Homophobia, not injustice, is what really fires the faiths

[IbnAbdulHakim]

also im pretty sure none of us literally fear gays, im pretty sure we just hate the sickness in their hearts.

I guess an aethiest will never understand the immorality until he accepts God...

 

[Khattab]

Do people who accept homosexulity accept peodophilia too? As many paedophiles claim they where born with such desires and they cant help it? If not then what gives you the right to say you dont accept there acts but accept what homosexuals take part in? What if a child agrees to take part in what they do and the peodophilia gets there consent?

 

[root]

Do people who accept homosexulity accept peodophilia too? As many paedophiles claim they where born with such desires and they cant help it? If not then what gives you the right to say you dont accept there acts but accept what homosexuals take part in? What if a child agrees to take part in what they do and the peodophilia gets there consent?

A peodophile cannot obtain consent from an underage person so both homosexual/hetresexual sex is illegal with underage person!

Also, what about this?

Deep in the national medical archives of the American Medical databases lies an intriguing case of a man in his thirties, A normal healthy male who was happily married with two children and loving father and husband. Much to everyone’s surprise he was arrested for child pornography and molestation of his own daughter. Dealt with by the society within the remit of the criminal system and sentenced to 12 years imprisonment. In prison his interest in child pornography increased and so did a constant headache, which mirrored in timing to his change in sexual behaviour. After complaining constantly of severe and worsening headaches he was subjected to a brain scan, which revealed a brain tumour which incidentally was pushing against the section of the brain which was responsible for human sexual behaviour. After an operation to remove the tumour his sexual interests returned to “normal” and his drive for child pornography abated. 6 months later, his sexual desires once again started to change and his brain was scanned again revealing that the tumour had returned in the same location following the failure of the surgeon to remove all the tumour cells. Removal of the second tumour again resulted in his sexual desires returning to normal.

 

[Malaikah]

^That is so amazing. Do you have a source?

And btw, what are you trying to prove with that? :?

 

[Dawud_uk]

he is saying homosexuals cannot help it, yes there are certain things that can cause such problems but that doesnt let the vast majority of the sick individuals who practice homosexuality off the hook.

look, there are such problems that cause people to become violently derranged but that doesnt mean all murderers cannot help it and so we should not punish them for their sin of murder.

some people could have physical illness that mean they become homosexual, some could have pychological illess, some mental illness but most have an illness of the heart where they dont value the laws of Allah and so do as they please to fulfil sick desires they already or follow the whispering of shaitan and do haram when they dont have to.

Abu Abdullah

 

[Khattab]

A peodophile cannot obtain consent from an underage person so both homosexual/hetresexual sex is illegal with underage person!

Also, what about this?

Deep in the national medical archives of the American Medical databases lies an intriguing case of a man in his thirties, A normal healthy male who was happily married with two children and loving father and husband. Much to everyone’s surprise he was arrested for child pornography and molestation of his own daughter. Dealt with by the society within the remit of the criminal system and sentenced to 12 years imprisonment. In prison his interest in child pornography increased and so did a constant headache, which mirrored in timing to his change in sexual behaviour. After complaining constantly of severe and worsening headaches he was subjected to a brain scan, which revealed a brain tumour which incidentally was pushing against the section of the brain which was responsible for human sexual behaviour. After an operation to remove the tumour his sexual interests returned to “normal” and his drive for child pornography abated. 6 months later, his sexual desires once again started to change and his brain was scanned again revealing that the tumour had returned in the same location following the failure of the surgeon to remove all the tumour cells. Removal of the second tumour again resulted in his sexual desires returning to normal.

If you give homosexuals there rights why do you deny the right of the peodophile? As I said before if consent was given by the child who are you to say this child doesnt know its feelings and desires? (A child refers to anyone under the age of 16)

If you told someone even 20-30 years ago that gays would have all these rights thy would have never believed you, because much of society was against such acts. This has changed over recent years and now homosexuilty is seen as normal. Now who is to say peoples attitudes will not change in 30 years towards pedophiles?

Pedophile activism

The pedophile activism movement, referred to by some supporters as the childlove movement, is a social movement that encompasses a wide variety of views, but generally advocates one or more of the following: social acceptance of adults' romantic or sexual attraction to children; social acceptance of adults' sexual activity with children; and changes in institutions of concern to pedophiles, such as changing age-of-consent laws and mental illness classifications. The movement is extremely unpopular and has made little progress toward these goals. The most high profile pedophile activism group is NAMBLA. NAMBLA advocates the legalization of sexual relationships between men and boys.


I remember a thread Root where the purpose of life was being talked about and you said the purpose of life was to pro-create, so are homosexuals for you not fulfilling their purpose? If the purpose of human biengs is to pro-create then surely they arent doing what is required of them? And would you be against it if everyone in the world where homosexuals?

 

[Zulkiflim]

Salaam,
For all the discussion here,i sincerely hope i do not see that any muslim would condone what Allah has forbade.

The western world and the western religion has been chaged by man desires.
Gay and lesbians are now intract into the Chrisitan/Catholic and Judaic faith.
And since they cnat do anything to then in their own religion,they thus do not wish to have anyone who follow the true teaching.

Sin loves company ,and when the contrast is clear,they seek to oppress us and demean us for following our religon,knowing full well it is also in their own books.

So let us be the sign of hyprocrisy for them.

 

[j4763]

If you told someone even 20-30 years ago that gays would have all these rights thy would have never believed you, because much of society was against such acts. This has changed over recent years and now homosexuilty is seen as normal. Now who is to say peoples attitudes will not change in 30 years towards pedophiles?

Same goes for womans rights, 50-60 years ago they didn't have all the rights they do now (well in the western world anyways). Is that a bad thing now?

Peoples attitudes will never change about the act of pedo's because a child can simple not grasp the concept of sex which even today is associated with love and and no child is mentally prepared for that feeling of love adults have for one another. And imo not even 16 year olds.

 

[Khattab]

Same goes for womans rights, 50-60 years ago they didn't have all the rights they do now (well in the western world anyways). Is that a bad thing now?

Peoples attitudes will never change about the act of pedo's because a child can simple not grasp the concept of sex which even today is associated with love and and no child is mentally prepared for that feeling of love adults have for one another. And imo not even 16 year olds.

Yes its good the West finally gave women there rights, but what I am saying is 50-60 years ago it was unheard of, and people didnt deem such things possible. The same could be said for paedophiles at the moment we think peodophilia will never be allowed but who is to say one day certain groups that are campainging for "paedophile rights" will not get there way?

If you allow homosexuality I dont think you can say give homosexuals the right to do what they want but not peodophiles? Just because its not acceptable to you, you cant pick and choose and not allow a paedophile his rights. Who are you to allow one person his rights and deny another person his? You are ruling by your expectations. We rule by what Allah (SWT) has revealed not by our own desires and lusts.

People who where saying muslims and other faith groups are homophobic because they dont agree with homosexuality well then are you not paedophobic? Im just pointing out certain peoples hypocrisy.

 

[Pygoscelis]

Yes its good the West finally gave women there rights, but what I am saying is 50-60 years ago it was unheard of, and people didnt deem such things possible.

Same with blacks.

Same with atheists.

Did you know that 50 years ago athiests were forbidden in America to testify in court or hold public office?

I don't see your point though. Times change and sometimes attitudes change too.

If you allow homosexuality I dont think you can say give homosexuals the right to do what they want but not peodophiles?

Slippery Slope? What about bestiality (puppy love?)? Polygamy?

Just because its not acceptable to you, you cant pick and choose and not allow a paedophile his rights.

With pedophiles it more a question of children's ability to consent than it is the adults right to sex/marry.

In some cultures, including early Islamic culture if I'm not mistaken, the age of consent was much lower. People were marrying in their teens or even younger. We'd call that pedophilia by today's cultural norms.

If the culture deems children not mature enough to consent then pedophilia is the same as rape. If children ARE mature enough to choose, then that goes way beyond pedophelia. THey would then logically be ok to buy cigarettes and drive cars and vote, etc.

 

[Malaikah]

^That is the problem though isn't it? The culture. That is basically what rights and laws and stuff are based on, culture, something that is every changing. It doesn't make sense that something is illegal one day and legal the next.

The good thing about Islam, we don't this problem, our laws aren't based on something as unpredictable as what the culture will be like 20 years down the track, they are the universal laws of God.

 

[Akil]

Firstly, homosexuality is not the same as or similar to pedophilia. Calling homosexuality similar to pedophilia is exactly like calling marriage similar to rape.

Second, whether or not homosexuality is a choice, psychological or biological is beside the point. The point is that a democratic government has no business making moral or ethical decisions for its citizens.

Once we give them one freedom, they will take another and then another and then another. Then we will be without freedom, subject to the whims of a Christian theocracy we created through our own indifference.

Lastly no one should try to convince you what to believe about homosexuals or the gay lifestyle. If you believe it is immoral and or wrong continue to do so, your beliefs are your own. But these beliefs are no reason to hate.

Hate is never right or good and never leads to anything positive.

In the end, in my opinion Muslims shouldn’t treat a homosexual any different than someone who drinks alcohol, has premarital sex and listens to metal ( like me >.< )

 

[Pygoscelis]

^That is the problem though isn't it? The culture. That is basically what rights and laws and stuff are based on, culture, something that is every changing. It doesn't make sense that something is illegal one day and legal the next.

Well only for the abritrary things. There are basic ethics derived from empathy and social harmony (charity is good, theft is bad, etc) and then there are socially constructed taboos (homosexuality is bad, sex with people under abritrarily chosen age is bad, you shalt not eat shellfish, taboo words, etc). The former isn't likely to chage, the latter changes constantly.

Religions often codify the moral values of the time and followers thereafter then sometimes telling the basic ethics from the socially constructed ones. I'm sure that when the bible was written some of the things it forbids made sense to the writers. But today, many of them make little or no sense at all. And sometimes it even becomes counter productive (ie Jehovas witnesses denying their children life saving medical procedures - brutal child abuse in my view)

 

[Malaikah]

Well only for the abritrary things. There are basic ethics derived from empathy and social harmony (charity is good, theft is bad, etc) and then there are socially constructed taboos (homosexuality is bad, sex with people under abritrarily chosen age is bad, you shalt not eat shellfish, taboo words, etc). The former isn't likely to chage, the latter changes constantly.

You have a point, but I personally think the things that do change are really very significant themselves and deserve to be something that is fixed. But with out religion you can never have that.

(ie Jehovas witnesses denying their children life saving medical procedures - brutal child abuse in my view)

Why? :uuh: What is wrong with medicines?

 

[Woodrow]

You have a point, but I personally think the things that do change are really very significant themselves and deserve to be something that is fixed. But with out religion you can never have that.



Why? :uuh: What is wrong with medicines?

JW's will allow most medicines. They are against blood transfusions so that eliminates any surgery as most surgery requires transfusions.

 

[Pygoscelis]

JW's will allow most medicines. They are against blood transfusions so that eliminates any surgery as most surgery requires transfusions.

Correct. And too many children have died because of the dictates of their PARENTS' religious views. It should be criminal, and actually in many (most now?) places it is.

 

[root]

It's been an interesting thread and I for one support a Government protecting the freedom of it's subjects from religous homophobia especially at the hands of Islam and it's homophobic laws.

Not to allow Gay people the right to a double bed on religous grounds is prejudice via religion, if it's allowed then it's also fair for hotels to refuse double beds to people who are not married because of a given religous moral. I would be annoyed if I was questioned to conclude if I was or was not married.

Bottom line for me especially after some of the comments on this thread is that homosexuals need such protection from the religous homophobes out thier, I support this law that gives such protections not just for Homosexuals but unmarried couples, blacks, christians and muslims alike,

No room at the inn cos your a muslim is as wrong as no room in the in cos your a homo or no room at the inn cos your not married.........

Khattab - I remember a thread Root where the purpose of life was being talked about and you said the purpose of life was to pro-create, so are homosexuals for you not fulfilling their purpose? If the purpose of human biengs is to pro-create then surely they arent doing what is required of them? And would you be against it if everyone in the world where homosexuals?

"if"..........?

I would also be against "if" everyone in the world being a suicide bomber :? I stand by what I said since evolution works through safety in numbers

 

[Malaikah]

Root,

I will agree with you only because it is a country that is not governed by any religion, and therefore has no right to discriminate against people for what they believe is morally wrong. Not that I agree with the system itself though, but since this is what the country is based on, then it goes for everyone.

On the other hand, God does have that right to dictate to us what is morally correct and what is not, so do not expect that active gays would have or even deserve to have any rights in an Islamic state.

It shocks me that it takes something radical like this for many people to actually release that the country they live in is governed based on what feels right at the moment, at least when it comes to morals and ethics anyway. Or do people really think they are living in a religious country where evil would never be given any rights? Maybe this will come as a reality check for some.

I personally think it is a double standard when Muslims act so against gay people, and yet they might not be as much against non-Muslims who are fornicators, heavy drinkers, gamblers etc... Although this could be seen as a way in which the society we live in has made us to become almost immune to these kinds of things, we are exposed to them so often that the shock value has tragically decreased.

 

[Pygoscelis]

so do not expect that active gays would have or even deserve to have any rights in an Islamic state.

That is the saddest thing I've heard you say yet.

No rights? Not any? Surely you don't mean that. If you do, then this is good reason to be anti-islamic.

 

[Akil]

Those who choose a homosexual life style should probably avoid a Muslim government, just like a Muslim who wishes to deny the rights of homosexuals should avoid a Democracy.