Imam receives death threats for preaching evolution

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Nice, we have this whole thread without the OP being aware of what he actually said, and without a word of his regarding evolution being quoted.

Knowledge regained​

In contrast to their forebears, modern Muslims have a childlike view of science, especially evolution. This needs to change

o Usama Hasan
o guardian.co.uk, Thursday 11 September 2008 13.30 BST
o Article history

Professor Richard Dawkins recently said that most Muslims were creationists, and their children are taught that the theory of evolution is wrong, which causes a huge problem in schools.

He's largely correct, and the Muslim world desperately needs to debate the matter properly without fear, since science can neither prove nor disprove God. Whereas the Christian world, where Charles Darwin first proposed his thesis, has had a century and a half to come to terms with the theory of evolution, it has only begun to be taught rather recently in the Muslim world, where faith and religious practice is still relatively strong.

No wonder then that the theory is opposed by some religious elements, especially those that are ignorant of science. Snazzy websites, videos and books produced by fundamentalist Muslim "creationists" such as those at www.harunyahya.com, are obscuring clear scientific thinking.

Creation or evolution? Many believers in God have no problem with an obvious solution: that God created man via evolution. Here is some explanation of this view from a Muslim perspective.
I have a background in physical sciences, not biological ones, but there are parallels. Just as we can see clear evidence for the fact that planets, stars and galaxies evolved very gradually over the last 13 billion years since the big bang and weren't just beamed into existence by God, it would seem intuitive that life in its breathtaking variety on Earth also arose through a gradual evolutionary processes. There are plenty of Muslim biologists who have no doubt about the essential correctness of evolutionary theory.

The Qur'an teaches that humanity began with Adam, whose wife Eve was made "of like nature". The raw materials from which Adam was created are variously described as dust, clay and water, ie a mixture of water and minerals found on earth and in its soil. God completed the creation of Adam, breathed his spirit into him and taught him the names of everything. Since the angels were ignorant of these names, he commanded them to bow down to Adam, to symbolise human superiority over angels due to our free will, intelligence, capacity to understand and express ourselves in eloquent language.

One problem is that many Muslims retain the simple picture that God created Adam from clay, much as a potter makes a statue, and then breathed into the lifeless statue and lo! it became a living human. This is a children's madrasa-level understanding and Muslims really have to move on as adults and intellectuals, especially given the very serious scientific heritage of the medieval Islamic civilisation.

Another objection that is sometimes posed is the following: doesn't evolution denigrate and insult all humans, but especially the prophets of God, by insisting that we all originate from apes? I reply that the theory doesn't insult anyone, but does remind us of the humble origins of our created form. This is nothing new or blasphemous, since numerous Qur'anic verses remind us that we are all created from "dust" via sexual discharges: "despised drops of water". Those verses clearly do not insult the prophets. Meanwhile, our spiritual form remains the most exalted, since it is from the spirit of God breathed into Adam: we exist for the most noble purpose of knowing and loving God, freely and after having been given a choice.

Another irony in this whole debate is that several medieval Islamic thinkers had ideas that were broadly similar to the theory of evolution. The 10th-century Persian philosopher Ibn Miskawayh may have had ideas about the natural world that were, broadly speaking, evolutionist. The 14th-century philosopher Ibn Khaldun wrote:

One should then look at the world of creation. It started out from the minerals and progressed, in an ingenious, gradual manner, to plants and animals.

Although Ibn Khaldun wasn't speaking directly about evolution in the modern sense, I don't think he would have had a major problem with Darwin's theory, judging from the passage above. But it is precisely the loss of the heritage of people like Ibn Khaldun that has led to the current, appalling state of science in the Muslim world and the Muslim consciousness.

Source

HOWEVER

With the Name of Allah, All-Merciful, Most Merciful

A FURTHER CLARIFICATION & RETRACTION


Further to my detailed statement dated 15th February 2011 about evolution and
veiling (hijab), I would like to state, after reflecting on the matter and
listening to the advice of others:

1. I regret and retract some of my statements in the past about the theory of
evolution, especially the inflammatory ones.

2. I do not believe that Adam, peace be upon him, had parents.

3. I seek Allah's forgiveness for my mistakes and apologise to others for any
offence caused.

Usama Hasan
London, Friday 4th March 2011

Source

So:
1. No, his former beliefs as stated above are not normal within Islam.
2. No, making death threats against someone is also not normal within Islam.
3. He has sought forgiveness from Allah, so his matter is now with Allah.

May Allah guide us all.

:sl:
 
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Please explain more, Vale's Lily.

Just a way to secularize Muslims using their place of worship -- People don't and shouldn't learn of esoteric branches of science in their place of worship & when done should be so done by experts in the field and not under intellectual hijack .. Yeah I wanna be progressive and smart to fit into a status quo and not because any scientific understanding was borne of it.. According to suret Al-Kahf Allah swt hasn't made us a witness to the creation of heavens and earth & we haven't decoded such secrets.. so people really ought to quit behaving as if they do!~

all the best
 


Nice, we have this whole thread without the OP being aware of what he actually said, and without a word of his regarding evolution being quoted.


No reply to my question to you.

I would think that this is stating the obvious, but any OP in this section of the forum usually doesn't have all the facts and answers which is why they are seeking help and clarification. My thanks to you for your post.

It seems to me that the news report published in the Evening Standard this week is correct but doesn't give all of the facts. The general public (I do not include myself) regard anyone who does not accept evolution as a crank, woefully ignorant, fanatical and rather stupid. Hence the news report gives the impression that Islam keeps people in ignorance and that Islamic authorities and extremists are seeking to keep it that way, even resorting to death threats.

A great many Muslims however (every single one that I have spoken to anyway), do accept evolution in some form. So the news report appears to me to be unfair.


Having said all that, I will just mention that I am a Jehovah's Witness and we emphatically do not believe in evolution in any form.
 
I will just mention that I am a Jehovah's Witness and we emphatically do not believe in evolution in any form.

Thank you for clarifying your beliefs Hiroshi.

With regards to animals, my own personal belief is that "Allah has created every [living] creature from water. And of them are those that move on their bellies, and of them are those that walk on two legs, and of them are those that walk on four. Allah creates what He wills. Indeed, Allah is over all things competent." (24:45)

Beyond that, we are told not to talk concerning that of which we have no knowledge, which I, personally, do not. "...why do you argue about that of which you have no knowledge?.." (3:66, part)

So all I can say is that Allah knows best as to the processes, but I believe that He personally created every living thing. The process involved I do not know.

And Allah knows best.

Peace.
 
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With regards to animals, my own personal belief is that "Allah has created every [living] creature from water." (24:45)


Thanks for the reply. Is this "water" to be understood as meaning the semen which carries the seed of the parent or does it mean literally just water?


I have just noticed a footnote to Surah 21:30 ("We made from water every living thing") in Yusuf Ali's translation that says (in part): "That all life began in water is also a conclusion to which our latest knowledge in biological science points ... there is the fact that land animals, like the higher vertebrates, including man, show, in their embryological history, organs like those of fishes, indicating the watery origin of their original habitat."

These statements in his footnote are only the conclusion of the evolution theory, however. They are not in agreement with creation. And, yes I know, I have been told many times that Yusuf Ali's comments are not authoritative. Maybe he should be branded an apostate also for seeming to suggest that Adam was descended from fishes!
 
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^why do you keep changing the theme of this thread :hmm: are you bored or something :hmm:
 
:sl:

People who say that islam has no problem with evolution that is wrong since when did apes become humans in islam. As a matter of fact there are numerous places in the Quran which Allah is relating the story of Adam and ibliis. We as muslims believe that Adam was first human being who was created so we shud abide by that rule and these theories shud not come into our Aqeedah.


:w:
 
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:sl:

People who say that islam has no problem with evolution that is wrong since when did apes become humans in islam.

:w:

For that reason, Muslims reject human evolution. But many Muslims nevertheless accept animal evolution.
 
For that reason, Muslims reject human evolution. But many Muslims nevertheless accept animal evolution.

There is nothing to accept or reject.. it isn't an exact science, in fact it isn't a science at all, it goes more in the realm of science fiction.. the only place where this is truly applicable is to viruses, but then viruses aren't considered living organisms since they need a host to replicate!

all the best
 
Is this "water" to be understood as meaning the semen which carries the seed of the parent or does it mean literally just water?

Most translate it as literally just water, because the Arabic word for water (maa') is used on it's own without any qualifying word.

In contrast 32:8 uses the word maa' with the word maheen, i.e. maa'in maheen, and this is translated as a despised fluid or liquid disdained (i.e. semen).

Pickthall
"Then He made his seed from a draught of despised fluid." (32:8)

And Allah knows best.

Peace.
 
τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ;1418617 said:


There is nothing to accept or reject.. it isn't an exact science, in fact it isn't a science at all, it goes more in the realm of science fiction..

all the best

I couldn't agree more.
 


Most translate it as literally just water, because the Arabic word for water (maa') is used on it's own without any qualifying word.

In contrast 32:8 uses the word maa' with the word maheen, i.e. maa'in maheen, and this is translated as a despised fluid or liquid disdained (i.e. semen).

Pickthall
"Then He made his seed from a draught of despised fluid." (32:8)

And Allah knows best.

Peace.



Thanks for explaining.
 
Not surprised. Usama Hasan is not a biologist, yet he believes what the biologists have to say. And it seems he is convinced by the "evidence of evolution" that does exist. Seems the caliber of evidence required to convince Usama is pretty subclass. I wonder what his father feels about his son: son gone astray? perhaps, who knows.

As the Muslim world prospers economically and financially, and most importantly educationally, the number of ex-Muslim atheists (who happen to be quite educated) will increase. Sort of a scary phenomenon. What's scarier is the authority these atheists will assume in the realm of politics and such. That does seem to be quite an issue for the upcoming generations of humans in Pakistan. There are atheists living in Saudi Arabia (what I naively used to think the Islamic homeland) right now. Seems disbelief in God is as spread across humanity, across all religions and people of all color, as homosexuality is. I just continue to pray that there are no underlying genetic causes for these modes of thinking.

From personal experience, the alarming rate of emergence of atheists among educated Pakistanis did shock me few years ago but it was for my own benefit as it allowed me to read up on it. Recently, a US-educated medical doctor, whom I used to respect a lot for his experience and service in Karachi (Pakistan), told me that hes a "hard boiled egg and an atheist." He used to be quite religious in his prime, memorized parts of Quran, used to partake in religious service. I am not too sure now what to make of my previous emotions about him but it does seem to confirm my previous views regarding atheism in Muslim countries.

I am sure Turkey has something similar or something worse.

And I wonder why is Nature so interested in educational system reform of Pakistan regarding the preaching of evolution and what not. Seems to be an effort by the movers and shakers of scientific research (atheists) to influence the Muslim world. Maybe the works of dajjal. Here is the link to the published study. http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v461/n7260/full/461038a.html

There is this MIT educated atheist "genius" physicist in Pakistan Dr. Pervez Hoodhboy, whose been a leading voice in Pakistan and abroad in this regards. He self-proclaims to be a messiah who has arisen to unveil the religious orthodoxy of Islam and how it has been against science quoting examples of Umar bin alKhattab (ra) in which he apparently throws away books of a conquered nation into the waters.
his article for those interested: http://ptonline.aip.org/journals/doc/PHTOAD-ft/vol_60/iss_8/49_1.shtml?bypassSSO=1

criticism of his book: http://www.islamicperspectives.com/ReviewPervezHoodbhoy.htm

Why are they becoming atheist? Why did that medical become atheist?
 
τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ;1418205 said:

the only thing I wanted to comment on was this 'traditional vs. modern' shbeal.. like extremist vs. moderate shbeal.. it is getting tired.. like you either have to be 'modernist' and accept that rocks sprung wings, sprung legs, sprung lungs sprung monkeys, sprung humans or you're a backward traditionalist.. I haven't seen any sane verifiable data based science enter the foyer .. just more meaningless words and alot of hoopla in the background.
I am a scientist, I hold a doctorate and have worked in research I have papers published (I Know how papers get published) I know that I can take the same set of data that I used to prove one thing to prove its exact opposite in a different period of time.. but even here we're not speaking of statistics and palpable variables we're speaking of unverifiable crap.. People don't even specify whether it is macro or micro-evolution they're speaking of before preaching crap or before feeling persecuted for preaching crap.. all they need to do is but spew and divide into categories.. it is baseless and pathetic!

:w:

Thank you so much, truer words were never spoken :) I have changed my mind about evolution; I think it exists but (obviously) has little to do with the atheist or Darwinist view... (don't tell Adnan Oktar though or else he might consider you a kafir)

:w:
 
Yes, but I thought that Muslims, in general, accepted evolution. Now suddenly there are these outspoken ones who show that they do not. The issue must be over human evolution, not animal evolution.
I don't know about other countries but in Turkey there are Islamic scholars who don't even object to the idea of human evolution. They claim that Hz. Adam was the first human with a soul and not necessarily the first "human". Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I agree with them. I have to read and learn way more to form an opinion. Even then it will remain pure speculation since Allah knows best...

:w:
 
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assala mu aliqum brother and sister .

I don't have much knowledge about Darwin's theory of evolution . But I have one prove that Darwin him self saying his theory does not carry any weight . the prove is :-

Darwin's Letter to his friend, Thomas Thompton
Darwin's Letter to his friend, Thomas Thompton, 1861: “ I believe in the theory of evolution, not because I have proof, but because it helps me in classification, Morphology, Embryology, and rudimentary organs..."
 
I don't know about other countries but in Turkey there are Islamic scholars who don't even object to the idea of human evolution. They claim that Hz. Adam was the first human with a soul and not necessarily the first "human". Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I agree with them. I have to read and learn way more to form an opinion. Even then it will remain pure speculation since Allah knows best...

:w:

Thank you Argamemnon. It seems then that there may be a wide range of different opinions on evolution within Islam. But I don't understand how these Islamic scholars can believe in human evolution (presumably based on fossil evidence on earth) when, according to Islam, Adam is supposed to have originated, not on earth but in heaven.
 

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