresa pulled (more money went to funding her convents than to funding her "houses for the dying" - which were actually not designed to cure people and which actually blocked medical care on more than a few occasions - Pen & Teller did a good expose on this as did the foremeantioned Christopher Hitchens).

All of that said, I would not be suprised if religious people still gave more than non-religious (to actual real charities I mean) even after this is controlled for. Religion can be used to keep people in line and to control them. It is the greatest tool there is for social control (and domination). And this can be used for good as well as for ill.
 
Pygoscelis said:
It would be interesting to see how these studies define "charitable giving". Does giving to religious causes count (it does in Canada re the tax laws I am sad to report)? Does volunteering at your son's football games count? Or are we talking about feeding hungry strangers or giving money to the poor?
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In the articles in websites that I posted, your "concerns" have been fully addressed. Even discounting giving to religious causes, the religious people still give more to charity than the non-religious. And even efforts such as donating time have also been included in the studies.

Face it: atheists are less charitable than the religious.

Let me ask you:
would you pay your tax fully and happily if there were no command to do so, no incentive for compliance, and no punishment for no compliance?
 
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For some of them, it is the very reason they commit crimes.

BTW, It says you disabled your account and yet here you are. You're such a tease. lol :D
 
τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ;1406288 said:



People in prison have no faith.. if they did they wouldn't be committing crimes .. it is the natural conclusion save for those who find faith and social reforms and very few do!
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Why do you think people of Faith would not commit crimes? Iblis knew God existed and might have had direct contact with God yet he disobeyed God so obviously (at least according to Islam) disobedience has nothing to do with one's belief or faith in God.
 
naidamar said:
In the articles in websites that I posted, your "concerns" have been fully addressed. Even discounting giving to religious causes, the religious people still give more to charity than the non-religious. And even efforts such as donating time have also been included in the studies.

Face it: atheists are less charitable than the religious.

Let me ask you:
would you pay your tax fully and happily if there were no command to do so, no incentive for compliance, and no punishment for no compliance?
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Giving charity is neither necessary nor sufficient to being a morally upright person, IMO.
 
Lynx said:
Giving charity is neither necessary nor sufficient to being a morally upright person, IMO.
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Thankfully your opinion does not define what being moral is.
Let's take a worldwide survey and ask the whole world's population, who they think as better person: a charitable person vs. non-charitable person.

I bet stinginess is a virtue in your book.

 

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