If Jesus was GOD

[*noor]

Ultimately, there is only one religion that is correct. This is because religion is what God sent down to us so that we may live by it. Why would God send down more than one correct religion??

Just think about it. There is only one religion and no other. What you believe is up to you. It is our jobs as Muslims to invite others to the right path. You can either choose to believe it or not. There is no compulsion in Islam.

The fact that Christians believe the Jesus is God or the son of God or anything other than a human being is just due to the fact that the bible has been changed so many times. It has been changed so many times that there are so many contradictions in it, or should I say them. It is obvious that the Bible is not based on truth. Just look at how many different Bibles there are. I mean its hard to pick up a Bible and then go somewhere else and find the same one.

Just think about it?

and i'd just like to say that if you don't like this section on the forum because it goes against your beliefs somehow, no one is forcing you to come to this section and read these kinds of threads.
maybe the reason some people keep coming to these threads is because they are not sure about what they believe??
just a thought

If there are so many versions of the so called Bible, what does that mean? If Christians are not sure whether Jesus (pbuh) was God or his son, what does that mean??

 

[duskiness]

It has been changed so many times how many?

when? by who? what was changed?

Just look at how many different Bibles there are. I mean its hard to pick up a Bible and then go somewhere else and find the same one.

how many? what the differneces are? or maybe - that's just a hint - you are talking about TRANSLATION of Bible??? Because we have 3 tranlaslations of Quran in polish, but ONE Quran. The same with Bible - many translations, ONE Bible

If there are so many versions of the so called Bible, what does that mean?

it means you are speaking about TRANSLATION

If Christians are not sure whether Jesus (pbuh) was God or his son, what does that mean??

not sure???? or maybe you don't know basic beliefs of christians?
n.

 

[*noor]

when? by who? what was changed?
how many? what the differneces are? or maybe - that's just a hint - you are talking about TRANSLATION of Bible??? Because we have 3 tranlaslations of Quran in polish, but ONE Quran. The same with Bible - many translations, ONE Bible
it means you are speaking about TRANSLATION
not sure???? or maybe you don't know basic beliefs of christians?
n.

here's a site that might help you understand:

http://www.cesame-nm.org/Viewpoint/contributions/bible/versions.html

and no I wasn't referring to simple translations....i was referring to eliminating, adding and changing parts.

 

[*noor]

and here's one from another site

http://islamcode.com/BibleACloserLook.html

 

[duskiness]

here's a site that might help you understand:
http://www.cesame-nm.org/Viewpoint/contributions/bible/versions.html
and no I wasn't referring to simple translations....i was referring to eliminating, adding and changing parts.

i' ve asked you because Muslim seem to think, that every christian has his/hers own Bible, that our church have deliberetly added or omitted truthes. It seems many like to repeat chorus: "many variation and changes".
But truth is that, if you would really go to bookshop ,i'm 99% sure you wouldntt find any.
and that's a christian pov on Bible:
http://www.katapi.org.uk/BibleMSS/II.htm
or ://www.rinconhosting.net/users/bibletest/articles/BibleAccuracy.htm

and reps for not quoting answering-christians :giggling:
your link is quite a good side. oh..and btw: i knew most of it, i had to learn this
so when used word "variation" you were speaking about differences between thos oldest witnesses of Bible text?
Today we try to base translations on the oldest codexes (01 & 03). And we use effects of work of critics. Our Bibles are probably as accuret as it can be for such a old text. And then any variations (that's the places where critics are not sure) in todays NT's text reach 1% of text valume.
from this side:

The important points to notice are:

(1) Many different versions of the Bible, none autographic, have existed since antiquity;

Quran aslo has no autigraphs. It quite strange to ask for 2000 years old autogaph...as far as variations goes we have 2400 manuscripts of Bible. Hand writen. so it's quite obivious that there are differnces (i fact that's kind of miracle that there are so few...). Thats were text critic comes.
Btw. no faith truth depends on parts of text that maith be found dubious...

(2) Some of the versions differ significantly from each other;

2 differ "significantly" in few percents of text...but how i said today we use text critic and older=more "sure" witnesses of text....so it would be hard to find variations in Bibles in bookshop

(3) It is virtually impossible to confirm which of several ancient variants is the most authentic (particularly true of the Old Testament);

as far as i know, that's not true about NT, about OT i know less...

(4) The oldest manuscripts generally exist only as fragments (often in very poor condition);

i thought that is obvious? The same is true for all books. Quran included

(5) Translation from the original tongues is difficult and no single translation can be considered truly authentic.

:uuh: once again- isn't that obvious?

I mean its hard to pick up a Bible and then go somewhere else and find the same one.

not hard at all? have you try?
ahhh...i believe that was just a rethorical constraction aimed to present who silly those christinas are...
...but Noor (Light? ) you can safly go to bookshop and look for Bible. You want find "variations" or "changes". (there is only "deuterocanonical books" case...).
n.

 

[- Qatada -]

That is a completely silly belief. It sounds like it was invented by Muslims for their own purpose.

If, instead, Muslims said: “Jesus died on the cross but we don’t believe the next part” This would make Islam believable.

Instead, this one point makes Islam look silly and therefore everything about Islam must be false.

Believing that Jesus (peace be upon him) was elevated to Allaah is nothing unusual. Believing that he is the messenger of Allaah is also easy to understand.


The concept that i find hard to believe is that if Jesus (peace be upon him) was really God, then why was he crucified by a jewish slave? Isn't that blasphemy? I'm sure that if one was to say that a human killed God, it would be blasphemy in any faith. And it remove's the perfection of the concept of 'god'.

Yet you say that islam is strange for believing that the Creator elevated one of His slave's to the heaven's.



Allaah Almighty know's best.



Peace.

 

[duskiness]

The concept that i find hard to believe is that if Jesus (peace be upon him) was really God, then why was he crucified by a jewish slave? Isn't that blasphemy? I'm sure that if one was to say that a human killed God, it would be blasphemy in any faith. And it remove's the perfection of the concept of 'god'.

:giggling: that's the part of my faith i love most. God not only "high above" but aslo so low

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

God is above his creation. He doesn't need to come down in the form of a human, which would make Him lose His uniqueness, to prove His existence. Thats what I love about mine! ;D

 

[*noor]

I'm sure that if one was to say that a human killed God, it would be blasphemy in any faith. And it remove's the perfection of the concept of 'god'.

Now there's something worth thinking about!

 

[snakelegs]

Greetings and peace be with you snakelegs,

You have some remarkable qualities, you need a job as a peacemaker, or in an interfaith organisation or maybe the UN.

May God continue to bless you

Eric

what a nice compliment - thank you!
actually, it is easy for me because i am pretty neutral about religions, so i don't get as emotional as the believers.

 

[snakelegs]

and i'd just like to say that if you don't like this section on the forum because it goes against your beliefs somehow, no one is forcing you to come to this section and read these kinds of threads.
maybe the reason some people keep coming to these threads is because they are not sure about what they believe??
just a thought

believe it or not, i come to this section because since i've joined this forum i have become interested in comparitive religion. and i've learned a lot here.
i just get tired of threads that only exist due to the "my religion is better than yours, which is wrong wrong wrong" syndrome.
i don't agree with either christianity or islam (or any others, for that matter) - tho i like many things from each, but i think everyone has a right to expect respect for their religion - this does not mean agreement.
asking questions because you really want to learn about some one else's religion is fine, but i wish some people would ask themselves first "do i really want to know the answer or do i just want to make my point by taking a jab at their religon?"
i realise people have very strong feelings about their religions and i think it would be wise to keep this in mind - that others feel as strongly about their religions as you do about yours.
personally, i enjoy learning what different religions have in common with each other, as well as their differences.

 

[*noor]

Peace Duskiness

Its now a step up that you realized cannot be bible is not 100% accurate and that even Christian sites admit to it but there are still some things that I want to explain to you.

first to answer your question, yes, i have gone to several places like libraries and friends houses and found different versions of the bible. among them were the new testament, old testament, the king james bible, and some others.

here you might want to look at this site...please give it a chance

and by the way, this site is by a former Christian Chaplain

http://islamcode.com/BibleACloserLook.html

http://islamcode.com/bible/bible_closer_look_ch1.html

http://islamcode.com/bible/bible_closer_look_ch3.html

http://islamcode.com/bible/bible_closer_look_ch4.html

http://islamcode.com/bible/bible_closer_look_ch5.html

let me know what you think after reading the content on the links

 

[*noor]

believe it or not, i come to this section because since i've joined this forum i have become interested in comparitive religion. and i've learned a lot here.

thats great

personally, i enjoy learning what different religions have in common with each other, as well as their differences.

ok its a good thing that you don't get offended because I don't think most people on here have the intention of offending others.

 

[islamicfajr]

Peace Duskiness

Its now a step up that you realized cannot be bible is not 100% accurate and that even Christian sites admit to it but there are still some things that I want to explain to you.

first to answer your question, yes, i have gone to several places like libraries and friends houses and found different versions of the bible. among them were the new testament, old testament, the king james bible, and some others.

here you might want to look at this site...please give it a chance

and by the way, this site is by a former Christian Chaplain

http://islamcode.com/BibleACloserLook.html

http://islamcode.com/bible/bible_closer_look_ch1.html

http://islamcode.com/bible/bible_closer_look_ch3.html

http://islamcode.com/bible/bible_closer_look_ch4.html

http://islamcode.com/bible/bible_closer_look_ch5.html

let me know what you think after reading the content on the links

Nice...post...but.if they read...

i hope so
gazakum Allah khyran...

<wasalam alaykum>

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Someone want to explain this one please =) If u dont mind...thanx
God [is] not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do [it]? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
23:19

 

[islamicfajr]

"Hear O' Israel, the L-rd is our G-d, the L-rd is one!

Shema Yisrael Hashem Eloyhenu, Hashem Echad!

The most important prayer of the Jewish people. It is followed by chanting of three paragraphs of the most important commandements we are given. Shema Yisrael comprises of Deuteronomy 6:4-9, 11:13-21, and Numbers 15:37-41.

The God of the Jews is a National God, notice in your quote how it says:



שְׁמַע, יִשְׂרָאֵל: יְהוָה אֱלֹהֵינוּ, יְהוָה אֶחָד.
Hear, O Israel: the LORD our God, the LORD is one.

The God of the Muslims is a universial God:

الحمد لله رب العالمين

All praise is due to ALLAH alone, Lord of all the worlds. ..(1:2)

peace,

islamicfajr

 

[islamicfajr]

jesus just a prophet Allah creat him 4m dust...

Someone want to explain this one please =) If u dont mind...thanx
God [is] not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do [it]? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
23:19

....if jesus was God...ru Accept worship man like u...

...jesus is just a prophet All creat him 4m dust like All us....


Surely the likeness of Isa is with Allah as the likeness of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him, Be, and he was.(3:5)

[116] And behold! Allah will say: "O 'Isa the son of Maryam! didst thou say unto men, 'Worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah'?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, Thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, though I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden. [117] "Never said I to them aught except what Thou didst command me to say, to wit, 'Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord'; and I was a witness over them whilst I dwelt amongst them; when thou didst take me up thou wast the Watcher over them, and Thou art a witness to all things. (5:116-116)

.............
[170] O mankind! the Messenger hath come to you in truth from Allah: believe in him; it is best for you. But if ye rejected Faith, to Allah belong all things in the heavens and on earth: and Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise.

[171] O People of the Book! commit no excesses in your religion: nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Al-Masih 'Isa the son of Maryam was (no more than) A Messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Maryam, and a Spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not "Trinity": desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is One God: glory be to Him: (far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.
[172] Al-Masih disdaineth not to serve and worship Allah, nor do the angels, those nearest (to Allah): those who disdain His worship and are arrogant, He will gather them all together unto Himself to (answer). (4:170-172)

................
[17] In blasphemy indeed are those that say that Allah is Al-Masih the son of Maryam. Say: "Who then hath the least power against Allah, if His Will were to destroy Al-Masih the son of Maryam, his mother, and all, everyone that is on the earth? For to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between. He createth what He pleaseth. For Allah hath power over all things."

[18] (Both) the Jews and the Christians say: "We are sons of Allah, and His beloved." Say: "Why then doth He punish you for your sins? Nay, ye are but men, of the men He hath created: He forgiveth whom He pleaseth, and He punisheth whom He pleaseth: and to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between: and unto Him is the final goal (of all)."

[19] O People of the Book! now hath come unto you, making (things) clear unto you, Our Messenger, after the break in (the series of) Our Messengers, lest ye should say: "There came unto us no bringer of glad tidings and no warner (from evil)"; but now hath come unto you a bringer of glad tidings and a warner (from evil). And Allah hath power over all things.

(5:17-19)
.................
[72] They do blaspheme who say: "Allah is Al-Masih the son of Maryam." But said Al-Masih: "O Children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Whoever joins other gods with Allah, Allah will forbid him the Garden, and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help.

[73] They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One God. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them.

[74] Why turn they not to Allah and seek His Forgiveness? For Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

[75] Al-Masih, the son of Maryam, was no more than a Messenger; many were the Messengers that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how Allah doth make His Signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!

[76] Say: "Will ye worship, besides Allah, something which hath no power either to harm or benefit you? But Allah, He it is that heareth and knoweth all things."


[77] Say: "O People of the Book! exceed not in your religion the bounds (of what is proper), trespassing beyond the truth, nor follow the vain desires of people who went wrong in times gone by, who misled many, and strayed (themselves) from the even Way.

[78] Curses were pronounced on those among the Children of Israel who rejected Faith, by the tongue of Dawud and of 'Isa, the son of Maryam, because they disobeyed and persisted in Excesses.

[80] Thou seest many of them turning in friendship to the Unbelievers. Evil indeed are (the works) which their souls have sent forward before them (with the result), that Allah's wrath is on them, and in torment will they abide.

[81] If only they had believed in Allah, in the Prophet, and in what hath been revealed to him, never would they have taken them for friends and protectors, but most of them are rebellious wrong-doers

(5:72-81)
..................
[62] This is the true account; there is no god except Allah; and Allah, He is indeed the Exalted in Power, the Wise.
.................

[47] She said: "O my Lord! how shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?" He said: "Even so: Allah createth what He willeth: when He hath decreed a Plan, He but saith to it, `Be', and it is! (3:47)


..................

[59] The similitude of 'Isa before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him "Be": and he was. (3:59)

.................

[59] He was no more than a servant: We granted Our favour to him, and We made him an example to the Children of Israel. (43:59)

...............

........Say: "Allah is the Creator of all things: He is the One, the Supreme and Irresistible."(13:16)

...............
peace ,

islamicfajr

 

[duskiness]

first to answer your question, yes, i have gone to several places like libraries and friends houses and found different versions of the bible. among them were the new testament, old testament, the king james bible, and some others.

Salam Noor.
did i understand correctly: you say you have seen variations in Bible because you have seen Old Testament, then New and then King's Jemes Bible?????

Bible is divided into Old and New Testament.
Bible in fact is not one book but BOOKS.
Old Testament is the same for both Jew and us
New Testament (27 books) is "Christian-only" part of Bible. Here you find stories about Jesus, disciples, letters, revelation
Sometimes one Testament is sold as separate book (looking on my own book shelf- i have one edition of Bible in 1 volume and the other edition containing only New Testament with Psalms). But Noor, this doesn't make it a variation!
King Jame's Bible is one of many translations of Bible into english.

So your statment for christians sound similarly to: "I have seen variation in Quran, among them: sura 1, sura 2 and Pickthall's Quran"
It's wrong isn't it? For THE SAME REASONS wrong is also your statement.
You haven't seen variations in Bible.

As for your link - I don't promise but you have asked, so i'll try to read them a bring my comments.
take care
n.

 

[duskiness]

Re: jesus just a prophet Allah creat him 4m dust...

....if jesus was God...ru Accept worship man like u...

i'm sometimes picky (nobody's perfect :giggling: )
but from logical point of view it should go:
....if jesus was God... -----> ru Accept worship God
and on the other hand
....if jesus was man ------> ru Accept worship man like u....
n.

 

[ManchesterFolk]

The God of the Jews is a National God, notice in your quote how it says:



שְׁמַע, יִשְׂרָאֵל: יְהוָה אֱלֹהֵינוּ, יְהוָה אֶחָד.
Hear, O Israel: the LORD our God, the LORD is one.

The God of the Muslims is a universial God:

الحمد لله رب العالمين

All praise is due to ALLAH alone, Lord of all the worlds. ..(1:2)

What do you mean a National God? The God of the Jews proclaims many times throught the Torah that he is a God of all mankind. But don't let fact get in your way. You never do.


"Hear O' Israel" is the Jews calling out to there fellow people proclaiming God's oneness.