If Only We Were Ruled By Islam

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but no one tells us we can't have one
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You can't have one.
Well that settles that.

A perfect state is not a new idea. Utopia is the common term. It should be a goal, but it will never be reached.
 
cheese said:
Nimrod

Who said Islam wont work there? The problem is they dont impliment Islam properly.

Turkey- What a wonderful example, their government banned school girls wearing hijab!! What kind of Islamic nation is that? Theres even a law that says you cant teach kids under 15 the Quran!! So, no i wont be using them as an example of an Islamic state- they are more liek Muslims without Islam.

Just becuase a country has a large muslim population, doesnt mean Islam is being properly implimented at a government level.
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But it does mean that it is unrealistic and apparently hard to implement. So, it is not a solution to the world problems. If even countries that are 100% Muslim with culturally homogenous populations fail to implement it properly then surely it doesn't stand a chance in the rest of the world.

For the system to provide a solution it must be feasible and obtainable. If any system of government fails that test we should discard it and look for something else.

Sure, liberal democracy is not perfect. But as Churchill supposedly once said: "It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except for all the others that have been tried." We should always look for new and better ways of governing ourselves, but I just don't see how an Islamic State can be seen as a feasible alternative.

P.S. what was unfair about the original article is that it compares features of an actual implemented system of government (liberal democracy) with the features of a theoretical, unimplemented, untested ideal-typical system of government (islam). Thats simply an unfair comparison.
 
Vahid said:
haha BS, u dont understand the concept of caliphate system i guess, u think it has to be perfect in every way to be called caliphate? u think it means everyone will be in piece and every single person will be fed and all will be happy and good? That is just ur ignorance.
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Not just his ignorance apparently, it seems to me thats exactly what the author of the original article is claiming?

no it means Allah’s law's are implemented to the best ability of man and wars and such will happen a lot more in fact to the believers to test them which Quran has mentioned.

We had functioning Caliphate states until before ww1 which is 1400 years or so until nationalists like Lawrence and Kmal Atruk (sp?) ended it. Some were better than others but that is to be expected from humans, no one is perfect
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Interesting. I often hear many saying that there has never been a real Islamic State since the time of Muhammed. Can there be a caliphate without there being an Islamic State? Do you consider all Caliphs since Abu Bakr to be true successors of the Prophet?
 
Fi_Sabilillah said:
:wasalamex


Think not of those who are slain in Allah's way as dead. Nay, they live, finding their sustenance in the presence of their Lord;

They rejoice in the bounty provided by Allah: And with regard to those left behind, who have not yet joined them (in their bliss), the (Martyrs) glory in the fact that on them is no fear, nor have they (cause to) grieve.

They glory in the Grace and the bounty from Allah, and in the fact that Allah suffereth not the reward of the Faithful to be lost (in the least.)


[Qur'an 3: 169-171]


Just cry that he is rejoicing, while you're still in this world full of corruption. If you're sincere enough, Allaah azawajal may accept your dua' insha'Allaah. ameen.


:salamext:
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That is true, mashaAllah. I did make du'a for him. If his martyrdom is accepted, then he truly is the luckiest man in the world.
W'salaam
 
nimrod said:
Taqiyah “I totally agree with you!
I just wish Islam would rule the world real soon”.

When Islam reforms and starts to rule like I hear Muslims should rule, then I might begin to agree with you.

Till then, if Muslims can’t enact Islam in their own countries, why would I ever want them ruling mine?

Folks, I know some folks might take offense at what I have posted.

When Muslims by in-large start taking greater offense toward those who miss-use Islam,
in Muslim countries, then they will gain a better seat at the table.

I wish there was a kinder way of saying that, I really do.

It kind of puts me in mind of Gandhi’s statement, to the British, that folks preferred their own bad government as opposed to an outside better government.

If you prefer an Islamic government, fine, just please, wait till after you have a single example in today’s world, that shows us all how wonderful it is, before you ask to have it enacted anywhere else.

If Islam doesn’t work in Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, Turkey, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Syria, Iran, Iraq ect….. then how is it ever supposed to work in Bali? Much less Briton or Canada, Japan, Russia, or the USA …ect?

Thanks
Nimrod
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I don't think anyone intends to make an islamic state in the west before sorting out the so-called 'muslim' countries. That would just be silly.
 
Cherub said:
There is not a single example of a proper functioning Islamic state throughout the history of mankind.
Even when Muhammed was alive there was infighting among Muslims, there was injustice and there were wars.
At times Muslim rulers would experience periods of peace and prosperity but they never lasted.

Why does Sharia not work ? Because it's flawed and the rules contained in the Qu'ran and hadith offer no solutions to every and all problems through all time.

Also i know of no one that considers democracy and capitalism as the "perfect" system it's just the best mankind has come up with.
And quite frankly it shows.
Countries that do base there laws on Sharia however tend to be very corrupt and backwards.

The thing is.. that IF Sharia law was in anyway "better" it would have survived to this day, and everyone in the world would have such a system of government.
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The only reason Muslims are in the state taht they are in today is because of our sins. 'Umar ibn al Khattab said to Sa'b ibn Abi Waqas before the battle of Qadisiyyah:
“Fear your sins more than you fear the enemy as your sins are more dangerous to you than your enemy. We Muslims are only victorious over our enemy because their sins outnumber ours, not for any other reason. If our sins were equal to those of our enemy, then they would defeat us due to their superior numbers and resources.”

And that is true. We lost the khilaafah because we had pigs for leaders. And we had pigs for leaders because they had monkeys for subjects. When return to Islam and practice it and implement it fully, then we will see a change.
Allah says in the Qur'an:

If Allah helps you, none can overcome you. If He forsakes you, who is there, after that, that can help you? In Allah, then, let believers put their trust! [3:160]

That is the way a believer thinks, he puts his trust in Allah, and in return Allah helps him.
Oh, and there were battles for a reason. It wasn't needless violence. It would be nice if you looked at the context.
Now please tell me where the injustice was in the prophet's time.
 
KAding said:
But it does mean that it is unrealistic and apparently hard to implement. So, it is not a solution to the world problems. If even countries that are 100% Muslim with culturally homogenous populations fail to implement it properly then surely it doesn't stand a chance in the rest of the world.

For the system to provide a solution it must be feasible and obtainable. If any system of government fails that test we should discard it and look for something else.

Sure, liberal democracy is not perfect. But as Churchill supposedly once said: "It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except for all the others that have been tried." We should always look for new and better ways of governing ourselves, but I just don't see how an Islamic State can be seen as a feasible alternative.

P.S. what was unfair about the original article is that it compares features of an actual implemented system of government (liberal democracy) with the features of a theoretical, unimplemented, untested ideal-typical system of government (islam). Thats simply an unfair comparison.
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That is so silly. Would you analyse christian rulings by looking at secular governments of 100% christian countries? Islam isn't to be judged by the people who claim to be Muslims. Too many people wear the title of a Muslim, but they don't practice Islam. And Islam isn't theoretical. Shari'ah was implemented for a very wrong time.
 
^^ I agree, the prophet answered your question too he said 'There will be a khilafah rashidah (righteous) after me, and then a successive tightyly held monarchy, and then a tyranny (our era perhaps?) and then another Khilafah on the path of prophecy'.. somethign along those lines lookup the hadith if ur intersted, and for your information, that's exactly what's been happening..

so that proves not all the rulers where just.

By the way wilberhum and Kading etc.. it's not the system that's not perfect, it's the implementation that's screwed! if you look at Umar's khalifah (which was oen of the most outstanding, as well as his grandson ibn abdulaziz, and the abbasids in spain and others) you'll notice that the implementation was as near as one could get to perfection.

On the other hand, in hajjaj ibn yusuf time, because his implementation was at best cactus (and still yet better than the implementation we see today), doesn't imply anything about the legal system that they where suppose to be running.
 
KAding said:
Not just his ignorance apparently, it seems to me thats exactly what the author of the original article is claiming?



Interesting. I often hear many saying that there has never been a real Islamic State since the time of Muhammed. Can there be a caliphate without there being an Islamic State? Do you consider all Caliphs since Abu Bakr to be true successors of the Prophet?
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you see Caliphate is a political system that implements Islam, as such it has certain structures such as a shura(Council) and an elected caliph (voted by a specific way), and they try to join all the Muslim lands together and in most cases did but that’s not a requirement more of a duty of that state

All the caliphates since the Prophet had that structure but some were more perfect than others depending on their leaders but that dosnt invalidate them as a caliphate at all unless they go totally against Islam

wilberhum said:
That is not what I see being said. I always see someone talking about there perfect system.
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Gods laws are perfect but humans are not.
 
it's not the system that's not perfect, it's the implementation that's screwed!
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That is exactly how I feel about democracy.
some (Caliphate ) were more perfect than others depending
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Or Bush is not as perfect as other presidents.
Gods laws are perfect but humans are not.
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That would be true. But thinking that you have them is only a article of faith.
 
Umm_Shaheed said:
That is true, mashaAllah. I did make du'a for him. If his martyrdom is accepted, then he truly is the luckiest man in the world.
W'salaam
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Such a spirit will never go to waste and the only dispute in Sharia that might have threatened his martyrdom, was avoided. No one on Earth can tell me he isn't in Heaven... and God knows in Heaven how much he is being missed here on Earth! All I can do now is look after his wives and children.

zarqawi_portrait-1.jpg


Ninth Scribe
 
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