Invoking others other than Allah???

[Muslim Soldier]

Allah says that but he also says, And seek a means (wasila) to Him. [Quran, 5: 35]

 

[M H Kahn]

Originally Posted by Quran
And seek a means (wasila) to Him. [Quran, 5: 35]

Here the Arabic term "wasila" signifies means of nearness to Allah.The full verse is:"O believers! Fear Allah and seek the means to be closer to Him and make Jihãd (struggle) in His Way so that you may be successful."

 

[Muslim Soldier]

Narrated by Abu Huraira
Sahih Bukhari 75:317

Allahs apostle said"For every prophet there is one special invocation that will not be rejected with which he appeals to Allah..."

 

[Abu Zakariya]

Muslim soldier

Specify what you mean by "asking through the Prophet". If you mean that you call out to him and say: "Oh Prophet, help me", then yes, this is shirk.

However, if you say: "Oh Allah, I ask you by the essence of the Prophet", then this isn't shirk, but it isn't allowed.

 

[M H Kahn]

Muslim soldie

However, if you say: "Oh Allah, I ask you by the essence of the Prophet", then this isn't shirk, but it isn't allowed.

This is innovation, too and every innovation is a misguidance.

 

[Muslim Soldier]

Narrated by Abu Huraira
Sahih Bukhari 75:317

Allahs apostle said"For every prophet there is one special invocation that will not be rejected with which he appeals to Allah..."

what about this ?
KHAN??

 

[Abu Zakariya]

Where does that hadith say that seeking intercession from the Prophet (salallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) after his death is okay?

 

[M H Kahn]

Shirk?? Hah

The Holy Prophet himself taught his companion to make Dua by his own waseela. Imam tirmizi narrats that:

A blind man said to the Prophet pray that Allah may grant me goodness The Prophet (peace be upon him) said if you want, I can pray for you, or you can be patient and this is better for you. He said master (peace be upon him pray for me. The Prophet (peace be upon him) ordered him to perform wudu well and recite this Dua after offering two rakats of salaah.
"O Allah I ask from you and make a mediator and draw my concentration towards you via your prophet ( peace be upon him) who is the merciful Prophet (peace be upon him ). O Rasoolallah (Peace be upon Him), I turn to my lord ( the most high) regarding this need via you so that my need be fulfilled. Lord (the most high accept His (peace be upon him) intercession for me.
Hazarat Sayyidona uthman bin Hanif says " I swear by God we people had not even got up, but were still talking that they very blind person reached us. His eyesight had become so clear as if he was never blind. (Tirmizi)

We have received the Quran, the words of Allah, for our guidance through the prophet Muhammed (pbuh). The Quran ordains us to obey Allah, obey the prophet and we have the best model in his conduct. But the above story collected by Tirmizi does not come within the religion that the prophet has taught us. Allah sent messengers from time to time so that people call and worship Him alone directly. Tirmizi's story goes against the clear ordainment of the Quran. This is not all; we do not find any example in the conducr of the prophet(pbuh) that he had ever supplicated to Allah through any past prophet or saint or angel etc., rather the prophets' main job was to remove such medium in worship of Allah. Here also, we do not find any justification to consider the story as a religious teaching. There are so many supplications in the Quran--some made to Allah by past prophets and believers and some taught to us by Allah Himself; and we do not find any medium in any of such supplications. Therefore, anybody taking Tirmizi's story as a part of religion is likely to be committing 'shirk' in that the story denies the Quranic ordainmant in Surah Ikhlas that Allah is not dependent on anything in His creation, rather the whole of the creation depends on Him. When one takes a story (as a part of religion) that denies any Quranic ordainment, the person is likely to be committing 'kufr' also. If you believe the story, you virtually disbelieve the Quran and Sunnah. Whereon will you base your religon? On Tirmizi's story or on the Quran and Sunnah. Acceptance of one denies the other. What will you deny? The story or the Quran and Sunnah? The choice is yours !

 

[M H Kahn]

Narrated by Abu Huraira
Sahih Bukhari 75:317

Allahs apostle said"For every prophet there is one special invocation that will not be rejected with which he appeals to Allah..."
what about this ?
KHAN??

No comment .This is not a part of Quranic teaching to "obey Allah and obey the prophet". Allah says:

Guard yourselves against the Day on which one soul shall not avail another - no intercession shall be accepted, no ransom shall be taken and no help shall be given.[2:48]

Do you not know that to Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and that besides Allah, you have no protector or helper![2:107]

Guard yourselves against the Day when one soul shall not avail another, no ransom shall be taken, no intercession shall profit anyone, and no help shall be given.[2:123]

O believers! Spend out of the sustenance which We have provided for you before the arrival of that Day when there will be no bargaining, friendship or intercession. It is the unbelievers who are wrongdoers.[2:254]

If Allah helps you, then there is none who can overcome you. If He forsakes you, then who else is there other than Him who can help you? Therefore, in Allah let the believers put their trust.[3:160]

 

[Abu Zakariya]

The hadith found in Tirmidhi is sahih according to al-Albani (although it's authenticity is disputed by others) and the hadith in Bukhari is also sahih, so there's no need to reject them.

However, they don't tell us to invoce others besides Allah, so they can't be used as proof for this.

 

[shanu]

Muslim soldeir bro
r u trying to say that Allah is not the all mighty and he has not enough power that we have to go through a dead to fulfill our prayers? Allah gave us opprtunity to pray to him and ask him. Which wasila did the Prophet take? U can ask a alive person to make dua, But a dead person??? Can he make dua? He cant even defend himself. Allah has also said that we can only repent till we r alive, what does this tell u, we can only pray and ask 4giveness till ur alive, so tell me, can the dead make dua after he is dead??? Read the Quran well and u will see. The Prophet himself didnt invoke anyone, and he being the role model, shouldnt we follow him. tHE blind man story was when he was aive. Thats fine? The other time u want to ask the Prophet is only in day of judgement

 

[Muslim Soldier]

Muslim soldeir bro
r u trying to say that Allah is not the all mighty and he has not enough power that we have to go through a dead to fulfill our prayers? Allah gave us opprtunity to pray to him and ask him. Which wasila did the Prophet take? U can ask a alive person to make dua, But a dead person??? Can he make dua? He cant even defend himself. Allah has also said that we can only repent till we r alive, what does this tell u, we can only pray and ask 4giveness till ur alive, so tell me, can the dead make dua after he is dead??? Read the Quran well and u will see. The Prophet himself didnt invoke anyone, and he being the role model, shouldnt we follow him. tHE blind man story was when he was aive. Thats fine? The other time u want to ask the Prophet is only in day of judgement

And say not of those who are slain in the way of Allah: "They are dead." Nay, they are living, though ye perceive (it) not.


I did not ever mention that Allah almighty does not have enough power. When we ask "others" we dont ask them!

We ask them to ask Allah on our behalf.
as for those who are dead, the quran tells us some are not dead.

 

[thc]

aAssalamu alaikum,

According to the ahle sunnah wal jamaah the saints/walis are alive in their graves!

 

[united]

If you must have someone to intercede for you then wwho is a better candidate than Rasulullah (s)?
Yet after the Prophet (s) passed away, there are no traditions of Sahabas going to the Raudah to ask him for anything.
If we look back in history, this is exactly how idol worshipping always started.
1) ask the saint to intercede
2) then ask him to give it to you himself
3) it becomes so normal to ask the saint, that people forget the original goal, Allah.

 

[M H Kahn]

"And say not of those who are slain in the way of Allah: 'They are dead. Nay, they are living, though ye perceive (it) not.' "

This does not mean that they are alive like the living people on earth. They are absent from the earth through death. To those living on the earth, they are dead. However, they have been kept alive by Allah in the hereafter, but we do not know how and where. If you call a dead person, meaning one who is no more alive in this world, and request him to pray for you to Allah (as we usually request a live person to pray for us when we meet him), I am sure, this is an innovation which must be shunned. If you, on the other hand, believe that any dead person (be he a prophet, a saint or scholar) has any power to influence on Allah, then you are committing shirk.

According to the ahle sunnah wal jamaah the saints/walis are alive in their graves!

This does not mean that you should worship them instead of Allah or along with Allah,Who is all-powerful over all things as declared by Him repeatedly in the Quran. If you believe that any person, dead or alive, has any power to assert influence on Allah, and through the so-called influence, he can do any good or harm to you, you are just setting up many gods beside God. You are going back to pre-Islamic Arabia to shake hands with the 'taguts'.

 

[syilla]

yup... you're parents are wrong. Better learn from a few muslims/muslimah that is really on the right path.

 

[extinction]

yup... you're parents are wrong. Better learn from a few muslims/muslimah that is really on the right path.

umm no offence good point but could have been presented in a better way?

 

[M H Kahn]

Islam consists in two codes: code of faith and code of conduct. Code of faith requires us to believe that Allah is all-powerful over all things and He has not delegated any power to any of His creations including a prophet to do us any good or harm either in this life or in the hereafter. It is an essential part of the code of faith that all prophets (some of whom Allah gave some supernatural powers during their lifetime only) were mere preacher of good news and warnings. As is very evident in the Quran, none of them has been or will be given any power by Allah to do any good or harm to anybody in the hereafter. If you believe in various stories that many people say that in the hereafter none will go to the paradise without the intercession of Muhammed (pbuh) or that there will be other independent intercessors, you will be denying the Quranic ordainment:

002.123
YUSUFALI: Then guard yourselves against a-Day when one soul shall not avail another, nor shall compensation be accepted from her nor shall intercession profit her nor shall anyone be helped (from outside).

PICKTHAL: And guard (yourselves) against a day when no soul will in aught avail another, nor will compensation be accepted from it, nor will intercession be of use to it; nor will they be helped.

SHAKIR: And be on your guard against a day when no soul shall avail another in the least neither shall any compensation be accepted from it, nor shall intercession profit it, nor shall they be helped.

 

[Muslim Soldier]

If you, on the other hand, believe that any dead person (be he a prophet, a saint or scholar) has any power to influence on Allah, then you are committing shirk.

They were good people in this world, die in the way of Allah. They are closer to Allah then us normal people thus they can ask Allah for our sake. Not they do not fulfill our duas. All they do is intercede on our behalf.

This does not mean that you should worship them instead of Allah or along with Allah,Who is all-powerful over all things as declared by Him repeatedly in the Quran. If you believe that any person, dead or alive, has any power to assert influence on Allah, and through the so-called influence, he can do any good or harm to you, you are just setting up many gods beside God. You are going back to pre-Islamic Arabia to shake hands with the 'taguts'.

Why do you like jumping to conclusions?
Who mentioned anything about worshipping them?

 

[M H Kahn]

Calling any dead person and request him to pray for you to Allah is an innovative practice unknown to the Islam preached by Muhammed (pbuh). Asking Allah to grant a prayer for the sake of some dead or live person (e.g. a prophet, a saint or a scholar etc.) is treating that person as a partner in the realm of Allah.