Gems I will be his second wife

[Umm♥Layth]

No, you do not. That is something he and his first wife needs to discuss or may have discussed. Seems like she is getting more of her rights then the civil law of the land would give her. Why have you been accusatory on this brother from the get go? Is it the misandry of feminism or grudges of personal experience?

I don't have grudges actually. My ex and I are on speaking terms and get along better than we did when we were married lol. No hard feeling, however, I will not ignore what happened and is happening to other women.

His wife is entitled to her Islamic rights as well as any rights given in the land their marriage has taken place. YES his second wife to be does have a right to ask any questions she likes and I would encourage her to ask to gain clarity on his motives and have a better picture of what she is looking at here. When two divorcees marry, or when somebody marries a divorcee we ask questions about the relationship, hardships, problems, what they feel caused the marriage to fail, what they learned and so forth. So why shouldn't somebody who is marrying a married person ask about the relationship, decisions made, why's and how's? The sister is entitled to understand why he feels the need to marry again and so on. It is her life. She is young and it would be her first marriage.

It would be stupid to marry someone without a background check done personally and by others. You forget that (as far as we know) this sister has been seeing him in secret, neither his family or her family is involved. You talk about women being honored and not leaving women unsheltered with illegitimate children, yet this is exactly how it begins.

My problem here has nothing to do with polygamy, this thread isn't about reproaching it, so you don't need to defend it . I'd give her the same exact advice if this man was single, because it happens either way.

It seems as though you are taking this subject rather personal brother.

 

[sister herb]

With regard to the Muslim man who has a second wife, I believe—and Almighty Allah knows best—that he has to follow the channels of law in order to legalize his second marriage in the country he lives in. There are some Muslim brothers who did so through the legitimate channels. They submitted documents to the European countries they reside in to the effect that they have second wives according to the Islamic Law and that the first wives agree to that; they also asserted that they would not give a privilege to one of the wives at the expense of the other. I know a Jordanian Muslim who managed to get residence for his two wives in a European country.

I have read too about such cases but they aren´t now same - those men had multiple wives before they moved to Europe. This one we are discussing is new marriage in Europe. I see it different - maybe others don´t see it same like I. Also, I don´t talk about how to legalize multiple marriages in Europe but what is Islamic perspective for the situation when someone doesn´t respect land laws in the situation what isn´t obligatory in Islam (like the second marriage), not what is land law´s perspective to it.

Thanks about link; it´s actually just same link which I posted to this discussion before (post number 2).

https://www.islamicboard.com/general/134344486-wife.html

 

[Scimitar]

Don't marry someone who is cheating on his wife with you, if he did it to her - he can do it to you too.

Bleh

 

[aaj]

I have read too about such cases but they aren´t now same - those men had multiple wives before they moved to Europe. This one we are discussing is new marriage in Europe. I see it different - maybe others don´t see it same like I. Also, I don´t talk about how to legalize multiple marriages in Europe but what is Islamic perspective for the situation when someone doesn´t respect land laws in the situation what isn´t obligatory in Islam (like the second marriage), not what is land law´s perspective to it.

Thanks about link; it´s actually just same link which I posted to this discussion before (post number 2).

https://www.islamicboard.com/general/134344486-wife.html

It would be interesting to read and know what the scholars think on the subject. Although, I do presume that there may be difference of opinion among them regarding how much "obeying the law of the land" applies in such a situation.

Still the 2nd link i provided does give a good indication of it though:

In case they are obliged by law to uphold something contrary to Islamic teachings, they have to adhere to the minimum that the law requires of them.

His wife is entitled to her Islamic rights as well as any rights given in the land their marriage has taken place. YES his second wife to be does have a right to ask any questions she likes and I would encourage her to ask to gain clarity on his motives and have a better picture of what she is looking at here. When two divorcees marry, or when somebody marries a divorcee we ask questions about the relationship, hardships, problems, what they feel caused the marriage to fail, what they learned and so forth. So why shouldn't somebody who is marrying a married person ask about the relationship, decisions made, why's and how's? The sister is entitled to understand why he feels the need to marry again and so on. It is her life. She is young and it would be her first marriage.

It seems as though you are taking this subject rather personal brother.

Yes, she has every right to ask questions to get the whole picture before taking such a big step. And I do not think you are against polygamy nor am I taking this personal. I'm all for giving her advice and questions she can ask. What I caution against is the backbiting of the brother based on assumptions. Which is what has been going on in here.

 

[Scimitar]

Just to clarify - I have been raised both to be extremely independent and have my own money.

how much money?

Scimi

 

[Finding MEMO]

how much money?

Scimi

Very funny ha ha ha

 

[SemiraE]

Okay...So I think we are going to ''break-up''... I am not ready for this...and if I want it I want all of him and what comes with it. Except his wife!

I am not sure..but I can't be a secret for my whole life... or get married even if it's just in Islam to have a halal relationship only to realise later that I am just the secret ''affair'' and get my heartbroken..because I know I could fall in love with him... and honestly...I am 99% sure he will never leave his wife and even if he does...I would be heartbroken for her, because I know the kids will be more than perfect wherever they are cause they are like his precious gems.


So I just wanted to thank all of you so much for your replies, they really helped me a lot. Especially the girls, since they could somehow relate and really get involved in giving me honest and helpful opinions.

THANK YOU!

 

[Simple_Person]

Okay...So I think we are going to ''break-up''... I am not ready for this...and if I want it I want all of him and what comes with it. Except his wife!

I am not sure..but I can't be a secret for my whole life... or get married even if it's just in Islam to have a halal relationship only to realise later that I am just the secret ''affair'' and get my heartbroken..because I know I could fall in love with him... and honestly...I am 99% sure he will never leave his wife and even if he does...I would be heartbroken for her, because I know the kids will be more than perfect wherever they are cause they are like his precious gems.


So I just wanted to thank all of you so much for your replies, they really helped me a lot. Especially the girls, since they could somehow relate and really get involved in giving me honest and helpful opinions.

THANK YOU!

Sister, think deeply about your choice. Why it is your choice and not somebody else's choice. What i mean by this, some times people do something, but the reality is that it was not their choice, but it was somehow manipulated to them to "forcefully"choose from because somebody made you scared of the other choice. With the outcome being that you hate those people who have made you choose that choice as you yourself would have taken that other choice. I am not saying you should stay with that guy or even leave that guy. I am just saying, is it REALLY your choice? Please do not reply to this comment of mine, but answer that to yourself. If you say yes 100% sure it is my choice, then that is exactly what i wanted you to do. I wish you good luck and maybe till the next time on this forum in another topic .

 

[SemiraE]

Sister, think deeply about your choice. Why it is your choice and not somebody else's choice. What i mean by this, some times people do something, but the reality is that it was not their choice, but it was somehow manipulated to them to "forcefully"choose from because somebody made you scared of the other choice. With the outcome being that you hate those people who have made you choose that choice as you yourself would have taken that other choice. I am not saying you should stay with that guy or even leave that guy. I am just saying, is it REALLY your choice? Please do not reply to this comment of mine, but answer that to yourself. If you say yes 100% sure it is my choice, then that is exactly what i wanted you to do. I wish you good luck and maybe till the next time on this forum in another topic .

It is my choice. If it is influenced it is only by odds. It's the right choice to make at least in my opinion. For everyone implicated not just me.

 

[Simple_Person]

It is my choice. If it is influenced it is only by odds. It's the right choice to make at least in my opinion. For everyone implicated not just me.

Nobody is saying i think is the right or the wrong choice. As with choices often feelings are part of the choice which is subjective. Without feelings being included in the choice is also not a good thing to do. So if you say it is the right choice to YOUR opinion, everybody is with you. It is YOUR life and YOUR choices. So again, what i only find important is that YOU stand by YOUR choice 100% and not choose because some people Muslim or Christian said it is a good choice or a bad choice. You listen to what they have to say, if bad advice according to you, you throw it away if it is good advice according to you, you include it in YOUR decision.

If later on it happened to be a good choice (Thank God), if it happened to be a bad choice, you only blame yourself nobody else.

So again, i wish you good luck with it.

 

[Umm♥Layth]

Sister Semira, you are correct in assuming he would never leave his wife. In Islam, you have to have very valid reasons for wanting to divorce and simply finding a new partner is not sufficient. Even if he is unhappy with her, there are many things she has done and is doing right and they can always work on marital issues to improve their relationship. There's always a solution if one wants it.

Children will be very deeply affected if their parents split up. One of my kids is from a divorce, my step child is also, so are my husband and I as well as our siblings and my father. IT HURTS and no, just because they are his precious gems doesn't mean they will be okay wherever they are as much as we like to believe children are resilient. There's serious repercussions to breaking up a home, way beyond what we can see today/at the moment.

I'm glad you have come to a decision and I hope you learned new things throughout our discussion, insha'Allah. It is most definitely a test for anyone involved, including those of us who have given you words of advice.

If you need help with this process please let us know. You can always reach out privately as well.

 

[Simple_Person]

Sister Semira, you are correct in assuming he would never leave his wife. In Islam, you have to have very valid reasons for wanting to divorce and simply finding a new partner is not sufficient. Even if he is unhappy with her, there are many things she has done and is doing right and they can always work on marital issues to improve their relationship. There's always a solution if one wants it.

Children will be very deeply affected if their parents split up. One of my kids is from a divorce, my step child is also, so are my husband and I as well as our siblings and my father. IT HURTS and no, just because they are his precious gems doesn't mean they will be okay wherever they are as much as we like to believe children are resilient. There's serious repercussions to breaking up a home, way beyond what we can see today/at the moment.

I'm glad you have come to a decision and I hope you learned new things throughout our discussion, insha'Allah. It is most definitely a test for anyone involved, including those of us who have given you words of advice.

If you need help with this process please let us know. You can always reach out privately as well.

Sister, be very careful with your advice especially in these cases. Reading your comment, looks like you have experienced one or two ugly things regarding marriages and divorces. Before giving advice especially when somebody is in such situation, ask yourself 10 times if the advice will benefit the person who is asking for advice. As your own bad experiences MIGHT influence your advice and thus maybe always regard the male part as the dishonest one.

I am not saying you have done it right now, i am saying just be careful. As the advice that you have given if it might be bad advice regarding the marriage, you will also be held accountable on the Day of Judgement. Allah(swt) is aware of all the things we do and intending to do.

 

[sister herb]

This has been interesting discussion - for me specially. When I was younger (at the same age like the OP), I was in the just similar situation (married Muslim man who asked me to become his the second wife, no need to bother his the first one telling, kids etc. etc.). After a serious thinking I made my decision what to do and it was (like it seems right now) same like what this sister is doing. So I said thanks but no thanks, I am sure here will be some other man meant just for me. And there was (but that´s the other story).

So I can say that I have understood this situation better than others could imagine.

 

[Simple_Person]

This has been interesting discussion - for me specially. When I was younger (at the same age like the OP), I was in the just similar situation (married Muslim man who asked me to become his the second wife, no need to bother his the first one telling, kids etc. etc.). After a serious thinking I made my decision what to do and it was (like it seems right now) same like what this sister is doing. So I said thanks but no thanks, I am sure here will be some other man meant just for me. And there was (but that´s the other story).

So I can say that I have understood this situation better than others could imagine.

Sister, out of curiosity and as you are a sister and might know this better than me. Have you witnessed or experienced that a sister asked a brother to marry him? As this is normal within Islamic principles.

 

[Finding MEMO]

Sister, out of curiosity and as you are a sister and might know this better than me. Have you witnessed or experienced that a sister asked a brother to marry him? As this is normal within Islamic principles.

lol

Are you asking if a woman can propose to a man? As in has Allah swt given women that right too? AstaghfurAllah

YES

 

[sister herb]

Sister, out of curiosity and as you are a sister and might know this better than me. Have you witnessed or experienced that a sister asked a brother to marry him? As this is normal within Islamic principles.

Yes, few times. I know it´s ok in Islam but not sure how big influence is with some cultural background as how common it is. Surely it´s more familiar to sisters with European background (I think).

 

[Simple_Person]

Yes, few times. I know it´s ok in Islam but not sure how big influence is with some cultural background as how common it is. Surely it´s more familiar to sisters with European background (I think).

Alhamdulillah, this calms my heart knowing that such practices still exist, as it is something normal but cultures have made it something weird and inappropriate, while i would feel honored to have a sister come to ask my hairy hand :Emoji7:.

 

[Simple_Person]

lol

Are you asking if a woman can propose to a man? As in has Allah swt given women that right too? Astaghfuralla

Hell YES

No i am not asking if a woman can propose, i already know it is normal practice within Islamic principles. You sisters have become lazy. Ask others sisters to come ask our hands. We will give you the whole body and mind as a extra with the hands. ;D

 

[Finding MEMO]

Alhamdulillah, this calms my heart knowing that such practices still exist, as it is something normal but cultures have made it something weird and inappropriate, while i would feel honored to have a sister come to ask my hairy hand :Emoji7:.

إن شاء الله
Allah swt will bless everyone with pious spouses. Always have faith Allah swt is saving you from bad and saving you for someone worthy!

 

[Simple_Person]

إن شاء الله
Allah swt will bless everyone with pious spouses.

True, but not trying to be pious yourself, why would you then deserve a pious spouse right? Many brothers saying they want a practicing sister, who has still not committed the third largest sin, while they themselves have done most what Allah(swt) has made it haram and are still not praying or not even trying to walk the path that Allah(swt) is pleased with. Talk, the talk, but not walk the walk. Those brothers on the contrary will ruin such a sisters life.