Gems I will be his second wife

[Umm♥Layth]

Sister, be very careful with your advice especially in these cases. Reading your comment, looks like you have experienced one or two ugly things regarding marriages and divorces. Before giving advice especially when somebody is in such situation, ask yourself 10 times if the advice will benefit the person who is asking for advice. As your own bad experiences MIGHT influence your advice and thus maybe always regard the male part as the dishonest one.

I am not saying you have done it right now, i am saying just be careful. As the advice that you have given if it might be bad advice regarding the marriage, you will also be held accountable on the Day of Judgement. Allah(swt) is aware of all the things we do and intending to do.

I appreciate your advice brother, however, I haven't said anything wrong. I was actually going to address your post, but decided not to. When a person is firm in their decision, you shouldn't be the cause of second guessing, especially when it is something as delicate as this. The sister obviously came here in conflict and needed clarification and she got the clarifications she needed.

Do you have experience in marriage and broken homes? Probably not.

Why is it that when somebody brings their (not so pleasant) experience to the table, they are considered bitter or assumed to have grudges ^o). Does Allah not give us all experiences so that we may gain wisdom and share with others? What is the point of any of it if we allow other to make the same (or worse) mistakes without at least advising?

I'm sure there's a hadith about this. Something along the lines of "a person who repeats the same mistakes as his brother is a donkey". Maybe I am mistaken or it is a proverb, but my point is, we all have experiences to share so that others can learn. It is up to each individual to decide for themselves and weight their pros and cons.

I'm not responsible for her decisions, I am responsible for the information I share and only that. Bystanders are also responsible for their lack of action you know

Contrary to popular belief, some of us who go through hardship actually heal, LEARN and come out a better person than they were before, Alhamdullilah Believe me when I tell you, I'm not a bitter hag who thinks ill of all men. I was blessed with so much more in a husband that I had ever though of asking for in my second marriage, Alhamdullilah. I regret nothing in my past (except sins of course) and I'm grateful for my experiences. I won't sugarcoat the truth and the possibilities though. I feel that my community failed me, grown women with more experience failed me in advising me before marriage. I won't do that to another sister OR brother.

If a brother came here with a similar dilemma, I would also help him question his situation so that he may gain clarity.

and Allah knows best!

 

[Simple_Person]

I appreciate your advice brother, however, I haven't said anything wrong. I was actually going to address your post, but decided not to. When a person is firm in their decision, you shouldn't be the cause of second guessing, especially when it is something as delicate as this. The sister obviously came here in conflict and needed clarification and she got the clarifications she needed.

Do you have experience in marriage and broken homes? Probably not.

Why is it that when somebody brings their (not so pleasant) experience to the table, they are considered bitter or assumed to have grudges ^o). Does Allah not give us all experiences so that we may gain wisdom and share with others? What is the point of any of it if we allow other to make the same (or worse) mistakes without at least advising?

I'm sure there's a hadith about this. Something along the lines of "a person who repeats the same mistakes as his brother is a donkey". Maybe I am mistaken or it is a proverb, but my point is, we all have experiences to share so that others can learn. It is up to each individual to decide for themselves and weight their pros and cons.

I'm not responsible for her decisions, I am responsible for the information I share and only that. Bystanders are also responsible for their lack of action you know

Contrary to popular belief, some of us who go through hardship actually heal, LEARN and come out a better person than they were before, Alhamdullilah Believe me when I tell you, I'm not a bitter hag who thinks ill of all men. I was blessed with so much more in a husband that I had ever though of asking for in my second marriage, Alhamdullilah. I regret nothing in my past (except sins of course) and I'm grateful for my experiences. I won't sugarcoat the truth and the possibilities though. I feel that my community failed me, grown women with more experience failed me in advising me before marriage. I won't do that to another sister OR brother.

If a brother came here with a similar dilemma, I would also help him question his situation so that he may gain clarity.

and Allah knows best!

Sister, there is experience and there is assumptions. Experience is beneficial, assumptions are not. For example, if you have experience, you can use certain questions to quickly show the real intention of some people. However, your feelings, are PROHIBITED to be brought in with a advice which are assumptions. As Islamic Judges, cannot judge when they bring their own feelings in it. A advice or judgement is based on rationality and logic.

You said this "When a person is firm in their decision, you shouldn't be the cause of second guessing". What you said is wrong on so many levels. What i have said is sister, you have said X, are you 100% sure of it? Do you have all the arguments why you have chosen X as your choice? She said yes and gave HER arguments. This makes her also more sure of HER decision. While now regarding this comment of yours, it seems you wanted her to get rid of him instead. THAT IS NOT YOUR decision to make. We here on this forum, give advice, we do not choose for people. This is EXACTLY why i typed that comment knowing that sister to not be influenced or maybe manipulated to choose one decision while it may NOT be her decision. Let's say if this sister would have indeed taken this advice because you somehow manipulated her to do so. Afterwards realizing that it wasn't really what she wanted it. She maybe later on hate Muslims because of such "lousy" advice and ruining her life. But if she was aware of all of it, with very firm argumentation why she would leave him, makes it thus the more strong decision and make her a stronger and wise and intelligent woman.

Everything in the current society worldwide has become corrupted, YET we are NOT permitted to assume things.

You mix up many things. Making the same mistake is one thing, but i am MORE than sure that you and i still do not know every detail. Yet you sound as if you do, because you have experienced a bit SIMILAR situation based on the few things this sister has said.

I indeed have no marriage experience that for sure, but i am also not influenced by negative feelings regarding of a marriage experience. It is just how you look at things. Often we get tunnel vision, while simple answers and questions are given by the most inexperienced people. Like a child saying "mom/dad why is X like that?" You and i maybe never even realizing that indeed something we have done for years, but looking at it from another perspective might seem odd. So do not brush me off because i have no marriage experience, rather judge what i say and teach me how contradictory it is what i am saying.

Peace

Btw, i not having any hard feeling and i hope you also don't towards me ..as i am just a Simple_Person with a simple mind and a simple argument.

 

[Umm♥Layth]

Sister, there is experience and there is assumptions. Experience is beneficial, assumptions are not. For example, if you have experience, you can use certain questions to quickly show the real intention of some people.

I did exactly this. I provided my experience and asked questions. Go back and read my posts. At no point did I say "This brother is 100% without a doubt doint XYZ." No. I provided plausible explanations.

However, your feelings, are PROHIBITED to be brought in with a advice which are assumptions. As Islamic Judges, cannot judge when they bring their own feelings in it. A advice or judgement is based on rationality and logic.

Speaking of assumptions, I do believe you are assuming that emotions were used while advising here when in fact they were not. I have no feelings on this matter. It does anger me to see injustice and I do what I can to prevent it, but ultimately, I am not related to our sister Semira or her boyfriend. I'm simply an outsider looking in. In no way, shape, or form did I make this about myself.

She maybe later on hate Muslims because of such "lousy" advice and ruining her life. But if she was aware of all of it, with very firm argumentation why she would leave him, makes it thus the more strong decision and make her a stronger and wise and intelligent woman.

You have no control over what she does or doesn't think and people don't NEED to argue about their decisions. Most people live their lives in limbo, unable to make firm decisions in life because they don't trust Allah or themselves. People around them don't help when they are questioning their decisions. I understand where you are coming from though.

Oh and if you care to make muslims look their best, don't argue about petty things lol. You are entitled to give your advice and I'm entitled to give my advice also. We don't see life through the same lens and it is GOOD that a person get different perspectives.

Everything in the current society worldwide has become corrupted, YET we are NOT permitted to assume things.

Sorry, this doesn't make sense. This is a moot point anyway because at no point was I assuming anything. This has been a constant accusation on this thread and it seems to me that those making these accusations have some sort of emotion invested in this subject.

i am MORE than sure that you and i still do not know every detail. Yet you sound as if you do, because you have experienced a bit SIMILAR situation based on the few things this sister has said.

Again, I never made her situation about me. We only advised her based on the information she provided and as she provided more, our advice changed.

I indeed have no marriage experience that for sure, but i am also not influenced by negative feelings regarding of a marriage experience. It is just how you look at things. Often we get tunnel vision, while simple answers and questions are given by the most inexperienced people.

I understand what you are saying, but you have to have some level of respect for your elders and people with more and/or different experience than your own. I certainly do not have tunnel vision. I'm actually a councelor in real life, and it is part of my profession to provide different angles and points of view

So do not brush me off because i have no marriage experience, rather judge what i say and teach me how contradictory it is what i am saying.

Nobody is brushing you off. I asked that question for two purposes. 1) To be sure I'm not making false assumptions. 2) So you can reflect on what you are advising and your experience on the matter. This IS relevant, believe it or not.

This is similar to giving parental advise when a person has no children and then when it is their turn to be parents, they end up eating their words and choking on them lol. Most of us have been there

Let's stay humble. No hard feelings.

Asalaam Aleikum.

 

[Simple_Person]

I did exactly this. I provided my experience and asked questions. Go back and read my posts. At no point did I say "This brother is 100% without a doubt doint XYZ." No. I provided plausible explanations.



Speaking of assumptions, I do believe you are assuming that emotions were used while advising here when in fact they were not. I have no feelings on this matter. It does anger me to see injustice and I do what I can to prevent it, but ultimately, I am not related to our sister Semira or her boyfriend. I'm simply an outsider looking in. In no way, shape, or form did I make this about myself.



You have no control over what she does or doesn't think and people don't NEED to argue about their decisions. Most people live their lives in limbo, unable to make firm decisions in life because they don't trust Allah or themselves. People around them don't help when they are questioning their decisions. I understand where you are coming from though.

Oh and if you care to make muslims look their best, don't argue about petty things lol. You are entitled to give your advice and I'm entitled to give my advice also. We don't see life through the same lens and it is GOOD that a person get different perspectives.


Sorry, this doesn't make sense. This is a moot point anyway because at no point was I assuming anything. This has been a constant accusation on this thread and it seems to me that those making these accusations have some sort of emotion invested in this subject.



Again, I never made her situation about me. We only advised her based on the information she provided and as she provided more, our advice changed.



I understand what you are saying, but you have to have some level of respect for your elders and people with more and/or different experience than your own. I certainly do not have tunnel vision. I'm actually a councelor in real life, and it is part of my profession to provide different angles and points of view



Nobody is brushing you off. I asked that question for two purposes. 1) To be sure I'm not making false assumptions. 2) So you can reflect on what you are advising and your experience on the matter. This IS relevant, believe it or not.

This is similar to giving parental advise when a person has no children and then when it is their turn to be parents, they end up eating their words and choking on them lol. Most of us have been there

Let's stay humble. No hard feelings.

Asalaam Aleikum.

You did not get my point. But i leave this discussion like this.

wa alaikum salam wa rahmatullah

 

[Simple_Person]

.

Sister, our conversation has stayed on my mind since yesterday and i have the feeling that i somehow have done injustice to you or hurt your feelings in someway.

I apologize and please forgive me as it wasn't intended like that. I sometimes say things that are seen as blunt because i often go straight to point and forget the emotional part of it as this still exist.

Again, please forgive me as i did not intended as something negative.

 

[Finding MEMO]

Sister, our conversation has stayed on my mind since yesterday and i have the feeling that i somehow have done injustice to you or hurt your feelings in someway.

I apologize and please forgive me as it wasn't intended like that. I sometimes say things that are seen as blunt because i often go straight to point and forget the emotional part of it as this still exist.

Again, please forgive me as i did not intended as something negative.

سبحان الله

Well said brother!
Islam teaches us the simplicity of being humble. I'm a huge fan of apologising from the fear of having caused anyone any pain because of anything I said or did especially unintentionally.

I only truly care what Allah swt thinks of me therefore showing my humility is a sign of true worship, submission & strength. Not weakness.

I do constantly fear writing anything via social media because if people misconstrue your message face to face - on a forum it's even easier!

We have to totally own our attitude not just by words but by our daily actions.

 

[Umm♥Layth]

Sister, our conversation has stayed on my mind since yesterday and i have the feeling that i somehow have done injustice to you or hurt your feelings in someway.

I apologize and please forgive me as it wasn't intended like that. I sometimes say things that are seen as blunt because i often go straight to point and forget the emotional part of it as this still exist.

Again, please forgive me as i did not intended as something negative.

I also ask your that you forgive me if I offended you in any way. Don't worry, I'm fine! Alhamdullilah. Text is difficult as it shows no emotion or body language. I know you mean well

 

[Simple_Person]

I also ask your that you forgive me if I offended you in any way. Don't worry, I'm fine! Alhamdullilah. Text is difficult as it shows no emotion or body language. I know you mean well

i hope truly that you can do what you were doing before. As your comments often contain valuable information and wisdom. And no, you have not offended me and if you feel like you have, know that i already have forgiven you .

Jazakallahu khairan, for your time and effort.

As-salamu alaikum.

 

[islamocurious]

He is asking you to be his mistress and nothing more.

 

[MuslimInshallah]

Assalaamu alaikum everyone,


(smile) This is an important discussion, and I congratulate everyone who has given their input on this topic. I have therefore made this a "gems thread". I also will be "repping" people, but as I do not want to re-read the whole thread and try to figure out which is the best post by each person (and honestly, there are a lot of really good posts), I'll just go systematically from the beginning (in case you were wondering why I chose a particular post).


May God, the Generous, Reward you all for your sincere efforts to tackle this question.

 

[Simple_Person]

Assalaamu alaikum everyone,


(smile) This is an important discussion, and I congratulate everyone who has given their input on this topic. I have therefore made this a "gems thread". I also will be "repping" people, but as I do not want to re-read the whole thread and try to figure out which is the best post by each person (and honestly, there are a lot of really good posts), I'll just go systematically from the beginning (in case you were wondering why I chose a particular post).


May God, the Generous, Reward you all for your sincere efforts to tackle this question.

Sister, i am kind of green behind the ears about many things done on the forum..like "gems" and this whole "repping" system. However your post to me is very confusing. Are you saying that you will decide what is the best post that answers this topic?

Btw, is there any way that i can hide my reputation, Rep power AND Likes (received).

 

[Umm♥Layth]

She said "best post by each person" meaning, which post she will rep us from. For example, I if I made 20 posts in this thread, she will not rep me on all 20, rather on my best couple of posts. Make sense?

Also, there is a wisdom behind the rep power. It encourages posted to make quality posts and not focus on post count. Quality posts are very useful and important for good discussions.

I hope this helps!

 

[Finding MEMO]

Sister, i am kind of green behind the ears about many things done on the forum..like "gems" and this whole "repping" system. However your post to me is very confusing. Are you saying that you will decide what is the best post that answers this topic?

Btw, is there any way that i can hide my reputation, Rep power AND Likes (received).

I don't know what either terms mean either
Please explain sister

Jazak'Allahu Khairan Khateeran

 

[MuslimInshallah]

Assalaamu alaikum Simple Person,


"gems" means that the thread is highlighted as being particularly beneficial.

(smile) No, I did not choose any particular post as the best... I just gave rep at the first post I saw for each member. Because honestly, most of the posts were very sincere and useful.

Reputation is a way for members to know something about one another. If someone has a high rep, this generally indicates that this person has a) been around for a while and b) that this person's posts have been deemed a positive contribution by at least some of the other members.

Rep power is the amount of reputation that you can give to another member. Again, the more you have been around, and the more you have contributed, the more you can offer recognition to another member. This is not only a nice way to telling another member that you recognize his or her efforts, but it helps others (often newer people) to know how the poster is viewed by the other members, based on his or her contributions.

(smile) I hope this helps a bit. But if you have any more questions, please submit them to the Helpdesk. It is better to keep this thread on-topic.


May Allah, the Glorious, Reward those who wish to be modest.

 

[Simple_Person]

She said "best post by each person" meaning, which post she will rep us from. For example, I if I made 20 posts in this thread, she will not rep me on all 20, rather on my best couple of posts. Make sense?

Also, there is a wisdom behind the rep power. It encourages posted to make quality posts and not focus on post count. Quality posts are very useful and important for good discussions.

I hope this helps!

Then it would be useful to also be able to hide my amount of posts . I am just a Simple_Person who wants to stay simple. As you for example stated "to make quality posts" which from my perspective more looks like a trap for sheytan to use. As we often will try to post such great quality posts so people can say "ma'sha'Allah what a wise/smart person, that he/she gained so many reputation points or this rep power". I know i am a strange Simple_Person, but what counts for me is that the individual i advice can by him/herself judge the comment i made beneficial or not. I do not want whole community to see what achievement i have made so far.

I am by the way not saying for everybody to hide those things, but being able to disable it if you want to. As i myself see FOR MYSELF more harm than benefit in it.

 

[Umm♥Layth]

Then it would be useful to also be able to hide my amount of posts . I am just a Simple_Person who wants to stay simple. As you for example stated "to make quality posts" which from my perspective more looks like a trap for sheytan to use. As we often will try to post such great quality posts so people can say "ma'sha'Allah what a wise/smart person, that he/she gained so many reputation points or this rep power". I know i am a strange Simple_Person, but what counts for me is that the individual i advice can by him/herself judge the comment i made beneficial or not. I do not want whole community to see what achievement i have made so far.

I am by the way not saying for everybody to hide those things, but being able to disable it if you want to. As i myself see FOR MYSELF more harm than benefit in it.

I understand your perspective and I don't think people make good posts for the sake of reputation. Shaytaan can use any door he wants if the person leaves it open. The amount of influence shaytaan has on each individual is in their own hands.

I was simply explaining it from a forum moderation point of view. As a member, I would much rather see posts that are beneficial than to see empty posts with emojis and 2-3 words. That's just my opinion as somebody who has frequented different forums for 12 years.

Hope this was helpful

 

[SemiraE]

UPDATE:

So after I talked with an imam and with my... man, and listening to advices from here I have decided to back down from the whole situation.

The man in question refused to accept my decision, not that he didn't agree but he didn't want to let me go. (as in he doesn't want to lose me)

So he told his family and wife about his intentions and about me.
His family accepted somehow, except his mother who thinks me being christian and marrying him is haram and i'm a sinner and *dirty*. Which I know it's not!(haram)
His wife... is threatening to kill herself or leaving and taking the children away and doesn't really speak with him anymore even though they live in the same household.

I am still sustaining my decision and waiting to see what happens though... having small small second thoughts.
I'm posting this in the idea that maybe it will generate more answers and some day will be helpful for someone in my situation.

 

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you SemiraE;

His wife... is threatening to kill herself or leaving and taking the children away and doesn't really speak with him anymore even though they live in the same household.

You are the only one able to make the decision, but by the sound of it, you will not be able to have a full and equal relationship with the first wife, the children and mother in law. It seems his first wife will leave, and then you will become a first wife and not a second wife. That is, until he finds another second wife.

I am still sustaining my decision and waiting to see what happens though... having small small second thoughts.

You seem a caring person, and as such, I think your conscience will trouble you in years to come if you go ahead, especially if the first wife suffers.

In the spirit of praying to do the will of God.

Blessings
Eric

 

[Umm♥Layth]

If you are serious about cutting him off, you need to change all of your contact details and place a restraining order so he doesn't come by your place. He will be permanently gone before you know it. He needs to take care of his wife and children, it isn't worth breaking up his home over feelings he allowed himself to develop in a haraam manner.

I personally haven't experienced it, but have someone dear to me who has been in similar shoes. It WILL be on your conscious for the rest of your life and if him and his current wife manage to stay together, it is very likely that your life will not be so fantastic. Even if they split, you will never ever "get rid" of her because of the children, I'm a stepmom, I know Eventually, with time, the back and forth will exhaust him.

You have to understand that if he wanted a second wife, he would have looked for one properly. He would have given his current wife plenty of time to get used to the idea BEFORE searching for a wife. OR, he would have just searched for a second wife the correct way, the same way most practicing Muslims find a wife, which is through family, friends or the local mosque, not by starting a love relationship and then deciding to marry.

What he did here is unfair to his current wife and to you which clearly tells you how it will be in the future. He is following his desires, not his religion. He doesn't appear to be thinking straight and he isn't seeking proper advice either from what it looks like. In cases like these, serious intervention is necessary. One who has invested emotion and has desires cannot make logical decisions about the relationship without help. Then there's the ego part of things...which is another subject.

Like I said, if you are serious about cutting him off then do it for real. Don't leave him any room to reach in. Don't respond to texts, e-mails and don't make yourself available. Close all the doors and he will be gone before you know it. Save yourself heartache, drama and stress.

You deserve a fair chance at a good, stable, drama free relationship.

 

[Finding MEMO]

Subhan'Allah great advice from sister Umm Layth.

Best advice comes from an empathic perspective.

May Allah swt guide you in the right way hun.

When your out of this situation you will be relieved. Right now it's too overwhelming to think straight.