Hey Agnostics & Atheists: Do you ever worry?

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Do you ever worry about it? (read the first post)

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what you think of God or think people ought to think of God really doesn't matter in the scheme of things!
 
Ezekiel_B said:
The only thing that worries me is this idea of "the right religion"... it disturbs me to think people can imagine a god who is all powerful and all wise - but that they cannot seem to stretch their minds far enough to consider the possibility that if he/she is ultimately wise, the god might take into consideration the believers' sincerity in the way they worshipped and lived their lives, regardless of the precise religion that was available to them in their lifetime.
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I can certainly understand your concern over this. But what makes you think that God doesn't take exactly that into consideration. I'm not saying that sincerity alone is all that counts, because people can be sincerely wrong and intent on continuing to head in the wrong direction. But for those who are genuinely seeking him, though they and I may have different understandings of who God is and what he ultimately expects, I suspect that the search is more important than having the perfect set of answers for I don't think that our finite minds could ever fully comprehend an infinite God well enough to ever actually possess THE perfect answer.

Here is a bit of conversation I had with another forumite regarding this same question in a different context:

Me: I read Malachi 1:10-11 today.

10 "Oh, that one of you would shut the temple doors, so that you would not light useless fires on my altar! I am not pleased with you," says the LORD Almighty, "and I will accept no offering from your hands. 11 My name will be great among the nations, from the rising to the setting of the sun. In every place incense and pure offerings will be brought to my name, because my name will be great among the nations," says the LORD Almighty.

It seems my connection with God has less to do wtih my religion than my devotion. Makes me wonder if perhaps others that I think of as following the "wrong" religion might be closer to God than I simply because they take time to genuinely seek him.

She: I simply read that verse to mean that religious rituals are of little importance to God.
It reminds me of Hosea 6, especially verse 6, "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings."

Me: Yes, I suspect that was the meaning to the people of Israel, especially verse 10. But given that vs 11 goes on to say, "My name will be great among the nations, from the rising to the setting of the sun. In every place incense and pure offerings will be brought to my name, because my name will be great among the nations." I wonder if there is a need to be more careful vs. arrogant in our claims of being God's chosen people as if we alone are the only ones to whom God might show his favor.

She: That might depend on what God means by the 'incense and pure offerings brought to my name' as opposed to 'useless fires on my altar'. But I agree, it certainly seems that God is pleased by certain things he sees in 'the nations' and displeased by others he sees in Israel. However, I am not sure whether as a European Christian in the 21st century I identify myself as one amongst Israel. Am I not one belonging to 'the nations'?

Me: One among MANY nations. What is it that he finds pleasing in us? If not our ritual, then is it our creed? our praxis? or our personal devotion? And might he look for one thing of those of us with a certain background and a different thing of those of some other background? I guess I'm wondering if God's justice requires him to have the same standard of every person, or recognizing that we are not all born to into the same situation and knowledge of him, if his justice in fact requires just the opposite -- expecting more of those to whom much is given and satisified with somethign different, perhaps simply the sincere search for him, of those who don't have the same opportunity or exposure to him?

She: It's quite an exiting thought, and one I have never considered.

Now I think about it, it makes perfect sense that God, who knows us all intimately and personally, would know exactly what he can expect from each of us individually and how far we will be able to walk towards him in this life. And that he will judge us according to our properties and tendencies, personalities and backgrounds. If I think about it, I have somewhat different expectations (at least in certain areas) of my own children, because I know them to have different strengths and weaknesses.

Now, the next question is 'How do I know what God desires from ME personally?'

Me: "He has showed you, O man, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God." (Micah 6:8)
 
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Here's something I read as a child and was fascinated by its simplicity as I considered the person and period it applies to. I wrote it down and have referred to it in times of stress over the next half century, always with a smile and consolation that no matter what happens the absolute certainty is that I know more than such a great historical figure:

It said of Kublai Khan that he respected the principal feasts of the Jews, Saracens, Idolators, and Christians. Being asked why this is so, he replied: There are four prophets to whom the world does honour. Christians say their god is Jesus Christ; Saracens venerate Mahomet; Jews revere Moses; Idolators pray to Sakyamuni Burkhan. I honour each, thus I am sure to honour him who is true. And I pray to him.
 
jabirmusa said:
Here's something I read as a child and was fascinated by its simplicity as I considered the person and period it applies to. I wrote it down and have referred to it in times of stress over the next half century, always with a smile and consolation that no matter what happens the absolute certainty is that I know more than such a great historical figure:

It said of Kublai Khan that he respected the principal feasts of the Jews, Saracens, Idolators, and Christians. Being asked why this is so, he replied: There are four prophets to whom the world does honour. Christians say their god is Jesus Christ; Saracens venerate Mahomet; Jews revere Moses; Idolators pray to Sakyamuni Burkhan. I honour each, thus I am sure to honour him who is true. And I pray to him.
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Sounds like a shallow minded version of Pascal's Wager. Also reminds me of Homer Simpson who on one episode when in trouble blurted out "Jesus! Buddha! Allah! I Love You All!"
 
Also sounds like something making the rounds on facebook earlier this week. I wonder if the poster is even the half century old that is claimed in the post?
 
crayon said:
Do you ever worry that when you die you'll figure out that some religion is true, and that you needed to have believed in it to go to heaven? Whether it's christianity, islam, or any other religion that requires acceptance before death to go to heaven (like not an "everyone goes to heaven" type of religion).

Do you ever wonder about this or worry about it?
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How do you know that there's something 'after'?
 
Zafran said:
Just like you like you know theres something tommorrow.
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What I meant was, how do you know that the afterlife is as the Qur'an describes it? Maybe you pick up the wrong faith or God(s)?

Why you are so sure about the Muslim way of paradise? Is just faith?
 
Arisempire said:
What I meant was, how do you know that the afterlife is as the Qur'an describes it? Maybe you pick up the wrong faith or God(s)?

Why you are so sure about the Muslim way of paradise? Is just faith?
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Like the faith when you go back to sleep tommorrow your going to wake up the next day - thats faith as well.

We are that sure of the Quran and prophet Muhammad pbuh. Actually we are more then sure - we are certian.
 
Arisempire said:
I don't know if I will wake up tomorrow. Is not an evidence nor faith, just I don't know If I will wake up tomorrow.
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what about your ancestors times 100? do you have any evidence they existed or is that faith?
 
Arisempire said:
So, is just faith, no evidence!
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Actually there's more than enough evidence for Islam, but that's in other threads.

More related to this thread:
"what is your evidence that this universe is not created?"
 
Zafran said:
what about your ancestors times 100? do you have any evidence they existed or is that faith?
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Faith would not be enough for me to be here, obviously is factual that I had ancestors.

naidamar said:
Actually there's more than enough evidence for Islam, but that's in other threads.

More related to this thread:
"what is your evidence that this universe is not created?"
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How can from nothing be created everything?

That's why the Universe has never been created, it always existed. Simply because from nothing can't come out everything.
 
Arisempire said:
How can from nothing be created everything?
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Monkeys also never believe that it is possible to fly to the moon. So are monkeys correct in their thinking?
Don't worry, I am not calling you monkey.

Actually your statement is erroneous in the most obvious fundamental way:
You implied that the creator is bound by the laws of this universe. So you implied that the creator was already in the universe before he'd created the universe. That is very basic logical mistake.


Arisempire said:
That's why the Universe has never been created, it always existed. Simply because from nothing can't come out everything.
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And what is your evidence that this universe exists forever, because the physical laws alone do not support it.
 
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Not really. Maybe when I first became agnostic. But as you slowly drift into atheism, you realize that the religious are more worried than you. You take the world as it is, with its flaws and perfections. The grand vastness, the infinite neutrality concerning everything, that is ultimate truth, and its beautiful. It's beautiful because when I die, I will exactly be as I was before I was born. Part of this nothingness that has existed for billions of years and will continue to do so.

You don't worry about heaven being real or not. Because it isn't. You don't worry about going to hell, because hell doesn't exist. That is truth.
 
SpaceTime said:
You don't worry about heaven being real or not. Because it isn't. You don't worry about going to hell, because hell doesn't exist. That is truth.
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There is no truth to that at least none that you can prove!.. as we emerge from the nothingness of the womb to life, and the darkness of night to day light so shall we be resurrected from the tombs to eternal life.

each soul is held in pledge of its own deeds so it wouldn't matter in the scheme of things whether or not you feared or believed in an afterlife.. it will be your cross to bear if there is one!

all the best
 
As an atheist, I take the view that:
For us to be honest, we have to look at what we see and what we can prove. There is no proof for the notion that heaven or hell doesn't exist. But there is also no evidence for the notion that there isn't a giant pikachu lurking behind our Sun. Yet, we both realize that it this is not true. And that's where atheism is different to religion.

It is in our human nature to want solace, it is perfectly reasonable for us to want to blanket the truth that no one has come down to us, the universe is scary and eerie in its silence. So much so that we would believe things we know not to be rationally true. But it's part of growing up as a human being, that we need to set aside "I heard, from so and so" and look with our own eyes, this is the only thing we have, our own experiences are what count. Tangible and provable things are the only things that give us truth, and the truth isn't so bad, not bad at all. It is more beautiful than whatever we were taught.
 
SpaceTime said:
As an atheist, I take the view that:
For us to be honest, we have to look at what we see and what we can prove. There is no proof for the notion that heaven or hell doesn't exist. But there is also no evidence for the notion that there isn't a giant pikachu lurking behind our Sun. Yet, we both realize that it this is not true. And that's where atheism is different to religion.
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Bertrand's teapot analogy is so old and flawed it even shames other staunch atheists, for the theists, it is so puerile to engage an atheist who can't rise above inane analogies!
It is in our human nature to want solace, it is perfectly reasonable for us to want to blanket the truth that no one has come down to us, the universe is scary and eerie in its silence. So much so that we would believe things we know not to be rationally true. But it's part of growing up as a human being, that we need to set aside "I heard, from so and so" and look with our own eyes, this is the only thing we have, our own experiences are what count. Tangible and provable things are the only things that give us truth, and the truth isn't so bad, not bad at all. It is more beautiful than whatever we were taught.
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This is a alot of subjective fluff, it doesn't offer an explanation for the world we find ourselves nor does it draw from a thorough philosophical or scientific research. I understand you're not invested beyond putting your two cents down with vehemence and pepper it a little with anti-religious scorn.. but it is generally a waste of everyone's time, especially that no one knows you personally to take your opinion to heart!

all the best
 

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