Interesting video regarding Hijab.

[Thinker]

i didnt say it did! their beauty, obviously includes their hair, otherwise no need to cover it.

Use of the word 'obviously' comes when you have no evidence to argue with!

 

[Ummu Sufyaan]

comments like that come only when evidence is denied!

Listing so called 'scholars' who say it is obligatory isn't good enough (for me) as I am sure there are scholars who would disagree.

yes, key word: for you

 

[Thinker]

Is not 24:31 adequate?

With respect - NO.

And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or the slaves whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O ye Believers! turn ye all together towards Allah, that ye may attain Bliss

The key phrases/words in 24:31 are:

lower their gaze
guard their modesty;
not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear
draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their thereof;
not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments.

To comply with that one must define:
Modesty
Which feature(s) define a woman’s beauty
Ordinarily appear
Ornaments.

In defining the above your ‘scholars’ have somehow concluded that hair is the principal feature which defines a woman’s beauty and displaying it would be immodest. I can find nothing in Islamic text that picks out hair as the principal feature of a woman’s beauty and that displaying hair is immodest but I am not a scholar so I ask here on this forum for someone to show me the evidence.

Some things that do seem obvious is Muslim women shouldn’t wear makeup or jewellery and I see lots of Muslim women wearing the hijab and lipstick etc.

 

[Ummu Sufyaan]

Could they not wear sunglasses?

oh yes, that would have been convenient 1400 years ago!

 

[Cabdullahi]

their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms . . . Yusuf Ali

Define apparent?

Could they not wear sunglasses?

there was no sunglasses my dear it was 1400 years ago.......I agree with you that eyes are considered a beauty but when your suggesting blind folds and sun glasses it just shows that a human being knows nothing but allah knows better....

The first and foremost thing is that the hijab is an act of obedience more than anything else and by carrying out this act, alot of vital bonuses come along with it.......its a protection, purification and etc.

Now regarding the minimizing of the beauty ornaments,the hijab is perfect because it reduces beauty efficiently without causing a restriction to the woman, no blind folds..... no zorro mask

O Prophet! Tell thy wives and daughters and the believing women that they should cast their outer garments over their persons when abroad that is convenient (33:59)

you the great thinker offered that blind folds or sun glasses would be used but is that convenient? ask yourself my dear

but why must they wear it......here is the answer

that they should be known and as such not molested. And God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful." (33:59)

 

[Thinker]

Sunglasses - oh yes, that would have been convenient 1400 years ago!

1400 years ago they wore a shawl which they could draw over their faces and of course they would lower their gaze possibly because the eyes are the principal feature of beauty

 

[Thinker]

The first and foremost thing is that the hijab is an act of obedience more than anything else and by carrying out this act, alot of vital bonuses come along with it.......its a protection, purification and etc.

Obedience to whom? In all of God's revelations to Muhammad never once did He suggest hair should be covered and Muhammad did not ask his wives to wear a covering that totally encased the head and neck exposing just the face (as the modern day western style hijab does). God asked for modesty, displaying hair is not immodest. Without evidence to the contrary I must conclude that it is an act of obedience but that they are not obeying 24:31 they are obeying the hadith that commands that Muslim men and women must wear clothing that defines them as Muslim.

Her clothing must not resemble the clothing of the unbelievers. This is a general ruling of the ‘Sharia’h which ‎encompasses not only dress but also such things as manners, customs, religious practices and festivities, transactions, ‎etc. Indeed, dissimilarity with unbelievers is a precedent that was established by the first generation of Islam.
‘Abdullah ‎ibn ‘Amr ibn Al-’Aas said, “The Prophet (saw) saw me wearing two saffron colored garments, so he said: ‎‎“Indeed, these are the clothes of ‘Kuffar’ (unbelievers), so do not wear them.” [Sahih Muslim]‎

 

[Thinker]

I sent of some email to manufacturers / sellers of hijab asking where the current style originated, here is one reply:

As Salamu ALaykum

Difficult question but As I am living in Egypt 25 years ago there were only the square hijab style which folded as a triangle and put on head.
As many women started to wear hijab during the past years we started learning from the gulf women the way they wrap hijab which is a rectangular shape, and as time passed and women always even when wearing hijab wanted to look beautiful they started making many different styles of hijab colours styles and wraps.
Most wraps and styles do not comply with Muslim dress code

Regards

She seems to be describing the current style of hijab is an adornment!

 

[Ummu Sufyaan]

1400 years ago they wore a shawl which they could draw over their faces and of course they would lower their gaze possibly because the eyes are the principal feature of beauty

or maybe because the eyes are the "windows" to the soul? :-/ i.e if a guy/girl let thier gazes "wonder" it'll lead to other forbidden acts.


and since you asked for it:

Al-Jawhari said: "The Jilbab is the outer wrapper. `Ali bin Abi Talhah reported that Ibn `Abbas said that Allah commanded the believing women, when they went out of their houses for some need, to cover their faces from above their heads with the Jilbab, leaving only one eye showing. Muhammad bin Sirin said, "I asked `Ubaydah As-Salmani about the Ayah:

[يُدْنِينَ عَلَيْهِنَّ مِن جَلَـبِيبِهِنَّ]

(to draw their Jalabib over their bodies.) He covered his face and head, with just his left eye showing.''

happy now?

I sent of some email to manufacturers / sellers of hijab asking where the current style originated, here is one reply:

As Salamu ALaykum

Difficult question but As I am living in Egypt 25 years ago there were only the square hijab style which folded as a triangle and put on head.
As many women started to wear hijab during the past years we started learning from the gulf women the way they wrap hijab which is a rectangular shape, and as time passed and women always even when wearing hijab wanted to look beautiful they started making many different styles of hijab colours styles and wraps.
Most wraps and styles do not comply with Muslim dress code

Regards

She seems to be describing the current style of hijab is an adornment!

but she also said:

Most wraps and styles do not comply with Muslim dress code

 

[Thinker]

Ali bin Abi Talhah reported that Ibn `Abbas said that Allah commanded the believing women, when they went out of their houses for some need, to cover their faces from above their heads with the Jilbab, leaving only one eye showing. Muhammad bin Sirin said,
:

Ali bin Abi Talhah reported that Ibn `Abbas said . . . . is that the best you can do, who is Ali bin Abi Talhah he is not in my hadith database? And he said that Allah commanded the believing women – no he didn’t Allah never commanded any woman, Allah made revelation to Muhammad. So if he made this revelation to Muhammad why isn’t it a verse in the Qur’an and why didn’t Muhammad have his wives cover everything but one eye. Everything but one eye!! Come on, surely you can do better than that!!

 

[burdenofbeing]

one question, if in the country or culture the muslims live in hair is what must ordinarily appear, is it still not permissable to remove the scarf?

 

[Najm]

one question, if in the country or culture the muslims live in hair is what must ordinarily appear, is it still not permissable to remove the scarf?

AsSalamOAlaikum WaRehmatuAllah WaBarkatuhu
This is where things go wrong, translations, definitions, our understanding etc etc.....

"Ordinarily appear" in our english language means what is normal to society i.e. what everyone does. Thats our thinking. But thats not how you read the Quran etc and define things. You have to understand the context, the reason, the time, the objective, what our Prophet (SalAllahu Alayhi WaSalam), what the madhabs say etc etc And if you dont

and we take "our own definition" then...

If one lives somewhere in south spain, where they have nothing on and its normal. What would you consider "Ordinarily appear?" Does this mean its permissble to have nothing on?

Anyways, i was just explaining just in general, nothing personal.

In Islam "Ordinarily appear" has been defined as face and hands.

Ask yourself if one is only allowed to show face and hands, would you be able to see the hair?

Let us not follow what people and culture teaches us, lets follow what ISLAM teaches us

FiAmaaniAllah

 

[Mujahidah4Allah]

is hair wasn't part of beauty then why would one go to the salon get it dyed, straightened/curled etc etc, certain books I've come across have mentioned for example how the male likes the fragrance of the womans hair even ... when a woman sees another man and tends to flick her hair just to attract him... point it i personally see it as an attraction which is different to keeping ones hair in a reasonable condition...

wa/salam

 

[Tony]

Peace....

Bro TKTony, It IS an obligation to wear the hijab!

"...that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (ordinarily) appear thereof..." (24:31)

Scholars from the major legal schools (madhahib)
Imam Abu Bakr Jassas, Hanafi scholar: "Our scholars say that this [exemption] denotes the woman's face and hands"


Imam Abu Abdullah Qurtubi, Maliki scholar: "Since the normal case is that a womanï's face and hands are revealed by the force of habit and for worship, as this is required in salat and hajj, then it is appropriate to say that the exemption [in 24:31] applies to these"


Imam Fakhr ad-Din Razi, Shafi'i scholar: "Since the showing of the face and hands is necessary, the jurists had no choice but to agree that they are not awra"


Imam Ahmad ibn Qudama, Hanbali scholar: "[I prefer this opinion] because necessity demands that the face should be uncovered for buying and selling, and the hands should be uncovered for giving and taking"


Imam Abu Muhammad ibn Hazm, Zahiri scholar: "The part of the woman's body which has to be concealed is the whole of it except her face and her hands"

Therefore "Ordinarily appear" means ONLY face and hands......

Ask yourself if one is only allowed to show face and hands, would you be able to see the hair?


Peace...

Many thanks for this, now I can tell Thinker it is something I have been taught. Peace Najm and Thinker

 

[Thinker]

Hi,

Would you show me the verse which defines 'ordinarily appear" as face and hands.

Thanks

 

[Thinker]

is hair wasn't part of beauty then why would one go to the salon get it dyed, straightened/curled etc etc, certain books I've come across have mentioned for example how the male likes the fragrance of the womans hair even ... when a woman sees another man and tends to flick her hair just to attract him... point it i personally see it as an attraction which is different to keeping ones hair in a reasonable condition...

wa/salam

I never said a girls hair wasn't beautiful, I am sure you can have beautiful hair or ugly hair and I am sure hands, feet or any part of a girl could be defined as beautiful or ugly but. So you either cover everything just in case it's beautiful or you identify what is commonly regarded as the principal features of beauty and in that regard I suggest that the context here is the features which might excite men, I suggest hair is not one of them. And, of course beauty is very subjective; it was Shakespeare who coined the phrase “beauty is in the eye of the beholder.” Next we come to ‘dress modestly’ again, I suggest, that displaying hair is not immodest.

 

[Ummu Sufyaan]

Ali bin Abi Talhah reported that Ibn `Abbas said . . . . is that the best you can do, who is Ali bin Abi Talhah he is not in my hadith database?

So? maybe you should add him then.

And he said that Allah commanded the believing women – no he didn’t Allah never commanded any woman, Allah made revelation to Muhammad.

and who do we follow. would you like me to post up some verses?

So if he made this revelation to Muhammad why isn’t it a verse in the Qur’an and why didn’t Muhammad have his wives cover everything but one eye.

Probably because what i posted was an interpretation of one of the verses concerning the hijab. Not the revelation its self.

Everything but one eye!! Come on, surely you can do better than that!!

point being?

I never said a girls hair wasn't beautiful, I am sure you can have beautiful hair or ugly hair and I am sure hands, feet or any part of a girl could be defined as beautiful or ugly but. So you either cover everything just in case it's beautiful or you identify what is commonly regarded as the principal features of beauty and in that regard

OR you just trust that god knows the nature of his own creation

I suggest that the context here is the features which might excite men, I suggest hair is not one of them.

well its time you took a reality check!

And, of course beauty is very subjective; it was Shakespeare who coined the phrase “beauty is in the eye of the beholder.”

thank you! you confirm the virtue of the hijab beautifully.

Hi,
Would you show me the verse which defines 'ordinarily appear" as face and hands.
Thanks

why do you insist on wanting evidence from the quran only. this isn't the only source of Islamic law.

Next we come to ‘dress modestly’ again, I suggest, that displaying hair is not immodest.

do you know what makes your "anti-Islam campaigns" so hilarious! its the fact that you think the Quran and sunnah should be his way or the highway and then come and tries convincing Muslims that their religion is all wrong, basically state that our scholars have no idea and in the process make it sound as if you are one yourself, have no idea how an Islamic ruling is derived heck even a Muslim layman doesn't! and to put the icing on the cake, you're not even a Muslim yourself! quite a show, don't you think?

 

[burdenofbeing]

I believe the key part regarding wearing the hijab is "..they should draw their veils over their bosoms" Veil being part of the contemporary wearing style in arabia is not important. Allah orders by Quran that, what the veil already covers should be extended down to the bosoms. I think it clearly outlines hijab.

 

[burdenofbeing]

If we were to trust shampoo commercials, hair is THE most exciting part of women

 

[GreyKode]

^burden you make a great point.