Interesting video regarding Hijab.

[Thinker]

do you know what makes your "anti-Islam campaigns" so hilarious! its the fact that you think the Quran and sunnah should be his way or the highway and then come and tries convincing Muslims that their religion is all wrong, basically state that our scholars have no idea and in the process make it sound as if you are one yourself, have no idea how an Islamic ruling is derived heck even a Muslim layman doesn't! and to put the icing on the cake, you're not even a Muslim yourself! quite a show, don't you think?

Regarding the questionable hadith you posted . . . . .Ali bin Abi Talhah reported that Ibn `Abbas said . . . .

Can you tell me is this hadith, sahih, hasan or daif?


I asked . . . . if he made this revelation to Muhammad why isn’t it a verse in the Qur’an and why didn’t Muhammad have his wives cover everything but one eye.

You replied . . . . [Probably because what I posted was an intepretion of one of the verses concerning the hijab. Not the revelation its self.

Would you show me the verse you speak of?



You have reverted back to issuing insults. You have accused me of lacking integrity yet refused to show any evidence supporting the accusation, now you accuse me a carrying out an ‘anti-Islamic campaign’ and of ‘trying to convince Muslims that there religion is wrong’. Making defamatory accusations without producing any evidence shows, I suggest, a lack of integrity on your part. Are you suggesting that because I don’t accept Islamic text without question I am anti-Islamic? Is it because, in this thread you have failed to adequately answer the questions that you accuse me of ‘trying to convince Muslims that there religion is wrong’. Are you suggesting that because I am not Muslim I am not entitled to ask questions in my attempt to understand why Muslims say and do what they say? There is a suggested 2 million Muslims living in my homeland and a belief that learning about each other will lead to greater understanding an tolerance, I believe that alone entitles me to ask questions and give opinion.

 

[Ummu Sufyaan]

Regarding the questionable hadith you posted . . . . .Ali bin Abi Talhah reported that Ibn `Abbas said . . . .

Can you tell me is this hadith, sahih, hasan or daif?

nope, because it aint a hadith, its interpretation

I asked . . . . if he made this revelation to Muhammad why isn’t it a verse in the Qur’an and why didn’t Muhammad have his wives cover everything but one eye.

You replied . . . . [Probably because what I posted was an intepretion of one of the verses concerning the hijab. Not the revelation its self.

Would you show me the verse you speak of?

33: 59

You have reverted back to issuing insults. You have accused me of lacking integrity yet refused to show any evidence supporting the accusation, now you accuse me a carrying out an ‘anti-Islamic campaign’ and of ‘trying to convince Muslims that there religion is wrong’. Making defamatory accusations without producing any evidence shows, I suggest, a lack of integrity on your part. Are you suggesting that because I don’t accept Islamic text without question I am anti-Islamic? Is it because, in this thread you have failed to adequately answer the questions that you accuse me of ‘trying to convince Muslims that there religion is wrong’. Are you suggesting that because I am not Muslim I am not entitled to ask questions in my attempt to understand why Muslims say and do what they say? There is a suggested 2 million Muslims living in my homeland and a belief that learning about each other will lead to greater understanding an tolerance, I believe that alone entitles me to ask questions and give opinion.

whatever makes you sleep at night.


@thread starter: barakallahu feek, interesting vids. although if i were in the shoes of the sister in the first vid, id set up shop next door to them, compete with them, steal all their customers and kill their business off!

 

[أبو سليمان عمر]

edit

 

[Thinker]

Regarding the questionable hadith you posted . . . . .Ali bin Abi Talhah reported that Ibn `Abbas said . . . .

I asked . . . . if he made this revelation to Muhammad why isn’t it a verse in the Qur’an and why didn’t Muhammad have his wives cover everything but one eye.
You replied . . . . Probably because what I posted was an interpretation of one of the verses concerning the hijab. Not the revelation its self.

I asked . . Would you show me the verse you speak of?

You replied 33:59

Here is the Sisters in Islam’s interpretation

O Prophet! Tell thy wives and thy daughters, as well as all (other) believing women, that they should draw over themselves some of their outer garments (when in public): this will be more conducive to their being recognized (as decent women) and not annoyed. But (withal,) God is indeed much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace! (al-Ahzab 33:59, Asad transl.)

The spirit of this ayat, is to dress in a manner that will signal 'unavailability'.

The context of this verse, it has been suggested, is that some of the hypocrites were molesting women in the street and they argued that they had thought the women were slaves and thus 'molestable'. Consequently, Muslim women were to dress to distinguish themselves as modest and chaste and not 'molestable'. Now obviously it would be a much better (and more Islamic) society to raise men not to molest women, than to allow men to consider molesting unveiled women permissible. One could argue that this command is context and time specific, and as such, dress is used as a marker of Muslim identity and not necessarily an indicator of the moral status of the woman herself.

http://www.sistersinislam.org.my/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=585&Itemid=178

 

[syilla]

Here is the Sisters in Islam’s interpretation

O Prophet! Tell thy wives and thy daughters, as well as all (other) believing women, that they should draw over themselves some of their outer garments (when in public): this will be more conducive to their being recognized (as decent women) and not annoyed. But (withal,) God is indeed much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace! (al-Ahzab 33:59, Asad transl.)

The spirit of this ayat, is to dress in a manner that will signal 'unavailability'.

The context of this verse, it has been suggested, is that some of the hypocrites were molesting women in the street and they argued that they had thought the women were slaves and thus 'molestable'. Consequently, Muslim women were to dress to distinguish themselves as modest and chaste and not 'molestable'. Now obviously it would be a much better (and more Islamic) society to raise men not to molest women, than to allow men to consider molesting unveiled women permissible. One could argue that this command is context and time specific, and as such, dress is used as a marker of Muslim identity and not necessarily an indicator of the moral status of the woman herself.

http://www.sistersinislam.org.my/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=585&Itemid=178

Thinker!!!! before you copy paste anything... you should know that... sisters in islam fatwa....is not acceptable to most practise malaysian muslims. Most of them are daughters of political leader... And of course they don't refer to the scholars

:uuh:

 

[burdenofbeing]

I agree that men should be raised such. when my wife and I went to umrah, even a hijab didn't do much to order respect for my wife. she had to also wear a veil.

 

[Thinker]

Thinker!!!! before you copy paste anything... you should know that... sisters in islam fatwa....is not acceptable to most practise malaysian muslims. Most of them are daughters of political leader... And of course they don't refer to the scholars

:uuh:

Thank you for the information. There are so many ‘scholars,’ groups and other sources of information and no universally recognised rating (that I know of) of who is more reliable than whom.

You use the word fatwa, I presumed what was written was their interpretation, we all read and look at evidence and interpret what we see, how does one differentiate between someone’s interpretation and a fatwa and whose fatwa carries greater authority.

 

[Ummu Sufyaan]

Here is the Sisters in Islam’s interpretation

O Prophet! Tell thy wives and thy daughters, as well as all (other) believing women, that they should draw over themselves some of their outer garments (when in public): this will be more conducive to their being recognized (as decent women) and not annoyed. But (withal,) God is indeed much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace! (al-Ahzab 33:59, Asad transl.)

The spirit of this ayat, is to dress in a manner that will signal 'unavailability'.

The context of this verse, it has been suggested, is that some of the hypocrites were molesting women in the street and they argued that they had thought the women were slaves and thus 'molestable'. Consequently, Muslim women were to dress to distinguish themselves as modest and chaste and not 'molestable'. Now obviously it would be a much better (and more Islamic) society to raise men not to molest women, than to allow men to consider molesting unveiled women permissible. One could argue that this command is context and time specific, and as such, dress is used as a marker of Muslim identity and not necessarily an indicator of the moral status of the woman herself.

http://www.sistersinislam.org.my/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=585&Itemid=178

the only thing i seem to see in that, is a poor excuse that the hijab shouldn't be worn in this day and age. rubbish!

and even if it were true, again it is still rubbish because the whole molestation thingee that was referred to, occurs in this day and age as well, even with strict laws. perhaps not physically, but you still get sicko pervs out there.. at the end of the day, its the girl that will get the bad end of the stick,
you do raise men not to molest women, its practically natural in people whether Muslim or not. A form of it may be lowering your gaze, etc. but inherent in the male, is his attraction to physicall beauty, and since we are trying to avoid her getting the bad end of the stick,-and god knows that he dont look at her cos he cares for her- we tell her to cover up, because being the visual critter that he is, it is almost inevitable that his gaze will slip.

You use the word fatwa, I presumed what was written was their interpretation, we all read and look at evidence and interpret what we see, how does one differentiate between someone’s interpretation and a fatwa and whose fatwa carries greater authority.

firstly, because allah says: so ask those who know if you don't know. "those who know" refers to the people of knowledge.

that and the fact that one has to study under teachers-just like any other subject. i mean you dont really qualify to be a Doc of you haven't gone to uni, etc. same applies with being an Islamic scholar- i,e you study under teachers.

secondly, you really cant compare the laymen to a scholar can you now? really, logically it isn't even acceptable, let alone realistically. i mean you can tell the difference without extensive research. its just known amoung the people who is a scholar and who isnt. like a preist compared to an ordinary chirstian.

 

[Ummu Sufyaan]

I agree that men should be raised such. when my wife and I went to umrah, even a hijab didn't do much to order respect for my wife. she had to also wear a veil.

they are---> lowering his gaze.

 

[burdenofbeing]

well, yes but they obviously aren't

 

[Ummu Sufyaan]

but whats that got to do with the hijab being not suitable for this day and age cos apparently men arent taught not to molest? (as stated in the article)...
its taught, even if it doesn't occur, hence the hijab still stays on.

 

[burdenofbeing]

I'm not saying it shouldn't. and even if I did, it doesn't matter, as it is obviously ordered in qur'an.

 

[Thinker]

I'm not saying it shouldn't. and even if I did, it doesn't matter, as it is obviously ordered in qur'an.

"obviously!" - there's that word again

 

[burdenofbeing]

Why I think so? it's back there in this thread.

 

[Najm]

"obviously!" - there's that word again

Peace!

Its obvious to those who are willing to understand. Its more easier to accept for those who have Taqwa!


Peace

 

[أبو سليمان عمر]

lol you all still entertain this guy Summun bukmun AAumyun fahum la yarjiAAoona i mean after 8 pages of explain anyone should understand. Anyhow you all hav fun

 

[idk]

Okay basically I am a muslim girl who doesnt wear hijab only because before I was physically abused into wearing it, and not because I dont believe in it. I want to wear it, inshallah in this year, but i want it to come from within, because i never experienced that sense of wearing it with your head held high.

Thinker, you are male, i presume, and the very fact your are arguing for females to take off their hijab is actually sexist. Has it ever come to you that these girls are comfortable wearing hijab, the same way some girls are comfortable in a bikini. No matter how much you try to tame a lion, it will always be a lion, it will always hunger for meat. You are a male, and no matter how civilized you make out you are, deep down you are a man, and there is no denying you would love to see a world full of girls bearing all. This applies to all males, btw. So, basically, a girl in a veil would not get wolf whistles, would not get touched by strangers ( dont deny that this happens, i see it every day ), would not get harassed. When a girl in a headscarf comes down the street, a man instinctively moves to let her pass. You are reluctant to touch such a respectable girl. And, if by accident, you do, you apologize genuinely. You just cant help it. But if a girl comes by in shorts, a man will most probably give her the once over and then shout out a few things. Does this not occur to you men as sexist? Yes, of course some girls like it, but that does not excuse the fact that you are treating the woman the way a hungry dog treats a plate of meat.


And of course the hair is a part of the beauty. Why else do boys love it when a girl flicks her hair around? Why else do people constantly fuss about wether their hair looks good ? Why else do people spend hundreds to make it look good?


And, by the way, by trying to prove yourself right, you have accidently proved yourself wrong.
The truth will always shine through

 

[Ummu Sufyaan]

Okay basically I am a muslim girl who doesnt wear hijab only because before I was physically abused into wearing it, and not because I dont believe in it.
I want to wear it, inshallah in this year, but i want it to come from within, because i never experienced that sense of wearing it with your head held high.

see, i grew up with that whole "girls are inferior" bs mentality (for a completely different reason) but you know what? i figured why should i let those who see me as something inferior get the better of me and ruin Islams reputation for me. i know that what Islam legislates is good, and no matter who or what teaches me otherwise these same people will not kill my chances of paradise for me they can go down, but they aint dragging me down with them
so yh...dont worry what people do, cos what they do to you and how you react are two different things...don't let them be your reasons for disobeying allah...cos if thats how they treat you, be better than them in the sight of Allah and dont sink to their level by committing sins because of them

all the best

Thinker, you are male, i presume, and the very fact your are arguing for females to take off their hijab is actually sexist. Has it ever come to you that these girls are comfortable wearing hijab, the same way some girls are comfortable in a bikini. No matter how much you try to tame a lion, it will always be a lion, it will always hunger for meat. You are a male, and no matter how civilized you make out you are, deep down you are a man, and there is no denying you would love to see a world full of girls bearing all. This applies to all males, btw. So, basically, a girl in a veil would not get wolf whistles, would not get touched by strangers ( dont deny that this happens, i see it every day ), would not get harassed. When a girl in a headscarf comes down the street, a man instinctively moves to let her pass. You are reluctant to touch such a respectable girl. And, if by accident, you do, you apologize genuinely. You just cant help it. But if a girl comes by in shorts, a man will most probably give her the once over and then shout out a few things. Does this not occur to you men as sexist? Yes, of course some girls like it, but that does not excuse the fact that you are treating the woman the way a hungry dog treats a plate of meat.


And of course the hair is a part of the beauty. Why else do boys love it when a girl flicks her hair around? Why else do people constantly fuss about wether their hair looks good ? Why else do people spend hundreds to make it look good?


And, by the way, by trying to prove yourself right, you have accidently proved yourself wrong.
The truth will always shine through

mashallah! loved that sis :statisfie

 

[syilla]

Thank you for the information. There are so many ‘scholars,’ groups and other sources of information and no universally recognised rating (that I know of) of who is more reliable than whom.

You use the word fatwa, I presumed what was written was their interpretation, we all read and look at evidence and interpret what we see, how does one differentiate between someone’s interpretation and a fatwa and whose fatwa carries greater authority.

there are ratings...and probably you can ask the muslims around

 

[Thinker]

Thinker, you are male, i presume, and the very fact your are arguing for females to take off their hijab is actually sexist.

Re-read my posts, none of my posts have argued for anyone to take of their hijab. I have argued for truth and have suggested hypocrisy. If anything I have argued that, if you believe the interpretations of the hadith quoted here, the Muslimah should cover her face including her eyes. And I have argued that because there is no agreed Islamic text which specifically defines hair as the principal feature of beauty the hijab is not worn to cover beauty and promote modesty it is worn to comply with requirement to be different from non-believers . . . .

Her clothing must not resemble the clothing of the unbelievers. This is a general ruling of the ‘Sharia’h which ‎encompasses not only dress but also such things as manners, customs, religious practices and festivities, transactions, ‎etc. Indeed, dissimilarity with unbelievers is a precedent that was established by the first generation of Islam.
‘Abdullah ‎ibn ‘Amr ibn Al-’Aas said, “The Prophet (saw) saw me wearing two saffron colored garments, so he said: ‎‎“Indeed, these are the clothes of ‘Kuffar’ (unbelievers), so do not wear them.” [Sahih Muslim]‎

This thread started with a video and a woman being interviewed giving reasons why she wore the hijab and later posts suggesting it was to comply with Sura 24:31. I have argued as above and 8 pages later NOBODY has produced anything to counter my argument. You (all) have been brainwashed into believing that covering your hair is what is required to comply with 24:31. My argument is measured and logical, you don’t like my argument and because you can’t produce anything to counter it you get angry with me and start issuing insults calling me anti-Islamic etc.

PS. When I use the word ‘you,’ here I don’t mean you in particular I mean all of those who posted here telling me that wearing the hijab was to comply with 24:31