How do we know that the Koran is true?
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Slavery gradually disappeared, just as alcohol was abolished step-by-step. You cannot suddenly change an entire people overnight by taking everything away from them that they used to base their livelihoods around. That is the reason why slavery was not abolished during Muhammad's time. Islam is a religion of ease, not a religion of difficulty.
EDIT: I'd also like to add that the slavery that existed back then was not like American slavery. Not to say that suddenly slavery is OK, but the slavery that existed then was not based on racism and slaves were able to earn their freedom. Quite different from the slavery most people think of when that word is mentioned.
EDIT: I'd also like to add that the slavery that existed back then was not like American slavery. Not to say that suddenly slavery is OK, but the slavery that existed then was not based on racism and slaves were able to earn their freedom. Quite different from the slavery most people think of when that word is mentioned.
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Right.
Similarly, you must believe that the ancient Greeks were not geocentrists, but rather were referring to the sun's revolution around the center of the galaxy. The same goes with the ancient Babylonians and Hindus, who also talked about the sun's "course" and "orbit."
Also, I pose the same challenge to you as I did to imam. Find me a single Muslim scholar, pre-Copernicus, who thought the earth revolved around the sun. A single one.
Please write out the specific claims about embryology you think the Quran is making.
As far as I can tell, the only relevant claim these verses make is that the embryo changes form over time (that is, it doesn't start out as a "miniature human.") This is exactly what Galen says, and I did quote him.
You probably won't find one. The reason is that the Qur'an is not a book of science, but a book of signs. It is meant to confirm phenomenon we can observe in nature which have only recently been explained, but it is not used as the explanation itself.
People don't go looking through the Qur'an to find scientific explanations for things.
Now I ask thee, when does the theory of Sun's revolution came to be found?. It was found way forward of the Heliosentris theory isn't it?
Okay, now, let's try to live at the time of Jahiliyyah people, if Allahu Ta'ala told them about the rotation of the earth, then they will be confuse.
These are the Miracle of Science in Al Qur'an:
National Geographic: The Iron (Fe) Came From Outer Space As In Al Qur'an
National Geographic just couple days back give the show that iron (Ferum) actually came down from the outer space. To show the similarities, here is from a scripture source :
We sent aforetime our messengers with Clear Signs and sent down with them the Book and the Balance (of Right and Wrong), that men may stand forth in justice; and We sent down Iron (wa anzalna hadiid), in which is (material for) mighty war, as well as many benefits for mankind, that Allah may test who it is that will help, Unseen, Him and His messengers: For Allah is Full of Strength, Exalted in Might (and able to enforce His Will) (QS.Al Hadid 57:25).
There is no Book of Religion on earth that say this fact as Al Qur’an does
Here I post verses inside Al Qur'an which considered to be truthfully scientific by SCIENTISTS:
1. Al-Insân (76)
002. Verily We created Man from a drop of mingled sperm (AMSYAJ), in order to try him: So We gave him (the gifts), of Hearing and Sight.
Mani (sperm) is created through mingle of prostates and other male reproduction glands.
2. Adz Dzariyaat (51)
047. With power and skill did We construct the Firmament: for it is We Who create the vastness of pace.
QUOTE: ."...the vastness of pace" IS THE THEORY OF EXPANSION OF UNIVERSE.
3. Al Hijr (15)
022. And We send the fecundating winds, then cause the rain to descend from the sky, therewith providing you with water (in abundance), though ye are not the guardians of its stores.
QUOTE: "... the fecundating winds..." IS THE THEORY OF MARRIAGE BETWEEN WIND AND THE SEA'S WATER WHICH VAPORISHES WITH THE CLOUD.
4. Al Jatsiyah (45)
005. And in the alternation of Night and Day, and the fact that Allah sends down Sustenance from the sky, and revives therewith the earth after its death, and in the change of the winds,- are Signs for those that are wise.
THAT VERSE IS ABOUT THE "LIFE AND DEATH OF THE UNIVERSE".
EL NINO HAPPENS BECAUSE "THE WIND STOP"
QUOTE: "... and in the change of the winds,..."
5. Al Baqarah (2)
022. Who has made the earth your couch, and the heavens your canopy; and sent down rain from the heavens; and brought forth therewith Fruits for your sustenance; then set not up rivals unto Allah when ye know (the truth).
QUOTE: "... the heavens your canopy..." MARK : A NORMAL PERSON WON'T REGARD THE SKY AS A CANOPY.
THE FACT: ATMOSPHERES BLOCK THE RADIATION OF THE SUN.
6. Al Furqan (25)
088. Thou seest the mountains and thinkest them firmly fixed: but they shall pass away as the clouds pass away: (such is) the artistry of Allah, who disposes of all things in perfect order: for he is well acquainted with all that ye do.
QUOTE: "...they shall pass away...". MARK: ONLY 21TH CENTURY PEOPLE WHO KNOWS THIS FACT
7. An Nahl 16
015. And He has set up on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with you; and rivers and roads; that ye may guide yourselves;
QUOTE: "...lest it should shake with you..."
iF THERE MOUNTAINS DISSAPEARE, WE WILL NOT WALK COMFORTABLY, BECAUSE OF THE IMBALANCE CAUSED BY THE MOVEMENT OF SUBSTANCES BELOW THE SURFACE OF THE EARTH.
8. 056. Those who reject our Signs, We shall soon cast into the Fire: as often as their skins are roasted through, We shall change them for fresh skins, that they may taste the penalty: for Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.
QUOTE: "...as often as their skins are roasted through, We shall change them for fresh skins, that they may taste the penalty..."
THE FACT: PEOPLE WHO GOT CERTAIN DEGREE BURN, COULD NOT FEEL THE HEAT OF THE FIRE BURNING IN THEIR SKIN ANYMORE, ONCE THEIR SKIN GOT ROASTED.
9. An Nazi'at(79)
030. And the earth, moreover, hath He extended (to a wide expanse (DHAHAHA));
To some people they translated that word "dhahaha" as from the word "bunyan" which is the shape of ostrich's egg, the verse mentioned about the SHAPE OF OSTRICH'S EGG WHICH IS "GEOSPERIC" (THE SHAPE OF THE EARTH).
WHILE ISAIAH VERSE IN THE BIBLE MIGHT BE UNDERSTAND AS TELLING THAT THE SHAPE OF "EARTH" IS LIKE A "COIN".
THERE ARE STILL OTHERS LIKE THESE, THY COULD SEE THESE IN Zakir Naik vs William Campbell vcd. And Al Qur'an and Science (another vcd of Mr.Abdul Karim Naik)
YOU HAVE TO KNOW THE FLUX PROBABILITY THEORY TO DECLARE THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH OF AL QUR'AN AS ALLAH'S WORDS, THE ONE AND ONLY.
Assalamu manit taba'al huda (May peace, development and safe from guile be upon who follow the guidance).
But alcohol was commonly used by people during Muhammad's time, and the Quran did abolish alcohol overnight. It declares alcohol as haram.
Why doesn't it declare slavery haram?
This is a fair point. Nevertheless, as you say, slavery is not OK. Which is why people like me have a problem with books that seem to allow slavery, even with caveats and exceptions.
Abdul, you're not responding to my posts. You're just copying and pasting from other sites, and the stuff you're copying and pasting is not really related to the discussion we're having.
If you'd actually like to have a discussion about this stuff, that would be wonderful. But I'm not going to spend time responding to you if you're just going to respond with unrelated copying and pasting.
(Just to respond briefly, though—the Quran is hardly the only ancient text to refer to "sky-iron" meteorites.)
If you'd actually like to have a discussion about this stuff, that would be wonderful. But I'm not going to spend time responding to you if you're just going to respond with unrelated copying and pasting.
(Just to respond briefly, though—the Quran is hardly the only ancient text to refer to "sky-iron" meteorites.)
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Well thou could pretend to know about slavery in Islam, while I understimate your judgement about, who free slavery from the world?
12 Ah, what will convey unto thee what the Ascent is!
13 (It is) to free a slave,
14 And to feed in the day of hunger
15 An orphan near of kin,
16 Or some poor wretch in misery,
17 And to be of those who believe and exhort one another to perseverance and export one another to pity.
Because of these verses sound perfectly, there weren't any rebellion to Rasulullah 'alaihi Shalawatullahi wa Salaam regarding the forbiddance of slavery, Allahu Ta'ala already said that it was "the Ascent."
So if antum is the Prophet, then why not you yourself declare yourself as the number 1 man in history, which I know was adress to Muhammad 'alaihi Shalawtullahi wa Salaam, instead of a man named Qingu or whatever.
If you don't mind let's do Mubahalah, so that God will sent His curses to any of you or me who lied.
Assalamu manit taba'al huda (May peace, development and safe from guile be upon who follow the guidance).
muslimapoclyptc
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The obvious answer to that question:
The Qur'an is explicitly portraying neither geocentrism nor heliocentrism. It is unspecific about both, and hence, its statements regarding the subject can easily be interpreted to apply to either.
The fact that no Muslim conceived of heliocentrism, is simply because they had no reason to. There was nothing to support it in any of the religious texts, and the general assumption of everyone based on observation at the time, was that of geocentrism.
But nobody ever interpreted it to apply to heliocentrism ... until the Europeans proved heliocentrism.
But you just said the Quran could "easily be interpreted" to support heliocentrism. Now you're saying there is "nothing to support it" in the Quran?
Your two statements seem contradictory to me.
Also, most ancient myths use the same language the Quran does to describe the movement of the sun and stars. Do you make these same arguments about how to interpret these texts? (Do you think, for example, that the Greek myths about Apollo driving the Sun across the sky are "unspecific" about being geocentrist or heliocentrist and could be interpreted either way?)
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north_malaysian
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God didnt write the Koran... Koran is His words....
Keltoi
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I understand that is the belief of Muslims. My point was that using that belief as a strategy to "prove" that the Qu'ran is "the" Word of God doesn't work outside the realm of Islam. Other faiths do not accept that premise.
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north_malaysian
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I don't understand why you would accept something as the "inspired" Word of God, but not the actual Word of God.
And you restarted the irrelevant!
What is the thread about?
How do you know if the Quran from God?
the objective person is the one who would focus on the internal evidence of the book..whether it is for or against the divine authority....
you try (and others too) to shift from the internal evidence to other external stuff eg; The Quranic laws ,the muslims countries etc........ all such issue are not crucial for determining whether the Quran is from God or not.....
as before arguing whether such law belongs to God or not ,one should test the validity of the source from which comes the law ...... whether it is inerrant,miracelous or not.....
discussing the Laws of a book before discussing its claims to be miracelous ,is just as putting the cart in front of the horse......
Your original argument was ,that the Quran is portraying the universe in a nomad like style...... and among your arguments,that the Quran portrays the a geocentric universe ....and cited verse18:83,which I refuted easily....
now it seems that you feel not qualified enough to argue for the internal evidence(whether for or against) so you shift to external issue....
I provided you with a simple,straight forward Quranic description of the celestial bodies as swimming each in its orbit with its own motion.... something that none the time the Quran was revealed could ever verify without advanced scietific equipments....it is inconceivable that a man living in the seventh century A.D. ... could have imagined that....
"It is He who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon, all (the celestial bodies) swim along, each in its orbit with its own motion. (The Noble Quran, 21:33)"
Now again to your claim ,Quran portrays the a geocentric universe ....
It is you who claim so, so The burden now on your shoulder to provide internal evidence direct eg, verse(s)...
and there is nothing called in the Quran Earth's sky ...
the verse mentions the lower sky which it defines as such space which have anything can be seen by the naked eyes even if millions, or billions of light years away.....
We created man from an extract of clay. Then We made him as a drop in a place of settlement, firmly fixed. Then We made the drop into an Alaqa, then We made the Alaqa into mudgha .Quran, 23:12-14
No doubt The quran meakes a description that is unique ,simple,and conforms with present embryological knowledge.
How would Arabic speaker describe the staging of human embryo?
he would logically describe ,the location, looking and the function
Then We made the drop into an (Alaqa),
what is the meaning of Alaqa according the biggest ,oldest arabic dictionaries?
1-Lesaan AlArab
2-Alqamoos almuheet
3-Aljawhary
4-Mojam Alwaseet
5-makaees Allogha
It is:
لسان العرب
لفظة ( علقة ) مشتقة من ( علق ) وهو الالتصاق والتعلق بشيء ما. والعلقة: دودة في الماء تمتص
الدم، وتعيش في البرك، وتتغذى على دماء الحيوانات التي تلتصق بها، والجمع علق. وعلقت الدابة إذا شربت الماء فعلقت بها
العلقة. والعلق: الدم عامة والشديد الحمرة أو الغليظ أو الجامد
(لسان العرب جـ10 ص 267-268، الجوهرى جـ4 ص 1529،
مقاييس اللغة جـ4ص 125، المعجم الوسيط جـ2ص 623، القاموس المحيط جـ3 ص275، المفردات للأصفهانى ص 343)
in English
the word Alaqa is derived from (Alaq) which means to suspend to,stick to
another meaning a leech which sucks the blood from animals
another meaning blood clot
the meanings are clear and no excuse for non-Muslim to argue that he doesn't speak Arabic ....
as I quoted all what he needs from Arabic dictionaries..
Now let's apply ALL the meanings (I will not be selective) to the stage under discussion
as what I said before ,all what a person needs to do when describing something is to tell how it looks and how it works
1- the appearence of such stage,... embryo in such stage looks like
A- a clot of blood as the blood in the embryo does not circulate until the end of the third week
B- A leech
2-the embryo at this stage obtains nourishment from the blood of the mother, similar to the leech, which feeds on the blood of others
What an amazing description !!!...... all the meaning that one ever needs to describe such stage in one shot (a word)...
I remember that day when I debated the Quranic foreknowledge of embryology with a Christian professor of Arabic who used to give lectures in Cairo university , and we reached at what is Linguistically, is the end of the discussion
I told him, just to insert other words in Arabic or non-Arabic(if you wish) ,clearer and more accurate than the word Alaqa to describe such stage
We created man from an extract of clay. Then We made him as a drop in a place of settlement, firmly fixed. Then We made the drop into an (..............)
till this moment he kept silent !!.... and I guess he would keep silent forever...
Now .... I ask you, who ever described such stage in such amazing specific way other than the Quran?
The other stage:
the mudghah stage. The Arabic word mudghah means “chewed substance.”
and indeed the embryo in such stage looks like a chewed substance
who ever described the embryo in such stage other than the Quran as looks like a chewed substance ?
Where is in the work of Aristotle or Galen the embryo been described as a something has leech looking, that cling,stick to the womb, getting blood as nourishment from the womb?....and such thing becomes looks like a chewed substance as the somites from which the backbone and other trunk structures develop bear a passing resemblance to teeth marks implanted in plastercine...
Just where it been described such unique way outside the Quran?
The Quranic scientific foreknowledge of the embryology is obvious and stands firm , and no excuse for non-muslims who visit the thread that they don't understand Arabic,or that Mulsim are selctive when dealing with the meanings,as we already pointed out , using all the meanings of the word is the reason which makes it impressive ...
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Keltoi
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Well, to make it simple, I believe that Jesus Christ was the Word of God. So I do not accept that the Qu'ran is indeed the "actual" Word of God.
Whatsthepoint
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Keltoi
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I'm afraid I don't get your point.
My point is not about your belief in Jesus being the Word, but the Bible being the "inspired" Word. How do you rationalize that God inspired a book, but not that God's Words are a book (the Qur'an)?