If creating sects, in islam is haraam, then why is there shia's and sunni's?

[Salahudeen]

Subanhallah, I'm calling you to the sunnah and to leave bid'a and your saying it's the biggest pile of rubbish you've ever heard.

You know what happens to Ahlul bid'a at Al Kawthar? they go to drink out the prophets (saw) pond and the angels descend and pull them away and the prophet peace be upon him says "what are you doing? these are from my ummah" then the angels will say "no you don't know what newly invented stuff they introduced into the religion after you" then the prophet (Saw) will say "take them".

Consider this

'Abdullaah ibn 'Umar radiallaahu 'anhu said:
"Every innovation is misguidance, even if the people consider it to be something good."

'Abdullaah ibn Mas'ood radiallaahu 'anhu said:
"Follow and do not innovate, for you have been given that which is sufficient [and every innovation is misguidance].

hmm are you understanding that hadith with your own intellect? it's very dangerous to interpret hadith based on your own understanding.

What the hadith is talking about is, at the start of any group gathering / lectures the speaker always mentions the name of Allah and then he sends salutations upon the prophet his family and his companions in order to implement this hadith you mentioned.

Just like you see at jummah before the imam addresses the congregation he implements the above hadith by remembering Allah and sending sallutations upon his prophet pbuh.

I don't know if you've been to any islamic lectures/gatherings but you'll notice the speaker always starts the discussion off by mentioniong the name of ALlah and he sends salutations upon the prophet and his family, they do this because of the hadith you quoted.

it dont mean we do big groupy zikr thing in unison and can you tell me why when these people do dhikr hey sway back n forth?

Where in the above hadith does it say gather and remember allah by saying Allah hu and shaking your heads?

Also the scholars over at Islam QA also agree that congregational dhikr is not from the sunnah, read the below.

With regard to dhikr recited in unison, the Standing Committee was asked about du’aa’ and dhikr recited in unison, and they answered:

The basic principle concerning dhikr and acts of worship is that there is no room for adding or subtracting anything. Allaah should only be worshipped in the ways that He has prescribed; this applies whether it is something that can be done at any time or something that is limited to a specific time and how it is to be done and how many times it is to be done. With regard to dhikrs and du’aa’s that Allaah has prescribed and all kinds of worship that are not limited with regard to time and numbers, location or a particular way in which they are to be done, it is not permissible for us to adhere to a particular way, time or number; rather we are to do these acts of worship without restrictions as it was prescribed.

In matters where it isproven in the words or deeds of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) that an action is to be done at a certain time or a certain number of times or in a certain place or in a certain manner, then we should worship Allaah in accordance with what has been prescribed. It has not been proven from the words or deeds or approval of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) that he recited du’aa’ in unison with others following the prayers, or after reading Qur’aan, or following each lesson, whether that took the form of the imaam reciting du’aa’ and the congregation saying Ameen to his du’aa’, or whether they all recited du’aa’ together in unison. That was not known at the time of the Rightly-Guided Khaleefahs or any of the Sahaabah (may Allaah be pleased with them). Whoever adheres to the practice of reciting du’aa’ in unison following the prayers or after reading Qur’aan or after every lesson has innovated something and introduced into the religion something which is not a part of it. It was narrated that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever innovates something in this matter of ours (i.e. Islam) that is not part of it will have it rejected.” And he said: “Whoever does something that is not in accordance with this matter of ours (Islam) will have it rejected.”

If it were prescribed to adhere to a certain way of doing it, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and his successors (khulafa’) after him would have adhered to that. We have stated above that no such thing was proven from him or from his companions (may Allaah be pleased with them). All goodness is to be found in following the guidance of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and the guidance of the Rightly-Guided Khulafa’ (may Allaah be pleased with them); all evil is to be found in going against their guidance and following the innovated matters against which the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) warned us by saying, “Beware of newly-innovated matters, for every innovation is misguidance.” May Allaah bless our Prophet Muhammad and his family and companions, and grant them peace.

Fataawa Islamiyyah, 4/178

see the bit where he says "Allaah should only be worshipped in the ways that He has prescribed;"

http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/10491/congregational dhikr[/COLOR]

 

[Salahudeen]

Also I have an hadith for you which you may find interesting, it's to do with what some people did after the prophet peace be upon him passed away and how Ibn Masud rebuked them for innovating something that wasn't done by the prophet peace be upon him. It basically refutes your hadith because the people were doing what you claim to be doing "remembering Allah" and Ibn Masud told them off. Surely ibn Masud wouldn't have admonished them for doing something that the prophet (peace be upon him approved of right)? lol

We used to sit in front of Abdullah ibn Masoud’s house before the Fajr prayer waiting to go with him to the Masjid. Abou Mousa al-Ash`aarie came and asked us:

‘Did Abu Abdurrahman (i.e. Ibn Masoud) leave yet?’

We answered: ‘No.’

So Abou Mousa Al-Ash`aarie sat with us waiting for him. When he came out, we all stood up. Abou Mousa told him:

“Oh, Abu Abdurrahman! I recently saw something in the Masjid which I did not approve.”

Ibn Masoud then asked: “What was it?”

Abou Mousa said: “You will see it if you stay alive..In the Masjid, I saw a group of people sitting in circles waiting for the Salat. Each circle is led by a person. And every person in these circles carries small stones.

The leader of a circle would say: ‘Say ‘Allah-u Akbar’ a hundred times,’ they will say Allah-u Akbar a hundred times; then he says ‘Say ‘La ilaha Illa Allah’, a hundred times” they will say La ilaha ill Allah a hundred times; he they says: ‘Say ‘Subhan Allah’, a hundred times, they will say Subhana Allah a hundred times.

Then Ibn Masoud said: “What did you tell them?”

He said: ‘I didn’t say anything, I wanted to wait for your opinion.”

Abdullah ibn Masoud said: “Could you not order them to count their sins, and assured them of getting their rewards.”

Then Abdulah ibn Masoud went ahead and we accompanied him. As he approached one of the circles, he said: “What is this that you are doing?”

They said: “Oh! Abu Abdurrahman, these are pebbles to count the number of times we say Allah-u Akbar, La ilaha Ill Allah, and Subhana Allah.”

He said: “Count your own sins, and I assure you that you are not going to lose anything of your rewards (Hasanat).. Woe unto you, people of Muhammad, how fast you will be doomed. Those are your Prophet’s companions available, these are his clothes not worn out yet, and his pots are not broken yet. I swear by Whom my soul is in His Hands that you are either following a religion that is better than the Prophet’s religion or you are opening a door of aberration.”

They said: “We swear by Allah, oh, Abu Abdurrahman, that we had no intention other than doing good deeds.”

He said: “So what? How many people wanted to do good deeds but never got to do them? The Prophet of Allah has told us about people who recited the Qur’an with no effect on them other than the Qur’an passing through their throats. I swear by Allah, I am almost sure that most of you are from that type of people.”

Then he left them.

Amr Ibn Salamah said: “We saw most of the people of those circles fighting us with the Khawarij in the battle of An-Nahrawan.”

- Related by Ad-Daremie and Abu Na`eim with an authentic chain.

"If it's allowed as you claim based upon the hadith that you quoted then ibn masud would not tell those people off in the masjid about their session and if that was the understanding of it then the sahaaba would of been the best and foremost at it but what you find is that they excelled in the correct dhikr wich is in private facing the qibla and reciting the various things the prophet saws told us to.

Why is Ibn Masood telling them off for doing something that you claim to be halal, have you become more knowledgable than Ibn masood? a great companion of the prophet saw

Al-Shafi’(RH), may Allaah have mercy on him, said: “I do not know of anyone among the Sahaabah and Taabi’een who narrated a report from the Messenger of Allaah (peace be upon him) without accepting it, adhering to it and affirming that this was sunnah Those who came after the Taabi’een, and those whom we met did likewise: they all accepted the reports and took them to be sunnah, praising those who followed them and criticizing those who went against them. Whoever deviated from this path would be regarded by us as having deviated from the way of the Companions of the Prophet (peace be upon him) and the scholars who followed them, and would be considered as one of the ignorant.

can you see any of the sahaabah and taabi'een doing congregational dhikr? rather they spoke out against it just like the first hadith mentions.



"So the above is an excellent narration, it encompasses many great principles, which are not known except to those who follow the Messenger sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam, those who do not put anything before Allaah and His Messenger, but rather say: We hear and we obey.

So from the principles are:

Firstly: That the One who prescribed the ends, did not Forget to prescribe the means. So when Allaah prescribed For His servants the dhikr (rememberance of Allaah), He did not forget to prescribe the means and the way to do this. So Allaah's Messenger sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam used to count the tasbeeh (glorifications of Allaah) upon his right hand [5] and he said that they (i.e., the fingers) will he questioned and would speak. [6]

Secondly: That al-bid'ah al-idbaafiyyah is misguidance. And al-bid'ah al-idbaafiyyah is: that type of innovation which is based upon a proof with regards to its foundation, but it has no proof with regards to the manner or the form. That is why it is called idbaafiyyah (something added on). And this type of innovation is, from one angle, directly against correct guidance, and from another angle, it is in agreement with it. So these people did not say something which is kufr (disbelief), nor did they do something which was in itself evil, rather they were remembering Allaah - and this is something which is prescribed by Revelation. However, the manner in which they performed this action went against the guidance laid down by Muhammad sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam, and so the Companions opposed them and told them to count this amongst their evil actions instead.

Thirdly: Allaah - the Most Perfect, the Most High - is not to be worshipped, except by what He prescribes. So He is not to be worshipped according to desires, customs or innovations.

Fourthly: That innovations kill off the Sunnah. So this group of people innovated a new way of performing dhikr (remembering Allaah), which was not reported from Allaah's Messenger sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam. So in doing this, they killed off the guidance of Muhammad sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam. And this is a principle which the Salafus-Saalih (Pious Predecessors) well understood, and they knew for certain that innovations and the Sunnah cannot unite together:

Hassaan ibn 'Atiyyah (d.120H)- rahimahullaah - said: "No people introduce an innovation into their religion, except that its like from the Sunnah is ripped away from them." [7]

Fifthly: That innovations are the cause for destruction, since it leads to abandoning the Sunnah, and this causes tremendous misguidance. The noble Companion 'Abdullaah ibn Mas'ood radiallaahu 'anhu said: "If you were to abandon the Sunnah of your Prophet then you would go astray." [8] So if the Ummah goes astray then it is destroyed. Therefore 'Abdullaah ibn Mas'ood said to that group: "O Ummah of Muhammad sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam! How quickly you head into destruction."

So the particular relevance of Ibn Mas'ood's understanding is reflected in the context of the above narration. So Abu Moosaa al-Ash'aree radiallaahu 'anhu did not criticise them, rather he waited for the view or the order of 'Abdullaah ibn Mas'ood radiallaahu 'anhu. And this stance was not merely taken out of love or out of displaying false affection to Ibn Umm 'Abd (i.e. to Ibn Mas'ood). Rather Abu Moosaa was pleased for himself with what Allaah's Messenger sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam was pleased with for his Ummah, since he sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam said: "l am pleased for my Ummah with what Ibn Umm 'Abd is pleased with for it." [9]

Also in the narration is a proof that all of the Companions were agreed in opposing this action, since 'Abdullaah ibn Mas'ood radiallaahu 'anhu used as a proof the fact that the Companions radiallaahu 'anhum were wide spread (and therefore could easily be asked).

Sixthly: Innovations quickly lead to kufr (disbelief). This is because the innovator has set himself up as one who is able to legislate and prescribe things; and thus set himself up as a partner to Allaah, adding things to the rulings laid down by Allaah, thinking that he is on a religion of better guidance than the Religion of Muhammad sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam.

Seventhly: That innovations open the doors widely for disagreements to occur, and this is a door to misguidance. So whosoever lays down an evil way in Islaam, then he bears the sin of it and the sin of those who act upon it, until the Day of Judgement, without their sin being reduced by anything. And this is because the one who guides to an evil action is like the one who does it.

Eighthly: Not giving importance to the matter of shunning innovations, leads to evil and sins. Do you not see that these people came to be amongst the ranks of the deviated group called the Khawaarij on the day of Nahrawaan, fighting against the Companions radiallaahu 'anhum, who were led by the Leader of the Believers 'Alee radiallaahu 'anhu, who cut-off this deviated group, on that memorable day.

Imaam al-Barbahaaree (d.329H)- rahimahullaah - said: "Beware of small innovations, because they grow and become large. This was the case with every innovation introduced into this Ummah. It started as something small, bearing a resemblance to the truth, which is why those who entered into it were misled, and then were unable to leave it. So it grew and it became the religion which they followed, so they deviated from the Straight Path and thus left Islaam. May Allaah have mercy upon you! Examine carefully the speech of everyone you hear from, in your time particularly. So do not act in haste, nor enter into anything from it, until you ask and see: Did any of the Companions of the Prophet sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam speak abou t it, or any of the (early) Scholars? So if you find a narration from them about it, cling to it and do not go beyond it for anything, nor give precedence to anything over it and thus fall into the Fire." [10]

Ninthly: Righteous actions are only according to righteous intentions, and a good intention does not make something which is futile correct. This is because intentions alone cannot make an action correct, but rather complying with the Sharee'ah (Prescribed Laws) must be added to that. [11]

Finally: Adding to something good is not good, because addition in good is evil, and this is something that is witnessed in everything. Thus, a matter, when it goes beyond its limits, changes to its opposite. So bravery, when it is added to, turns into rashness, and if it is decreased from, then it becomes cowardice. And generosity, if its limits are exceeded, then it becomes wastefulness, and if it is fallen short of, then it becomes miserliness. So the best of the affairs are the justly balanced ones.

And 'Abdullaah ibn Mas'ood radiallaahu 'anhu was not alone amongst the Companions in condemning innovations. So here we find 'Abdullaah ibn 'Umar radiallaahu 'anhu, who was one of severest from the Companions in condemning innovations and abandoning the innovators. So once he heard a man sneezing and saying: Praise be to Allaah and may the salaah and salaam (the praises of Allaah and blessings of peace) be upon Allaah's Messenger. So he said to him: What is this? This is not what Allaah's Messenger sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam taught us, rather he said: "When one of you sneezes then let him praise Allaah. " And he did not say: And also send salaah (blessings of peace) upon Allaah's Messenger. [12]

Likewise was the practice of the taabi'een (those who met the Companions and clung to their way). So in this regard there is what is reported from Sa'eed ibn al-Musayyib (d.90H) rahimahullaah, that he saw a man praying after the appearance of dawn, more than two rak'ahs, making many rukoos (bowings) and sajdahs (prostrations), so he forbade him from this. So the man said: O Abu Muhammad (i.e. Ibn al-Musayyib)! Will Allaah punish me for my Prayer? So he said: "No! But He will punish you for opposing the Sunnah (Prophetic guidance)." [13]

And these narrations contain many good points of benefit, so from them:

The Companions rebutting everyone who went against the au thentic Sunnah, sometimes being very severe in their rebuttal, even if it was against their own fathers and sons.

[ii] That bid'ah at-tarkiyyah is misguidance: And this type of bid'ah (innovation) is one for which there is a proof to establish the action, except that the people deliberately leave the action, thinking that it is a part of the Religion, or something similar to it. For example, some of the Soofees who abandon marriage in order to emasculate themselves. The proof for this being misguidance is from Allaah - the Most High's - saying:

"O you who Believe! Do not make haraam (unlawful) the good things that Allaah has made halaal (lawful) to you, and do not transgress. Indeed Allaah does not love the transgressors. And eat of the things that Allaah has provided for you, lawful and good, and have taqwaa (fear and obedience) of Allaah in Whom you believe." [Soorah al-Maa'idah 5:87-88].

So this aayah (verse) is concerned with a single meaning, which is: making forbidden that which Allaah has allowed from the good and pure things, and doing so as a matter of religion. And Allaah has forbidden this, and considered it as going beyond the limits, since it is transgressing upon Allaah's right, in that He alone has the right to prescribe and legislate. And Allaah does not love those who transgress the limits. Then Allaah affirmed the allowance of these things with an even greater emphasis by His saying:

"And eat of the things that Allaah has provided for you, lawful and good, and have taqwaa (fear and obedience) of Allaah in Whom you believe." [Soorah al-Maa'idah 5:87-88].

Then he ordered them to have taqwaa (piety and obedience to Him). So this shows that the forbiddance of what Allaah has made lawful, in any form, is outside the bounds of taqwaa. Therefore, the Messenger sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam said to those three men who came to the houses of the Prophet sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam, asking about his worship and then on being informed about it, considered their own worship to be very little, so they said: What a great difference there is between us and the Prophet sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam, whose previous and latter sins have been forgiven by Allaah. So one of them said: I will always Pray during the night. The other one said: I will always fast during the day and not break my fast. And the third of them said: I will keep away from women and never get married. Then Allaah's Messenger came to them and said: "Are you the people who said such and such? By Allaah! I am the one who is the most knowledgeable about Allaah amongst you, and the one who has the most taqwaa of Him. Yet I fast and break my fast, I pray and I sleep, and I marry women. So whosoever turns away from my Sunnah (guidance) is not from me." [14]

So if the Companions radiallaahu 'anhum left for us words of deep insight and which clearly enlighten the hearts, then men after them, who likewise attained the truth from this light, have also left for us words which are almost like the words of the Companions. And this is because they were those who very closely followed in the footsteps of the Companions - and the likes of their sayings have already preceded. However we add here a final example of their stance of truth:

Thus, a man came to Imaam Maalik (d.179H)- rahimahullaah - and said: O Abu 'Abdullaah! Where shall I enter the state of ihraam (the dress for one intending to do Pilgrimage)? So Imaam Maalik replied: "From Dhul-Hulayfah, where Allaah's Messenger sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam entered the state of ihraam." The man then said: But I wish to enter the state of ihraam at the mosque by his grave. So Imaam Maalik said: "Do not do that, for I fear for you the fitnah (trial)." So the man said: What fitnah are you referring to, since it is only a few extra miles: So Imaam Maalik said: "And what fitnah can be greater than for you to think that you have attained some virtue, which Allaah's Messenger sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam fell short of. Have you not heard the saying of Allaah:

"Let those beware who oppose the command of the Prophet sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam, lest they are afflicted with fitnah (trial), or lest they are afflicted with a painful punishment." [Soorah an-Noor 24:63]." [15]

http://www.islamcanada.com/articles/Every Innovation is Misguidance.htm

 

[Humbler_359]

You may remember LAST words of our Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) in his last speech to his followers, "I leave you two things, which if you follow you will never deviate, "The Qur’an and my Sunnah.”


The best guidance is the best Sunnah (path or way) of Muhammad (PBUH).

Islam is to follow Quran and the Sunnah of the Prophet. If someone rejects the Sunnah then it is like he has rejected Islam. One has to take care not to be mislead by some deviant groups into leading you astray. Quran and Sunnah are the basis of Islam. These two sources of Islam we follow on the understanding of the companions of the Prophet. Which means that we follow their interpretaion as they took it from the Prophet pbuh and not make our own interpretaions and judgements. Allah guides whom He wills.

Allaah says: “Your companion (Muhammad) is neither astray nor being misled. Nor does he speak of his own desire. It is (only) the revelation with which he is inspired” (Surah An-Najm 53:2-4)

More information

 

[Salahudeen]

^ it's evident from the hadith I posted that the companions didn't see congregational dhikr as acceptable because it wasn't in accordance with the sunnah.

I'm assuming the sister has been raised as a sufi all her life and has no concept of innovation, so this is all very confusing for because she's been led to believe that you can do whatever act of worship you want as long as it's good. even if the prophet (saw) or sahabba didn't do it, the fact that it's an innovation and added onto the religion by some 1 else doesn't seem to register. As long as you're doing something good.

I to was raised as a sufi and had no concept of innovation, I just believed what ever peer saab told me and followed him blindly, then 1 day I asked myself,

"can you really see Muhammed (saw) Umar, abu bakar, uthmaan such great men all sitting alone together in a dark room going "allah hu" and shaking their heads violently and dancing like they're possessed fools".

the answer was no I couldn't, then I began to learn sunni Islam and I learnt that this act is an innovation praticed by sufi's, I also learnt that it's haraam to go to Darbaar's and made dua to the dead saints and I also learnt that no sheikh can become 1 with Allah to the point he no longer needs to pray and fast no matter how high his emaan goes.

Then I left sufism and came to Qur'an and sunnah and all my relatives started going waaahabi bangyaa (he's become waaaahabi) lool

it didn't occur to them that I became a sunni because they classed themselves as sunni, sufism didn't even register as a sect with them, they referred to themselves as sunni even though they're very far from the sunnah, and following braveli/sufi teachings. The trouble is it's hard to educate someone who doesn't think for themselves and just believes everything their parent feeds them even if it's incorret.

My parents say this so it has to be correct, no chance of my parents being wrong, big peer saab so and so says this so it has to be correct.

It's hard you see because you won't find a sufi/brelvi who doesn't claim to be following Qur'an and sunnah, they all claim to be upon Qur'an sunnah. The trouble is how they interpret the Qur'an and sunnah. It's not interpred to how the sahabba and companions interpreted it, it's interpreted according to their sheikhs and own intellects.

So they follow Qur'an and sunnah but they follow it according to their own incorrect interpretations of hadith and Quranic ayah's as the sister demonstrated previously.

Just posted a hadith and used it to justify something incorrect, when the correct interpretation of that hadith is the speaker mentions the name of allah and sends salutations upon the prophet (saw) before beginning the gathering, but she interpreted it incorrectly maybe with her own intellect or according to the interpretation of some sufi sheikh Allah hu alam.

 

[wayseer]

If someone rejects the Sunnah then it is like he has rejected Islam.

Assalamu alaikum

I am only a learner as far as Islam is concerned so please forgive my ignorance if not my questions.

From what I have learned thus far it seems that for one to become a Muslim, that is someone of the Islamic faith, one simply needs to acknowledge Allah swt and that Muhammad pbuh is his prophet.

If such is the case then how is it that if one rejects the Sunnah, which is apparently contained in the hadith, one is rejecting Allah swt and his Prophet pbuh?

Peace

W

 

[Salahudeen]

^ Because the sunnah tells us how to be Muslims, for example the Qur'an doesn't tell us how to pray, but when we go to the sunnah we learn how to pray.

The Qur'an tells us to cut the hands of a theif off, when we go to the sunnah we learn that a certain amount has to be stolen for the hands to be cut off, you don't get your hands chopped for stealing a pencil.

The Qur'an without the sunnah would be very hard to intepret, as you're aware a book can be interpreted in many different ways.

You could read a paragraph and come to your own conclusion about what that particular paragraph means and what it's refferring to and I could have my on opinion about what it means and we'd differ with regards to the meaning of it.

But when we go to the sunnah we learn the real meaning of it because we understand it how the Prophets companions understood it, If anyone knows the correct interpretation of a verse they do because their teacher was the prophet pbuh himself.

In todays world it's common, a person comes forward and says

"I read the qur'an and this verse means this"

but when you go to the sunnah and see how the companions understood that verse you know what is the correct understanding of that verse and the interpretation that the person made based upon his own intellect is incorrect.

Also the sunnah is important because we derive much of our islamic law from it like I mentioned the example of cutting the hands off.

Also the prophet himself is recorded to have said "If you want god to love you then folllow my sunnah (my way)"

Without the sunnah we wouldn't know how to pray and many other things, the two go hand in hand.

Muslims's are so passionate about following the prophets peace be upon him sunnaah (way) that we make our appearance to be like his e.g the long beard.

 

[Sampharo]

brother sempharo:

....

I actually meant this, thanks though

Who is the Imam that wrote this and which university or center he teaches in? Has any other Imam agreed with him? Source is necessary to investigate, this person is overturning authentication made by over 5 legendary classifiers. He seems to also fail in mentioning the basis of this. It could be a khawarej or other sectarian propagator answering with a simple lie to dodge an embarrassing question.

[FONT=&quot]If all these sects are going to be in Hellfire except one, why are they permitted to visit the Sacred House of Allah (i.e. the Ka‘bah)? ?[/FONT]
...
so yeah please answer.. WHY are sunni's NOT a sect?

[FONT=&quot]Alex, you need to go and read about this subject calmly and in detail, so as to learn it from A to Z well and proper, without trying to conclude your way to its understanding by asking a thousand argumentative questions, some of which are just plain easy to see. Why are sects permitted to go to Kaaba? Because they don't write "misguided sectarian" on their visa applications!!! Why sunnis are not a sect you were already told that this is the mainstream that follows the prophet precise revelation and were called like that by the prophet himself.

I now feel you're trying to make an argumentative theory based on your own thoughts when you hardly have any knowledge of the basics, and I really must ask you for your sake not to delve into that which you don't know with such arguments and theories.

[/FONT]

:hmm: Its kind of funny you claiming Sufis are "innovators" yet you yourself are talking absolute nonsense.

What is wrong with gathering and remembering Allah SWT? How can you say this is wrong?!!

Also Answer this, where does it say we are allowed to use the Microwave? Are we all innovators because we use the microwave?

Zhikr as you've been told by squiggle is to mention God at the beginning of a lecture, and to actually HAVE a lecture about God. Jumping up and down and saying "Allah" is not a worship that the prophet ordained, and the fiqh rule on worship is that it is Mawqoof, meaning ANY additions are forbidden. This is because they violate a simple paradox: "To say this worship is good and loved by God suggests one of two things: Either the prophet -pbuh- didn't know about it, or that he refused to deliver the message completely (which suggests you believe he is fallible in religion and that God did not say the truth in the Quran verse "[FONT=Verdana,arial]This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion."[/FONT]
اليوم أكملت لكم دينكم و أتممت عليكم نعمتي و رضيت لكم الإسلام دينًا)

Matters of life and work and microwaving are not Mawqoofa and therefore we can microwave and ride cars all that we want.

Additionally, sufi's are not accused of being innovators for getting together and saying "Allah". They are innovators because they get together and say "Allah" while jumping up and down or swaying right and left in order to motivate an adrenaline rush and "get high" thinking that it is a mystical presence, and they do that following the teachings of dead people whom they were falsely told had miracles and "secret ways" given to him by divine inspiration and that this is HIS WAY of becoming one with God, later asking the "mureedeen" or followers to visit the Waleyy grave in order to cry and rub at the altar and ask him to concede in getting them money or children, rather than ask God directly. THAT is what is taken against sufi groups.

Wallahu Al-MostaAAan, this IS becoming controversial.

 

[Salahudeen]

^ as my brother sampharo said x2