How Do Mulsims Resolve the Eyewitness Testimony of the Disciples?

No we don't have to prove Jesus was resurrected to prove Islam is false. All we need to do to prove Islam is false is that Jesus died on the cross because Islam says he didn't.


Love that logic.. does that mean Judaism is also false? They don't seem to believe in your mangod fiasco either..
dude take a few lessons in logic and the art of persuasion.. although in order for speech to have any impression, it still has to have at least one element of logic..

have a good one..
 
If you can lose salvation then salvation is by works. A cult is a group that believe something without evidence. Hence, Islam is a cult, because it believes didn't die on the cross without any evidence.

actually a cult is much more than the above mentioned starting with and not limited to a very small following.. can't be the case for a religion of 1.86 billion and the fastest growing.. Now I am not sure what constitutes evidence for you? you seem either unwilling or unable to read volumes of literature that are quite sound and contrary to your very faulty beliefs. You're so poorly ailing that I truly hope for your religion' sake and credibility that you're not a representative, you're one pathetic prototype of a slobbering bible thumper!

all the best
 
τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ;1407141 said:
Love that logic.. does that mean Judaism is also false? They don't seem to believe in your mangod fiasco either.. dude take a few lessons in logic and the art of persuasion.. although in order for speech to have any impression, it still has to have at least one element of logic.. have a good one..
The OT Scriptures are true, they would accept the Lord Jesus as Savior, but Judaism today is not of Christ so it is false. It is like Islam, it rejects Jesus is God and their atoning sacrifice of the Messiah which the OT predicts. They reject their own suffering servant, Son of Man.

You should never be so evil as to ask someone to believe a faith that says Jesus didn't die on the cross when there is no evidence for this allegation. We have tonnes of evidence Jesus died on the cross, so the issue is not whether Jesus died on the cross or if Islam is false, for it most certainly is.
 
The OT Scriptures are true, they would accept the Lord Jesus as Savior, but Judaism today is not of Christ so it is false. It is like Islam, it rejects Jesus is God and their atoning sacrifice of the Messiah which the OT predicts. They reject their own suffering servant, Son of Man. You should never be so evil as to ask someone to believe a faith that says Jesus didn't die on the cross when there is no evidence for this allegation. We have tonnes of evidence Jesus died on the cross, so the issue is not whether Jesus died on the cross or if Islam is false, for it most certainly is.


so Judaism is false, Mandeans are false, sabeans are false, Muslims are false, though they're all Abrahamic religions believing in ONE indivisible God and only Christianity is correct? .. seems to me that not only are you utterly outnumbered but totally monolithic in your polytheistic mangod beliefs.. hmmmmmmmmm

all the best
 
τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ;1407142 said:
actually a cult is much more than the above mentioned starting with and not limited to a very small following.. can't be the case for a religion of 1.86 billion and the fastest growing.. Now I am not sure what constitutes evidence for you? you seem either unwilling or unable to read volumes of literature that are quite sound and contrary to your very faulty beliefs. You're so poorly ailing that I truly hope for your religion' sake and credibility that you're not a representative, you're one pathetic prototype of a slobbering bible thumper!

all the best
A cult is not restricted by size. All you need to do to be a cult is to believe something you have no evidence for which is a major tenent of your faith. Claiming Jesus didn't die on the cross with no evidence is what makes Islam a cult. No historian cares what some guy in a cave said six centuries later without any evidence.

There are no primary sources about Jesus claiming he didn' die on the cross.

Islam has no credibility. It is a cult without evidence. You are wrong to ask people to believe in blindly that which is false. That's Satan's doing.
 
τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ;1407145 said:
so Judaism is false, Mandeans are false, sabeans are false, Muslims are false, though they're all Abrahamic religions believing in ONE indivisible God and only Christianity is correct? .. seems to me that not only are you utterly outnumbered but totally monolithic in your polytheistic mangod beliefs.. hmmmmmmmmm

all the best
Abraham would have accepted Christ as God, the Son of Man Daniel prophesied, who became the once-for-all sacrifice.

Indeed Christians are outnumbered just as the Bible says we are a "little flock" (Luke 12.32), but praise the Lord when Jesus returns (Tribulation is 2,520 days from Feast of Trumpets Sept. 14, 2015 to Aug. 7, 2022 Tisha B'Av), He destroys those religions.

There is nothing you can do to stop this though your cult will try.
 
All I ask is for you to pray on what I have said and make a promise to yourself to read the whole Bible within 2 or 3 years from start to finish with a good study Bible, and if you do that, you'll be coming to Christ with an honest and accept Him as God, your Lord and Savior. Amen.
 
All I ask is for you to pray on what I have said and make a promise to yourself to read the whole Bible .



You seem upset, and we'd like to help you-- I can write you a prescription for Olanzapine or do you prefer a Fluphenazine Decanoate so you wouldn't have such terrible lapses.. I mean your exasperation is fit to land you at Sheppard's pratt!

all the best
 
If you can lose salvation then salvation is by works. A cult is a group that believe something without evidence. Hence, Islam is a cult, because it believes didn't die on the cross without any evidence.

It takes a very high degree of arrogance and an inflated ego to believe you can not lose salvation. That is a pitfall that enslaves bible only christians who never learn any church doctrine or the actual teachings of Christianity. Also a reason why the Preachers of the so called Fundementalist churches believe they follow true Christianity and the other 29,999 denominations are in error. Yes there are a minimum of 30,000 Christian denominations in the US alone. Which one of them is the one that follows Jesus(as)

We have the word of Allaah(swt) that Jesus(as) did not die. Once a person proves to himself that the Qur'an is the word of God(swt) and not the word of Muhammad. There is no need to prove anything in the Qur'an. However as Muslims we are encouraged to verify all things we believe. Islam encourages informed faith, not blind faith.
 
All I ask is for you to pray on what I have said and make a promise to yourself to read the whole Bible within 2 or 3 years from start to finish with a good study Bible, and if you do that, you'll be coming to Christ with an honest and accept Him as God, your Lord and Savior. Amen.



Many of us here have done exactly as you asked us to. Just ask unc. Woodrow, br. MustafaMc, sis. Mila, etc etc.

Now to return the favor, pray to God and make a promise to yourself to read the whole translations and tafseers of the Qur'an within 2 to 3 years from start to finish with a good study of ahadeeth and the seerah (biography of the prophet SAW), and if you do that, you'll be coming to God with an honest and accept Him as God, your Lord and Savior. Ameen.
 
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John the Baptist was pointing to Jesus, "Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him [Jesus]" (John 3.28). John the Apostle records this in his gospel account. John is the disciple whom Jesus loved most.

in order for John's statement to be "contemporaneous," it would have to have been recorded, according to you, around the year 30 CE. the Gospel labeled "according to John is dated around 95 CE. that's about 65 years later, ergo NOT contemporaneous.


The Bible is full of contemporaneous accounts of the life of Jesus.

John the Apostle places himself at the cross when Jesus died with the women specifically mentioned by name, including Jesus' mother. All the books of the Bible were written down right when their events occurred or shortly thereafter. Nobody in antiquity is so well documented.

these myths were NOT, according to Biblical Scholars, written down until 3 decades after Jesus' Earthly ministry. ergo NOT contemporaneous.


We don't know which of the 4 gospels came first, but we do know they were all written down nearly right when the events occurred. Mark writes about the death of Jesus on the cross and said Jesus was resurrected and where to go so see Him. Mark 16 gives some resurrection appearances. This was a retrieved chapter that apparently was lost. Since all the disciples died around 65 AD, all the books of the NT were written before then except for Revelation, John the Apostle wrote around 95 AD.

if "ALL the disciples died around 65 AD," how did John write a book in 95 CE? ;D

Acts written by Luke recounts many of the works and testimony of Paul which do not differ with the experiences of the Apostles. Whether you have the gospels only or Paul's writings only or Peter's writings only or John's writing only, the eyewitness testimony and message is the same in setting up the first churches. Paul's role was to travel to the Gentiles to set up the churches outside of Judea to spread the gospel of salvation to the world.

all of the "gospels" were written anonymously. deciding to give them their current monikers didn't happen until the mid-2nd century CE.



Jesus was speaking of God the Father, not God the Son, as He showed perfect obedience unto the Father as only God the Son could do. Jesus is God the Son because He forgave sins, which only God can do, and when the scribes wanted to kill Jesus for being the Forgiver of sins, they accused him of claiming to be God, "who can forgive sins but God only?" (Mark 2.7). Jesus responded, "And immediately Jesus, perceiving in his spirit that they thus questioned within themselves, said to them, "Why do you question thus in your hearts?" (v.8). Now "ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy)" (v.10) when he healed him.
Nonetheless wrong.
It is a myth that Jesus didn't die on the cross. An old wives tale without evidence or support overturn the death that Jesus endured on the cross for the sins of the world.

actually, it is the crucifiction that is without contemporaneous evidence.


as Muslims, we are in agreement with those statements.

as for the other pagan myths you believe, we are NOT in agreement. we see no valid "evidence" for them.

peace
[/QUOTE]

YAWNS...

Uncle Woodrow, can you put some papers down? the little puppy appears to be urinating all over the place!

Since Irenaeus refutes someone taking Jesus' place, then that goes against what Muslims believe. And any gnostic texts centuries later are irrelevant since they have no impact on the primary sources of the New Testaement and early church fathers.

Since there is no evidence to claim Jesus die on the cross, then He most certainly died on the cross. You're in doubt about Jesus not having died on the cross.

that's actually a non-sequitor. how does NO evidence equal evidence?

Christians never followed the Gospel of Thomas (not Thomas in the Bible), Gospel of Peter (that's not 1 and 2 Peter), nor the gospel of Barnabas (not the Barnabas in the Bible). Christians already had the cannon and the 66 books of the Bible determined before the end of the 1st century. The Gospel of Thomas, Peter and Barnabas differ from every book of the Bible. Remember, gnostic texts centuries later are irrelevant just as the Qu'ran since it is too late to the ball game. Basically everything you said was wishful thinking and goes completely contrary to the evidence because you don't want to appreciate you are sinner in need of salvation, and only God can fulfill than through His only begotten Son by shedding His precious blood for the forgiveness of sins and give eternal life. Only God can take upon the sins of the world, and a just punishment is needed for sin which Jesus in our place saves us from Hell whosoever is willing to believe on Him as He really is, the 2nd Person of the Trinity.

actually, Sparky, the 1st recorded canon would be that of Marcion, who only put 11 Books in the NT. NEXT would be Iranaeus only confirms 21 books of the NT. it is not until the late 4th Century that Athanasius, while in exile, lists the books "currently' considered the NT.

http://www.bible-researcher.com/canon3.html

as for the 66 books you claim canonized in the 1st Century, THAT didn't happen until the Middle Ages, 700 years AFTER the completion of the Qur'an!

when you get out of Junior High School, why don't you stop back by and let us know how you are doing?
 
It takes a very high degree of arrogance and an inflated ego to believe you can not lose salvation. That is a pitfall that enslaves bible only christians who never learn any church doctrine or the actual teachings of Christianity. Also a reason why the Preachers of the so called Fundementalist churches believe they follow true Christianity and the other 29,999 denominations are in error. Yes there are a minimum of 30,000 Christian denominations in the US alone. Which one of them is the one that follows Jesus(as)

We have the word of Allaah(swt) that Jesus(as) did not die. Once a person proves to himself that the Qur'an is the word of God(swt) and not the word of Muhammad. There is no need to prove anything in the Qur'an. However as Muslims we are encouraged to verify all things we believe. Islam encourages informed faith, not blind faith.
When God says something, He means it. When he says those who believe in Him have eternal life that can never be lost, "they shall never perish" (John 10.28). Many people don't want trust in this God and that's their choice.

How man denominations are in there in Islam? It's at least 10,000, not as many because Islam only has half the number in Christendom but did you know the Bible says don't say I of Apollos or I of Cephas, meaning this or that denomination.

God of the Bible is against denominations, so true believers are those who are not part of a denomination. Can you say the same?


How do we know Allah is not Satan, because God provides evidence and Satan doesn. We have tonnes of evidence Jesus died on the cross. Verify this. Verify and prove you have no evidence in your claim Jesus didn't die. Don't give into the evil spirit, for you reject His atoning sacrifice in paying the ransom for your sins, there is no other way to be forgiven and saved.

You seem frustrated in your faith without evidence, fully of doubt.
 
Hey buddy, would you mind telling us what exactly you know (or rather, what you think you know) about Islam and Muslims? I'm curious. Maybe we can help teach you something so you can stop embarrassing yourself with this rubbish...

Also, is all this a result of your own thought and research, or are you just regurgitating what was fed to you from a church somewhere?
 
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the 1st recorded canon would be that of Marcion, who only put 11 Books in the NT. NEXT would be Iranaeus only confirms 21 books of the NT. it is not until the late 4th Century that Athanasius, while in exile, lists the books "currently' considered the NT.

as for the 66 books you claim canonized in the 1st Century, THAT didn't happen until the Middle Ages, 700 years AFTER the completion of the Qur'an!

when you get out of Junior High School, why don't you stop back by and let us know how you are doing?
You don't need to worry about when it was compiled. It's clear the 66 books are in complete agreement.

The important thing is all those books were written before 65 AD except John. Even a non-Christian like Marcion is compiling books at 85 AD you say so that tells you the books were established long before then.

When did John write the gospel of John. Not before 30 AD because Jesus died in 33 AD. John wrote John in 33 AD not 30 AD.
 
Hey buddy, would you mind telling us what exactly you know about Islam and Muslims? I'm curious.
I know that Islam is false because it has no evidence Jesus didn't die on the cross. That's all I need to know. I know historians also give the Qu'ran no consideration because it is so far removed from the primary sources.
 
I know that Islam is false because it has no evidence Jesus didn't die on the cross. That's all I need to know. I know historians also give the Qu'ran no consideration because it is so far removed from the primary sources.

So in other words... You know nothing. Nice.
 
Many of us here have done exactly as you asked us to. Just ask unc. Woodrow, br. MustafaMc, sis. Mila, etc etc.

Now to return the favor, pray to God and make a promise to yourself to read the whole translations and tafseers of the Qur'an within 2 to 3 years from start to finish with a good study of ahadeeth and the seerah (biography of the prophet SAW), and if you do that, you'll be coming to God with an honest and accept Him as God, your Lord and Savior. Ameen.
In order for someone to be interested in reading the Qu'ran you would need to give them a compelling argument and evidence for Jesus not dying on the cross to overturn all the evidence in the primary sources, since it is wrong to ask people to believe in your cult blindly. You should feel guilty when you don't have reason but just asserting blindly. What love is that? Any old cult could start that way.

A loving God would never ask someone to believe in someting blindly, but Satan would, that's how I know Allah is Satan.



Allah is Satan

The name Allah is derived from the Hebrew Chaldee word Halal which is the NAME OF SATAN in the scriptures in Isaiah 14:12 "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer (HALAL), son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!"

Babylon worshiped the moon god. Arabia is the daughter of Babylon. Halal is also an Arab word which means "crescent moon". Muslims use the crescent moon on most of their flags. Halal also means to Muslims "of or being meat slaughtered in the prescribed way."

In the Koran, Allah has 99 names. Muhammad is the son of Abdulah the servant of Allah. So how could Muhammad have introduced Allah if his father's name is the slave of Allah? It is a Babylonian religion that practiced the same pilgrimage techniques.

The Islamic curtain is more impenetrable than the iron curtain. How could we have stopped WWII from happening and the subsequent iron curtain? The allies would have had to attack Germany years before 1939, noticing they were building their military to unreasonable levels.

Likewise, in order to stop the many Germany's of Islam that want to exterminate the Jews and take over the world by the mighty sword, the countries of the world are going to have to attack Muslim countries sooner the better or the inevitable war will be more devastating.

If someone breaks into your home like Muhammadistic suicide mass murderers and tries to kill your loved ones and you just turn the other cheek, you are guilty.

How long must Israel, on a sliver of land surround by Muslim coutnries, have to put up with every ten years a major military offensive attack from Islam?

Muslims are mercilessly trying to shove Israel into the Mediterranean Sea. What love is that?

I really see no solution but USA and the EU will have to invade Iran. They have left them no choice.​
 
When God says something, He means it. When he says those who believe in Him have eternal life that can never be lost, "they shall never perish" (John 10.28). Many people don't want trust in this God and that's their choice.

How man denominations are in there in Islam? It's at least 10,000, not as many because Islam only has half the number in Christendom but did you know the Bible says don't say I of Apollos or I of Cephas, meaning this or that denomination.

God of the Bible is against denominations, so true believers are those who are not part of a denomination. Can you say the same?


How do we know Allah is not Satan, because God provides evidence and Satan doesn. We have tonnes of evidence Jesus died on the cross. Verify this. Verify and prove you have no evidence in your claim Jesus didn't die. Don't give into the evil spirit, for you reject His atoning sacrifice in paying the ransom for your sins, there is no other way to be forgiven and saved.

You seem frustrated in your faith without evidence, fully of doubt.

2 immediate errors come to view immediately. the number of Muslims world wide now exceed the number of Christians, To compound that slightly over 1/2 the number of Christians world wide are Roman Catholic, which many of the bible based Christians claim are not Christian. Roughly 85% of the World's Muslims are Sunni and follow the Hanafi Madhab. There are no denominations in Islam, when a person says the shahadah with sincerity, that person is Muslim. there is no adjective in front of Muslim or Islam.

Did you know that Jesus(as) spoke Aramaic and the Aramaic name for God is Allah? Did you know that in Matthew 27:46 the Aramaic phrase transliterated into the Roman/English alphabet as “Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?” The Eloi written in Aramaic is the letter Aleph Lam Aleph Ha and pronounced Allah. did you know all Arabic and Aramaic written Bibles use the name Allah. Did you know that when you refer to Allah as Satan you are calling the God Jesus(as) worshiped Satan as Jesus also called Him Allah. Did you know the word God never appeared in any Bible until the 15th Century in the third edition of the KJV. Did you know the name God came from the German word Gott and German is an Indo-European language derived from Farsi(Aryan aka Iranian) plus Hindi and Gott was originally the name of the Hindu God Vishnu?

Frustrated in my faith? No Muslim is frustrated in Islam, it is not a blind faith religion, none of us follow any human clergy. There is no clergy in Islam. We each are individually responsible for learning and verifying the truth. But we are permitted to seek the guidance of scholars in our quest to learn and verify what we have been told or find in our searching. Every Muslim has a firm faith that all who die as a Muslim will go to heaven. This is from the mercy, justice and unlimited forgiveness of Allaah(swt), not from anything we do or deserve.

Do you even have any concept of what the pillars of faith are that all Muslims follow? No Muslim believes that the pillers will get anybody into heaven, but they are the physical and visible aspects of being Muslim.

Shahada


Shahadah is a saying professing monotheism and accepting Muhammad as God's messenger. The shahadah is a set statement normally recited in Arabic: (ašhadu an) lā ilāha illá l-Lāhi wa (ashhadu 'anna) Muḥammadan rasūlu l-Lāhi "(I profess that) there is no god but Allah and Muhammad is the messenger of God." Also, it is said that when dying one should recite this declaration of faith. In Azaan (call to prayer) it is recited. When a person wishes to convert religions they should recite this affirmation and believe in it.

Salat


Salat is the Islamic prayer. Salat consists of five daily prayers: Fajr, Dhuhr, Asr, Maghrib, and Isha'a. Fajr is performed at dawn, Dhuhr is a noon prayer, Asr is performed in the afternoon, Maghrib is the sunset prayer, and Isha'a is the evening prayer. Each prayer consists of a certain amount of rakaʿāt. A prayer either consists of two, three, or four rakaʿāt. All of these prayers are recited while facing the Ka'bah in Mecca. Muslims must wash themselves before prayer. The prayer is accompanied by a series of set positions including; bowing, standing, prostrating and sits.

Sawm

Muslims traditionally break their fasts in the month of Ramadan with dates as was the recorded practice (Sunnah) of Muhammad.

Three types of fasting (Sawm) are recognized by the Qur'an: Ritual fasting, fasting as compensation for repentance (both from sura Al-Baqara) and ascetic fasting (from Al-Ahzab).

Ritual fasting is an obligatory act during the month of Ramadan. Muslims must abstain from food, drink, and sexual intercourse from dawn to dusk during this month, and are to be especially mindful of other sins. Fasting is necessary for every Muslim over the age of 11.

The fast is meant to allow Muslims to seek nearness to God, to express their gratitude to and dependence on him, atone for their past sins, and to remind them of the needy.During Ramadan, Muslims are also expected to put more effort into following the teachings of Islam by refraining from violence, anger, envy, greed, lust, profane language, gossip and to try to get along with fellow Muslims better. In addition, all obscene and irreligious sights and sounds are to be avoided.

Fasting during Ramadan is obligatory, but is forbidden for several groups for whom it would be very dangerous and excessively problematic. These include pre-pubescent children, those with a medical condition such as diabetes, elderly people, and pregnant or breastfeeding women. Observing fasts is not permitted for menstruating women. Other individuals for whom it is considered acceptable not to fast are those who are ill or traveling. Missing fasts usually must be made up for soon afterward, although the exact requirements vary according to circumstance.

Zakāt


Zakāt or alms-giving is the practice of charitable giving by Muslims based on accumulated wealth, and is obligatory for all who are able to do so. It is considered to be a personal responsibility for Muslims to ease economic hardship for others and eliminate inequality. Zakat consists of spending 2.5% of one's wealth for the benefit of the poor or needy, including slaves, debtors and travelers. A Muslim may also donate more as an act of voluntary charity (sadaqah), rather than to achieve additional divine reward. There are two main types of Zakat. First, there is the kajj, which is a fixed amount based on the cost of food that is paid during the month of Ramadan by the head of a family for himself and his dependents. Second, there is the Zakat on wealth, which covers money made in business, savings, income, and so on. In current usage Zakat is treated as a 2.5% collection on most valuables and savings held for a full lunar year, as long as the total value is more than a basic minimum known as nisab (3 ounces (85.05 g)). As of 2 July 2010, nisab is approximately $3,275 or an equivalent amount in any other currency. Many Shi'ites are expected to pay an additional amount in the form of a khums tax, which they consider to be a separate ritual practice.

There are four principles that should be followed when giving the Zakat:

1. The giver must declare to God his intention to give the Zakat.
2. The Zakat must be paid on the day that it is due.
3. Payment must be in kind. This means if one is wealthy then he needs to pay 2.5% of his income. If he does not have much money, he needs to pay in a different way such as good deeds and good behavior toward others.
4. The Zakat must be distributed in the community from which it was taken.

Hajj



The Hajj is a pilgrimage that occurs during the Islamic month of Dhu al-Hijjah to the holy city of Mecca, and derives from an ancient Arab practice. Every able-bodied Muslim is obliged to make the pilgrimage to Mecca at least once in their lifetime if he or she can afford it. When the pilgrim is around 10 km (6.2 mi) from Mecca, he must dress in Ihram clothing, which consists of two white sheets. Both men and women are required to make the pilgrimage to Mecca. After a Muslim makes the trip to Mecca, he/she is known as a hajj/hajja (one who made the pilgrimage to Mecca). The main rituals of the Hajj include walking seven times around the Kaaba, touching the Black Stone, traveling seven times between Mount Safa and Mount Marwah, and symbolically stoning the Devil in Mina.

The pilgrim, or the haji, is honoured in their community. Islamic teachers say that the Hajj should be an expression of devotion to God, not a means to gain social standing. The believer should be self-aware and examine their intentions in performing the pilgrimage. This should lead to constant striving for self-improvement. A pilgrimage made at any time other than the Hajj season is called an Umrah, and while not mandatory is strongly recommended.
 

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