Homosexual Indoctrination in UK Schools - it's happening now

[جوري]

Would you provide a link please for the Islamic scriptures that teach this?

Peace,
Jim

I already did here:

http://www.islamicboard.com/general...-schools-its-happening-now-3.html#post1600871

 

[theplains]

I already did here:

http://www.islamicboard.com/general...-schools-its-happening-now-3.html#post1600871

Thank you. Appreciate it. May have to put my glasses on

Peace,
Jim

 

[observer]

Currently schools have to show that homosexuality is normal.

I'm not sure what's wrong with this - if my child turns out to be gay I hope very much that he will be thought of as normal and not some depraved abomination as seems to be being suggested here by some people.

Being gay is as much a choice as being right or left handed.

 

[Independent]

This is an issue of widespread concern, for it strikes at the very root, the very basic unit of society. This is a matter of major concern to many parents from various faith communities

Some interesting links in your post that raise a different issue, which is the possible interaction of the new same sex marriage laws with existing educational legislation. The suggestion is that schools might thereby be compelled to teach homosexual relationships in a way that could lead to individual teachers being disciplined for refusing.

This is so far a hypothetical situation but one worth raising and may require a revision of the education legislation. No government will want to preside over a scenario where teachers are getting sacked right, left and centre.

As for the issue at the start of this thread....personally I'm not convinced of the need for any sex education prior to age 10, either hetero or homosexual. Having said that I'm not aware of any issues about it from my friends who have kids in school here currently. My own son has only begun school in England recently when we emigrated, so i can't comment from his experience. However, I can tell from his occasional comments about how kids get treated that being gay in England is still not an easy path, no matter what people think.

Secondary school sex education is a different matter. Like the great majority of UK citizens i don't have any ideological objection to homosexuality. So I agree that it should be presented in an even-handed way. By that stage, there will be kids in the class who know they are gay, and whom all the other kids also tacitly recognise as being gay. This will be the case whatever the law says. The only difference is whether these kids are to be persecuted or not. In a western society it is appropriate to treat them entirely equally. An Islamic society will choose differently.

I am happy that UK society has changed from the appalling situation just 50 years ago, when Alan Turing (a man who arguably shortened WW2 by a year or more through his code breaking efforts) was subjected to chemical castration, simply because he was gay - instead of being celebrated as a great hero of the war who saved millions of lives. He committed suicide afterwards. This kind of persecution must not be allowed to happen again.

 

[جوري]

I'm not sure what's wrong with this - if my child turns out to be gay I hope very much that he will be thought of as normal and not some depraved abomination as seems to be being suggested here by some people.

Being gay is as much a choice as being right or left handed.

It is ok for you to feel this is normal. It isn't OK for you to impose that this is normal upon everyone else.
Also people should make friends with whom they choose.
Some kids have foul mouths in my niece's school naturally her mother doesn't want her to pick up bad words. If some are promiscuous she has a right to steer her away as well, if they're having homosexual tendencies or making her uncomfortable in any way shape or form or in a manner not congruent to her beliefs then she has a right to not let her mix with those either. That too is normal and NO being left handed or right handed has nothing to do with lewd sexual proclivities!

 

[ardianto]

For what it is worth I didn't read your post but the one before it.
People can fall into sin by choice yes I agree!

Being bisexual can be inevitable, but doing homosexual activity is by choice. They can choose to do or not to do. Even those who already involved can choose too, leave this activity or still stay.

Being gay can be inevitable can be by choice. Bisexual people actually can chose to be homosexual or heterosexual.

I don't think either of those are true or make a difference in meaning- that's a personal opinion and not a fact!

Tendency is not the right word. But if you still object with "potency", I will change with "possible to be".

But, I will focus to male, not female. Okay, I said every human (or in exactly male) has potency to be bisexual, it's because I don't believe that being bisexual is genetically determined.

A boy is born as heterosexual, but external factors can makes him has tendency to like same gender too (I use "tendency" in this matter). Which the most important factor is sexual harassment from older men around him. Not always in form of 'raped', but in can be kissed, be touched, hugged, etc. Often it's happen when this boy haven't reach puberty age and he doesn't realize that what he experienced is sexual harassment. Later when he is growing older and start to know about sex, he can be be realize that kiss, touch, and hug he ever received were different than kiss, touch and hug he received from his parents.

This sexual harassment can be continued when he is teen, maybe by other older men. He maybe dislike this treatment, but this treatment still can affect his personality which then he start to have interest to 'close' with man. So, the door to homosexual activity start to be opened for him.

But there is factor that can prevent him open this door wider and enter in, his view on homosexuality. If he believe that homosexuality is wrong and forbidden, then he will focus to raise his tendency to heterosexual.

Now imagine if he has been taught that homosexuality is normal and acceptable?. Very possible he will not hesitate to start his homosexual activity if the get a chance. And unfortunately, there are always people who can give him a chance.

 

[جوري]

I don't agree with much of what you've written as stated prior is your opinion, conjectural and not factual!
I am not interested in humanizing a sin you can humanize any sin - it's in the wording and it's the language of the devil - I don't invite it and not interested in it also not interested in it being taught to children and at the age of innocence!
I'd read about homosexuality in Saudi Arabia as a child it never registered with me and I didn't even know how it was performed until I was told by a teacher in health ed in a western country!
Pls don't give me bull about lack of choices when the choice isn't even on the table and has to be introduced!
Shame and shame on people who perpetuate this militant deviant agenda!

 

[observer]

It is ok for you to feel this is normal. It isn't OK for you to impose that this is normal upon everyone else.
Also people should make friends with whom they choose.
Some kids have foul mouths in my niece's school naturally her mother doesn't want her to pick up bad words. If some are promiscuous she has a right to steer her away as well, if they're having homosexual tendencies or making her uncomfortable in any way shape or form or in a manner not congruent to her beliefs then she has a right to not let her mix with those either. That too is normal and NO being left handed or right handed has nothing to do with lewd sexual proclivities!

But the only reason you say it's not normal is because of your religion. If you don't like homosexuality for that reason, fine. But kids need to be taught that there are all kinds of people in this world who are worthy of their respect even if you disagree with their ways. I don't really like religion, but my kids will **** sure grow up knowing that they should respect those who are religious and who are different from themselves.

I don't say how a gay couple living together in a loving relationship is any more lewd than a heterosexual couple doing the same. Love is love at the end of the day - I would suggest that saying that they should be killed for their actions is far, far worse than them having that relationship.

There is no choice in being gay - just look at the horrible suffering of gay people in the past who have tried to deny their homosexuality because of the society they lived in. They wanted to be straight, to be "normal". If they had a choice, they would have chosen to be so.

 

[جوري]

But the only reason you say it's not normal is because of your religion. so.

Nope I find it cringe worthy and unnatural regardless of religion but religion is reason enough!
Try to cut down on the sermon I find it strange you can write so much and say so little that's worth while.

 

[Independent]

We all suffer for love ah love get over it and cut the crap of how it isn't a choice !

Most homosexuals don't 'choose' to be homosexual - but yes they have a choice whether to commit a homosexual act. This would be the same for a heterosexual person.

However, for a homosexual, this situation is more extreme than the equivalent for a celibate heterosexual. A homosexual in a Muslim society must hide their very nature. They know this is forever, not just till they marry. They must avoid all form of emotional contact, not just sex itself. Yet there is so much more to human intimacy than just sex.

It's naive in the extreme to think that, simply by not allowing homosexuality to be mentioned, it will just go away. Looking through some of the personal stories from Muslims on the web, their position is appalling. In some cases other people, or their own family, have guessed their homosexual nature even before they knew it themselves and routinely humiliate them for it. The ideal Islamic position of not looking into other people's sins is not followed. Is it realistic to believe it ever could be followed in this kind of situation? There has to be a better way of doing things.

The very countries that take a severe attitude to homosexuality also tend to be those that control their children's marriages. The pressure will come for a homosexual son or daughter to marry. How can they dare to give the reason why they don't want to? It's literally suicide to say it. This makes their life a misery, and potentially the life of the unfortunate heterosexual spouse they will be obliged to marry. What a pointless sequence of human tragedies.

 

[جوري]

Love the part about their position being more extreme - are you trying to say they're not human?
I've never encountered a culture so obsessed with lewd sex it has to search the web for it!
Homosexuality is very much a choice in thought and act until you're capable of locating the specific loci of the gene that causes it- psychological illnesses are just that an obsession of the mind- try to substitute pedophile or necrophilia or even pedarest with the above and convince yourself of it with same fever you're trying to convince us of!

Another useless sermon jam packed with nothing!

 

[Independent]

I've never encountered a culture so obsessed with lewd sex it has to search the web for it!

in fact Muslim countries regularly top the charts for online search of gay sex terms:
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/201...istan-google-searches-gay-porn_n_3440586.html

No matter how oppressive or difficult you make it, homosexuality will still occur. The only difference is whether it is kept secret or not.

Homosexuality is very much a choice in thought and act until you're capable of locating the specific loci of the gene that causes i

Arguing about the science of homosexual proclivity is a waste of time until/unless research progresses. Genetics may not be the whole answer anyway - hormonal imbalances caused by temporary stress factors may also be relevant. But what is not in doubt is that many individuals are on homosexual path at a pre-sexual stage, before they even know what sex is, just as heterosexuals are set on their path, before they know what sex is. Any explanation that fails to take account of this is simply not a sufficient explanation.

 

[جوري]

in fact Muslim countries regularly top the charts for online search of gay sex terms:
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/201...istan-google-searches-gay-porn_n_3440586.html

No matter how oppressive or difficult you make it, homosexuality will still occur. The only difference is whether it is kept secret or not.

It is interesting that the research is coming out of the HF not Pakistan..
it isn't like people can change their IP address and all web searches for porn are done by honest people!
Also is porn homosexuality here or how are you going to tie this in for us? I am obviously discussing your obsession with homos not pubertal teenagers obsession with female genitalia

Arguing about the science of homosexual proclivity is a waste of time until/unless research progresses. Genetics may not be the whole answer anyway - hormonal imbalances caused by temporary stress factors may also be relevant. But what is not in doubt is that many individuals are on homosexual path at a pre-sexual stage, before they even know what sex is, just as heterosexuals are set on their path, before they know what sex is. Any explanation that fails to take account of this is simply not a sufficient explanation.

What does that mean 'hormonal imbalance' in this case mean? care t discuss specific hormones and how they play a role per your understanding of third party articles you enjoy sharing but have no understanding of content as is apparent from the great deal of fluff you flood this forum with?

 

[Independent]

It is interesting that the research is coming out of the HF not Pakistan..

Google makes its search trends available to anyone, anywhere. It doesn't matter where you check it from.

is porn homosexuality here

If someone is searching for gay porn, it's reasonable to conclude that they are gay. Or it is if you have any power of reason yourself.

What does that mean 'hormonal imbalance' in this case mean?

i repeat for the third time, until science makes some more progress in research, it's a waste of time looking for answers here. But hormonal imbalances have been suggested as another factor and are being researched. Either way, we already know from innumerable testimonies that many gays were on a homosexual path from a pres-sexual age so whether this is caused by genetic or other factors is, literally, academic, which you are welcome to pursue yourself if you're interested.

 

[ardianto]

If someone is searching for gay porn, it's reasonable to conclude that they are gay.

Not always. Teen boys with heterosexual orientation can be curious about homosexuality too.

Homosexuality was a common discussed topic among youth when I was young. It's because we knew that's real. Few of my friends finally fell into homosexuality activities with gays, it's because those gays were really saw us as 'target'.

So, what's your comment about behavior of gays that try to drag young boys to their world?.

 

[Independent]

So, what's your comment about behavior of gays that try to drag young boys to their world?.

I would oppose it and the law makes it difficult. The age of consent in the UK is 16. However, for homosexuals, there is a higher limit of 18 if the other person is an older man. So, the law makes it illegal for older men to seduce younger boys (although of course the law can be broken, but that's true for any law).

I haven't seen any evidence in the UK that this is a significant problem, except in cases of youths who are already vulnerable for other reasons (living in care etc). But in this case, both the girls and the boys are in danger - it's far from just a gay problem. There have been a few cases recently that show that people are targeting young people in care for sexual coercion.

I know that in some countries at different times in history there is almost a tradition of older man, young boy sex which is not even considered as gay at all. This tradition has never really existed in the UK (although young boys are considered attractive just as young girls are - the problem is the same.)

 

[~Zaria~]

Greetings,

Once again, we need to remind our non-muslim and atheist friends that:

The commands of Allah and His messenger (sallalahu alaihi wasalam) are not up for debate.
​

If Allah has forbidden homosexual relations.....then it means that it is forbidden - under any circumstance, despite any 'internal struggle' of being attracted towards the same sex, irrespective of any history of sexual molestation as a child/ adolescent/ adult.

There are no concessions for engaging in any type of homosexual act in Islam.

In view of the above, these types of views are best saved for another type of forum, whose members are not in Submission to the Will of Alllah:

Also, what is happening here is not 'sex education' but provision of alternative role models......

As for the old question are people gay by nature or nurture: the scientific debate is ongoing and inconclusive.

I don't say how a gay couple living together in a loving relationship is any more lewd than a heterosexual couple doing the same. Love is love at the end of the day - I would suggest that saying that they should be killed for their actions is far, far worse than them having that relationship.

There is no choice in being gay - just look at the horrible suffering of gay people in the past who have tried to deny their homosexuality because of the society they lived in. They wanted to be straight, to be "normal". If they had a choice, they would have chosen to be so.

i repeat for the third time, until science makes some more progress in research, it's a waste of time looking for answers here. But hormonal imbalances have been suggested as another factor and are being researched. Either way, we already know from innumerable testimonies that many gays were on a homosexual path from a pres-sexual age so whether this is caused by genetic or other factors is, literally, academic, which you are welcome to pursue yourself if you're interested.

^ These types of statements, attempt to make acceptable that which our Creator has already declared as UN-acceptable.

There is no debate about this issue from an islamic perspective.

Please respect this. And we urge you to take these self-deduced laws for living to another group/ forum, where you will be free to debate whether or not there are genetic/ hormonal/ environmental explanations for people to seek relations with the same gender.

Many thanks,

Peace

 

[جوري]

Google makes its search trends available to anyone, anywhere. It doesn't matter where you check it from.

if google makes it available to anyone anywhere, then why are you specific about the where are you merely trying to deflect your own perversion?

If someone is searching for gay porn, it's reasonable to conclude that they are gay. Or it is if you have any power of reason yourself.

This topic is about homosexuality not porn, thus I am not sure why you'd to introduce pakistan or google into this, you're welcome to start another topic but not meander my thread!

i repeat for the third time, until science makes some more progress in research, it's a waste of time looking for answers here. But hormonal imbalances have been suggested as another factor and are being researched. Either way, we already know from innumerable testimonies that many gays were on a homosexual path from a pres-sexual age so whether this is caused by genetic or other factors is, literally, academic, which you are welcome to pursue yourself if you're interested.

Science will find the answers the same day it finds a 'cure' for the common cold. This happens to be my area of expertise which is obvious as to why you don't wish to gauge this topic in any depth as it will expose you as a fraudster so you've to make it riddled and wrought with smarmy specious claims which you can't back up!


best,

 

[observer]

Once again, we need to remind our non-muslim and atheist friends that:

The commands of Allah and His messenger (sallalahu alaihi wasalam) are not up for debate.

But no-one is asking you to debate them, or change islam.

If you feel homosexuals are ungodly then that's fine. But you live in a world along with homosexuals which is not ruled by islam, so respect and understanding is neccessary. I really fail to see why that's so difficult - disagreement is inevitable both within and between communities but why can mutual respect not be offered?

 

[جوري]

Homos should start respecting themselves by keeping their sex lives private!
No one asks for respect for their sexual proclivities truly you're a hoot!