Gems I will be his second wife

[Umm♥Layth]

I'm glad I could help with some clarity. It is very common for a foreign Muslim man to take on a European or american woman as a second wife because women in these countries are raised to be self sufficient, so she automatically assumes she will provide her share for her expenses and they go along with it without ever offering to fulfill their duties. In my first marriage, I handed over my full check and when I took time off after giving birth, he started to harass me about getting a job. :hmm: That is a common story.

My husband now doesn't ask me for a penny even though I make my own income. He purposely and dutifully abides by our religion, Alhamdullilah. He was born and raised in North America, so this isn't about cultural norms, it is about obeying what God has asked of us You want the man you commit to, to be honorable and trustworthy, not trying to cut corners and being shady, you know?

 

[Simple_Person]

I'm glad I could help with some clarity. It is very common for a foreign Muslim man to take on a European or american woman as a second wife because women in these countries are raised to be self sufficient, so she automatically assumes she will provide her share for her expenses and they go along with it without ever offering to fulfill their duties. In my first marriage, I handed over my full check and when I took time off after giving birth, he started to harass me about getting a job. :hmm: That is a common story.

My husband now doesn't ask me for a penny even though I make my own income. He purposely and dutifully abides by our religion, Alhamdullilah. He was born and raised in North America, so this isn't about cultural norms, it is about obeying what God has asked of us You want the man you commit to, to be honorable and trustworthy, not trying to cut corners and being shady, you know?

I think many women (Muslim reverts), as you in your first marriage, didn't really dig in about whole marriage boundaries. Many feel lonely and thus just want to marry ..i ASSUME. Then the outcome comes with such shady guys taking the advantage from you, while not being permitted to do such a thing.

Although for me, born in the Middle East and now lived majority of my life in a western country, is the whole dilemma of sisters mostly obsessed with their culture. However i don't want to marry a western sister either, but also not one of my own culture as many of them ..their heart is mostly filled with cultural habits. Many believe that it is THEIR JOB to be a "slave" in a household and not talk or have a opinion. I want a wife that sets me on my place if i do something wrong so i can learn from it. A western sister on the other hand is also too much the other direction. So BIG dilemma.

For now just staying single as i can work more on myself and get rid of bad habits. If in this life is destined for me to get married alhamdulillah, if it is not destined also alhamdulillah. As both situations bring different blessings.

 

[mkusak]

You will meet Islam inshaallah

 

[aaj]

Going straight to your point, let me tell you, in islam, if a man has more than one wife, he is to treat each one of them EQUALLY. And equally doesn't just mean just giving equal time, equal money , etc etc .. Equally also means that in your heart, you must have equal amount of love for both wives. Lets just be true to ourselves and true to Allah swt. Is it possible?

The quran tells us that it is not possible to love two people equally. But it still allows to marry more than one person. It's not about equality, but rather justice. Islam commands that the husband treats them justicely. Which means giving them their rights to the best of his ability.

Also , it is forbidden in islam to marry a non muslim.

Marriage to the people of the book (women) is allowed for Muslim men. All other non-Muslim women are forbidden.

And since four marriages are allowed, and he wants to marry you without telling his first wife,

One does not have to inform the first wife regarding this, although it maybe in his best interest to do so if he wants to keep peace in his life. However, it may depend on the situation.

Hello, I am sorry if this is not the place to ask this but here I go.

I am a 22 years old Christian living in Europe. I met a Muslim man. We bonded very fast without realizing it...but we didn't have any sex other than some occasional kissing....

heis married since 10 years and has 2 kids, now he wants me to marry him in Islam. What will that mean for me? But for him? Considering I will be his 2nd wife...

I mention that I won't change my religion and his wife will have no knowledge about this marriage.

about the religion... it's not that I don't want to but it's takes time to learn about a whole different world and We don't want to commit haram and have relations before being married

What am I risking if I accept?

and I know I seem like a horrible person....but please just restrain yourself to advices

thank you!

You did the right thing to come here to ask for advice, especially since this is a complex situation and you are new to his culture and religion and to see where he is coming from.

Regarding your situation. I see lot of bashing on the guy for wanting to marry you and his intentions being questioned. We truly do not know what is in his heart and we cannot assume his intentions unless he has given any indication of them through any means. So while Umm Layth's advice seems reasonable, it is still accusing the guy of less than honorable motives. He would be like that or he could not be like that. We do not know.

What we do know is this. He is a married man and he should have thought of how he approached other women and how he communicated with them so he wouldn't be in this predicament. And then getting close to you and making out and all that is a form of cheating on his wife. While at the same time, rather then taking advantage of you and fornicating with you he also chose to ask for your hand in marriage. So we have to look at what he did and didn't do judge based on that.

You do not have to change your religion as that would not be required and your marriage would be valid as women of the Book (Jew/Christian). But know that kids are born Muslims and have to be raised as Muslims per Islam. You also have the option to give up some of your rights, if you choose to do so (spending on you, etc). Whether you ask for full rights or partials is your call as they are your rights.

Regarding the rights and telling his first wife and all that. The advice given by scholars at islamqa.com is this:

" 1. That you want your full right to a share of his time and you are afraid that he will not be fair, and that he may be unfair towards you with regard to this right. This possibility is very likely if he does not tell his first wife about the marriage, because it will be difficult for him to give you the rights that are your due and to explain why he is away from his home every day or night. This is what usually causes problems and conflict, and may lead to falling short with regard to your rights.

2. That you do not want your rights in full and you are content with him coming to you every now and then whenever it is easy for him. In that case not telling his first wife may be better, and in most cases it will be possible for him to organise his life properly with both of you, and he can use double entendres if he is asked about where he is going or why he is late.

You have to be clear about your attitude and your wishes. If you want to have your rights in full, then we do not advise you to get married until he tells his wife and you think it most likely that he is able to deal with problems and achieve fairness (in his treatment of both of you).

If you give up your right to a share of his time, then you can marry him without him telling his wife. "
https://islamqa.info/en/175097


With that said. If he plans to bring his wife and kids to Europe as well, then it may be difficult for him to hide his 2nd marriage from her much less give you your rights unless he can get away from time to time. If he plans to keep them there and visit them from time to time then it maybe possible to do this. Although, he has to be honorable and provide for them and not forget about them now that he has a woman aboard. This maybe more difficult on the family back home then on you. As you mentioned, it's best to talk to the imam you have in mind. It's best to talk to someone in person who has more experience in advising on these matters as a community and religious leader.

 

[Finding MEMO]

One does not have to inform the first wife regarding this, although it maybe in his best interest to do so if he wants to keep peace in his life. However, it may depend on the situation.

.

Really? Is that a view of a Male whose not going to get cheated on in secret?

The Woman - first wife has every right to be informed if the person who she gives importance to after Allah swt is less than honest?

Seriously think about it.
This takes away from human ethical behaviour.

Every woman has the CHOICE to stay or leave.

 

[aaj]

Really? Is that a view of a Male whose not going to get cheated on in secret?

The Woman - first wife has every right to be informed if the person who she gives importance to after Allah swt is less than honest?

Seriously think about it.
This takes away from human ethical behaviour.

Every woman has the CHOICE to stay or leave.

It is your view that first wife has to be informed and has that right and otherwise it is unethical.

It's the view of the shaykh at islamqa that he does not need to inform the first wife if it is not necessary.

Regardless of which view one holds, the man is accountable for what he does and will have to answer for it when time comes.

It is sunnah to inform the community of the marriage through walima. But a marriage is valid if all it's conditions are being met by shariah.

Let's be honest here, husband is not the 2nd most important person for a wife after Allah. Not for many many wives. With desi, it's usually still her family that she funnels his money to.

 

[Finding MEMO]

while Umm Layth's advice seems reasonable, it is still accusing the guy of less than honorable motives. He would be like that or he could not be like that. We do not know.
.

Sister Umm Layth shared her own life's experiences. No disrespect brother but your views are a bit sexist.

Your not a woman, try standing in another woman's shoes. Imagine if this was your sister whose husband was about to remarry?

 

[Finding MEMO]

It is your view that first wife has to be informed and has that right and otherwise it is unethical.

It's the view of the shaykh at islamqa that he does not need to inform the first wife if it is not necessary.

.

This is not my view lol it's the view of the majority of the scholars across the world.

Your saying yourself the following:
'Regardless of which view one holds, the man is accountable for what he does and will have to answer for it when time comes.

It is sunnah to inform the community of the marriage through walima. But a marriage is valid if all it's conditions are being met by shariah.

Let's be honest here, husband is not the 2nd most important person for a wife after Allah. Not for many many wives. With desi, it's usually still her family that she funnels his money to'.

Not sure what your insinuating?
Dude this is MANS nature that's why Allah swt has clearly defined the rulings so NO woman is treated unjustly.

Answer me this:

If no man can love two women equally and it's even written in the Quran.
Then why does Man try to abuse Islam and find loopholes?

The advice that all the sisters on this forum were giving was based on women's rights within Islam.

Don't take a Man's opinion they are only human. Islam is perfect - people are not.

 

[aaj]

Sister Umm Layth shared her own life's experiences. No disrespect brother but your views are a bit sexist.

Your not a woman, try standing in another woman's shoes. Imagine if this was your sister whose husband was about to remarry?

I'm not putting her personal experience down in anyway. But there is no basis to assume that this guy is after this girl because she will fend for herself. That is an assumption against the guy. It may be true, it may not be true.

I do understand this is a sensitive issue for women and no woman would want her husband to marry someone else behind her back, and he should have the courtesy to inform her of his decision and in the best manner possible so as to minimize the hurt caused to her.

And it's not my views that i'm sharing, rather what the scholars on islamqa think on the matter. According them, if given situation/context doesn't deem necessary informing the first wife then it's acceptable to do this. And i'm stating this because some here are saying it's her "right" to know this. If it was her islamic right then the scholars would have said otherwise.

 

[Finding MEMO]

I'm not putting her personal experience down in anyway. But there is no basis to assume that this guy is after this girl because she will fend for herself. That is an assumption against the guy. It may be true, it may not be true.

I do understand this is a sensitive issue for women and no woman would want her husband to marry someone else behind her back, and he should have the courtesy to inform her of his decision and in the best manner possible so as to minimize the hurt caused to her.

And it's not my views that i'm sharing, rather what the scholars on islamqa think on the matter. According them, if given situation/context doesn't deem necessary informing the first wife then it's acceptable to do this. And i'm stating this because some here are saying it's her "right" to know this. If it was her islamic right then the scholars would have said otherwise.

Again brother you have looked at maybe 1 or 2 scholar but Islam encourages you to use your own brains too.
It's me alone who will be answerable in my grave.

 

[aaj]

Answer me this:

If no man can love two women equally and it's even written in the Quran.
Then why does Man try to abuse Islam and find loopholes?

The advice that all the sisters on this forum were giving was based on women's rights within Islam.

Don't take a Man's opinion they are only human. Islam is perfect - people are not.

You'll have to elaborate further on what are you referring to in regards to abuse and loopholes.

The advice the sisters are giving on this thread are not based on women's rights within Islam, it is based on assumptions on the intentions of the guy in question. I'm not taking the guys' side, but obviously there is bias in the responses with lot of accusations, especially given how little we know of the situation or the guy in question. Which is why I advised the OP to talk to the imam in person. Not only should she talk to the imam but also have him involved in the process of this relationship moving forward. Meeting the brother and talking to him will give the imam a better indication of and measure of him then what we know or are assuming.

 

[Umm♥Layth]

Regarding your situation. I see lot of bashing on the guy for wanting to marry you and his intentions being questioned. We truly do not know what is in his heart and we cannot assume his intentions unless he has given any indication of them through any means. So while Umm Layth's advice seems reasonable, it is still accusing the guy of less than honorable motives. He would be like that or he could not be like that. We do not know.

He has touched her and kissed her. That alone tells you where a man stands. An honorable man will NOT violate Allah's commands and initiate a romantic relationship with a non mahram without first asking for her hand and marrying her. Period.

We don't need to know what is in his heart, that is for Allah to know only. Allah has given us guidelines to follow to make proper judgement on our situations. From what I understand, he has not informed this sister that he is to be fully responsible financially, which is his duty if he is to marry her. It is very clear he plans to allow her to provide for herself, which clearly tells us where this man stands.

Don't justify what he is doing and play devil's advocate. You've probably never had somebody take advantage of you. I understand there is another side to this coin and we are basing our advice on what we can understand. If the sister would like to provide further details, she can.

Nobody is bashing anyone. Women tend to think with their hearts once a man has stepped in and logic goes out the window. We are trying to help her see through the emotions and preventing her from getting hurt. She is very young still and that's part of the issue.

I know SEVERAL sisters in western countries who are second wives to men with first wives overseas. They always get stuck fending for themselves which is not what Allah has ordained. Children suffer because of this, the consequences are quite large and it is usually for the sake of easy sex, immigration or other worldly gain. It isn't fair to the sister and I can help in any way, I will.

 

[sister herb]

"We don't plan on making the marriage serious"

Isn´t this tells enough about the basic intentions of this man? But basicly, it´s not needed for us to speculate does he tell to his the first wife or not or should he or should he not (of course, in general kind of question is interesting to discuss). It wasn´t that man who came here to ask our advices and opinions but sister who is planning to marry with that man. Not sure is it relevant to her to know does this man behave islamically or not as she isn´t Muslim but Christian.

 

[SemiraE]

Thank you for all the replies!

To all of you!

He is living in the same European country as me with his wife and kids since they are married.

He did touch me and kiss me because I would have never even consider to marry or have something with someone who can't touch me and kiss me I don't know how to explain it better...
he then asked me to marry him because he felt I'm special...

What I Said previously...I want to be independent. Not that I need to. He is more than willing to give me the treatment as he gives to his wife. He suggested I should quit my job because I am a workaholic so I can have free time and do other things I enjoy and he can support me financially. Which I refused cause I want a carrier. He wants to buy me a car and even an apartment If I want. Because his wife has the house and a car already. He is ready to support me in any way possible and be there for me. The only thing ... he won't be living with me because he wants to see his kids first thing when he wakes up...

He is a good man, I can see it but I don't think he realizes what he is asking from me... I don't wish to be a secret all my life or I don't know...

 

[sister herb]

So, I wish everything goes well and you two will be happy together forever (Insh´Allah - if Allah wills). I also hope that our opinions have been useful - and not too critical but you see, we have this our Islamic perspective to these kind of matters.

 

[aaj]

He has touched her and kissed her. That alone tells you where a man stands. An honorable man will NOT violate Allah's commands and initiate a romantic relationship with a non mahram without first asking for her hand and marrying her. Period.

We don't need to know what is in his heart, that is for Allah to know only. Allah has given us guidelines to follow to make proper judgement on our situations. From what I understand, he has not informed this sister that he is to be fully responsible financially, which is his duty if he is to marry her. It is very clear he plans to allow her to provide for herself, which clearly tells us where this man stands.

Don't justify what he is doing and play devil's advocate. You've probably never had somebody take advantage of you. I understand there is another side to this coin and we are basing our advice on what we can understand. If the sister would like to provide further details, she can.

Nobody is bashing anyone. Women tend to think with their hearts once a man has stepped in and logic goes out the window. We are trying to help her see through the emotions and preventing her from getting hurt. She is very young still and that's part of the issue.

I know SEVERAL sisters in western countries who are second wives to men with first wives overseas. They always get stuck fending for themselves which is not what Allah has ordained. Children suffer because of this, the consequences are quite large and it is usually for the sake of easy sex, immigration or other worldly gain. It isn't fair to the sister and I can help in any way, I will.

I did mention he started of with the haram. But if that is all that was his intention then he could have very well gone more into it rather than refrain and bring up marriage instead.

We don't need to know what's in his heart but at the same time we also don't need to assume what his intentions are with the given information. The sister said she will take care of her own expenses, she did not mention if she and him have had this discussion yet. So I don't know how we can assume he does not intend to do that. What happened to making 70 excuses for your brother first? Maybe they did not have that discussion or maybe they did or maybe they will later. We do not know and you are assuming he plans to bail on supporting her.

You are basing your advice on what little information is given and a whole lot of assumptions based on a lot of missing information. Regardless of how m any sisters you know, you are assuming every man will be the same and she will end up like them sisters. This is bias assumptions, not factual. So unless we get more information regarding what they have discussed or not discussed, all I see is a whole lot of assumptions on what he stands for and how he is just like all those who we turned out bad choice for some sisters you know. Are you sure you lots are not also throwing logic out the window and responding emotionally given your previous experience, be it personal or of knowing someone.

"We don't plan on making the marriage serious"

Isn´t this tells enough about the basic intentions of this man? But basicly, it´s not needed for us to speculate does he tell to his the first wife or not or should he or should he not (of course, in general kind of question is interesting to discuss). It wasn´t that man who came here to ask our advices and opinions but sister who is planning to marry with that man. Not sure is it relevant to her to know does this man behave islamically or not as she isn´t Muslim but Christian.

What that tells me is that I see a "we" in that sentence. Which means it was a two people decision. The context of that discussion or the details are unknown to us. And yet we are assuming this is intention of the man?

Just to make it clear, I'm not taking the side of this man. However, I would like to point out that a lot of the responses are biased and based on assumptions of what kind of a man he is. If you want to advise the OP then the focus should be on what Islam says and what her rights and options are, not how evil this man is. If she is in love with this man and enough to become a 2nd wife then your bias negativity towards him will do little to sway her. Giving her factual information and her options will be more helpful to her.

 

[aaj]

Thank you for all the replies!

To all of you!

He is living in the same European country as me with his wife and kids since they are married.

He did touch me and kiss me because I would have never even consider to marry or have something with someone who can't touch me and kiss me I don't know how to explain it better...
he then asked me to marry him because he felt I'm special...

What I Said previously...I want to be independent. Not that I need to. He is more than willing to give me the treatment as he gives to his wife. He suggested I should quit my job because I am a workaholic so I can have free time and do other things I enjoy and he can support me financially. Which I refused cause I want a carrier. He wants to buy me a car and even an apartment If I want. Because his wife has the house and a car already. He is ready to support me in any way possible and be there for me. The only thing ... he won't be living with me because he wants to see his kids first thing when he wakes up...

He is a good man, I can see it but I don't think he realizes what he is asking from me... I don't wish to be a secret all my life or I don't know...

If what you say is true then he is not as evil as the others made him out to be here. He is a man after all and in state of weakness he became intimate with you, which is something both Islam and Christianity forbids before marriage. However, all that is in the past. If this is something you want then I would advise you to learn about Islam, not so much as to convert but so that you know what your rights are upon him and what his rights are upon you so that you can make this work. Seeing that his family is in the country as well, living and sleeping arrangements will be difficult. I also don't like the fact he wants to make this a secrete marriage, there is no such thing in Islam. If he wants to honor you then he should not hide you away as his dirty shameful secrete. If this is something you want, talk to an Imam you trust and ask him to be your wali (guardian who puts your interests first) in this process. The imam will talk on your behalf (with you present) and help him realize what you want so that you are not taken advantage of in any way.

 

[Umm♥Layth]

Thank you for all the replies!

To all of you!

He is living in the same European country as me with his wife and kids since they are married.

He did touch me and kiss me because I would have never even consider to marry or have something with someone who can't touch me and kiss me I don't know how to explain it better...
he then asked me to marry him because he felt I'm special...

What I Said previously...I want to be independent. Not that I need to. He is more than willing to give me the treatment as he gives to his wife. He suggested I should quit my job because I am a workaholic so I can have free time and do other things I enjoy and he can support me financially. Which I refused cause I want a carrier. He wants to buy me a car and even an apartment If I want. Because his wife has the house and a car already. He is ready to support me in any way possible and be there for me. The only thing ... he won't be living with me because he wants to see his kids first thing when he wakes up...

He is a good man, I can see it but I don't think he realizes what he is asking from me... I don't wish to be a secret all my life or I don't know...

Thank you for your clarifications. This helps alot. In this case, I would ask you to think of the big picture. If you remain a secret, any children you have with him will also be secret. Marriage is a very serious thing in Islam, so not taking the marriage seriously as you have said is already starting this off on the wrong foot. There is no such thing a secret marriage in Islam.

I understand that you wouldn't consider somebody for marriage if they had not kissed or touched you, but HE knows better and if he wanted to honor you and respect you, he would have refrained from it and explain. You are special because you are young and new to him and you probably make him feel amazing about himself, something a wife of a long time often forgets to do.

You can always be independent even if he provides for you. In Islam, you are entitled to your wealth and do not have to spend it on housing and living expenses. That falls on the husband, PLEASE never give that right up for anyone. You never know what the future will bring. Invest your money instead

 

[Umm♥Layth]

Giving her factual information and her options will be more helpful to her.

Exactly. A man who insists to keep a marriage/relationship a secret is dishonoring the woman and taking away rights by doing so. This is factual and from our religion. A man who touches and kisses a woman out of marriage is dishonoring her, again this is factual. We are focused on HIM because HE is the Muslim, who already knows the rules. She does not. I wish somebody had told me everything I said to her before I married my first husband. It would have saved me alot of hardship and pain. Now that she has clarified the financial intentions, the picture is a bit different, but we did not have that information before you see.

 

[aaj]

Now that she has clarified the financial intentions, the picture is a bit different, but we did not have that information before you see.

I know we did not have all that information before, which is why I said there is lot of assuming going on here. This is why I said it would be more prudent and beneficial to focus on her in giving her the information rather then focusing on him, especially since you know from first hand experience how important that information is.