Invoking others other than Allah???

[Qurratul Ayn]

Assalamu Alaikum

Sister shanu as you have written in the first post that Muslim should seek help from Allah Ta'ala, then pray to Allah Ta'ala The Almighty and Inshallah Ta'ala evrything will be alright.

My Dear Sister shanu, we can only do so much but the only one who can do evrything is Allah Ta'ala, so pray with all your heart and stay on the right path.

Assalamu Alaikum
Shakirah

 

[Muslim Soldier]

Calling any dead person and request him to pray for you to Allah is an innovative practice unknown to the Islam preached by Muhammed (pbuh). Asking Allah to grant a prayer for the sake of some dead or live person (e.g. a prophet, a saint or a scholar etc.) is treating that person as a partner in the realm of Allah.

Read this properly. Allah says in the quran and I gave you the ayah.
And say not of those who are slain in the way of Allah: "They are dead." Nay, they are living, though ye perceive (it) not.

So one thing is certain. When one asks through shaheeds (martyrs) these martyrs are not dead!

What remains is explaining wether one is allowed to ask someone living to intercede for his behalf

 

[Khaldun]

Sister Shanu, I URGE you to download these talks Index of /Kitaab At-Tawheed and all the other members aswell, this is a very important kitaab on this issue it will clearfy everything inshAllah. Please listen to it from cover to cover, you will love it inshAllah :brother:

 

[united]

Read this properly. Allah says in the quran and I gave you the ayah.
And say not of those who are slain in the way of Allah: "They are dead." Nay, they are living, though ye perceive (it) not.

So one thing is certain. When one asks through shaheeds (martyrs) these martyrs are not dead!

What remains is explaining wether one is allowed to ask someone living to intercede for his behalf

the question is not whether they are living or dead. The question is what is the need to use them as a medium? It is perfectly acceptable to ask Allah to let us enjoy the intercession of Muhammed (s) on the day of Judgement. Why do we need to ask the saints?

 

[Muslim Soldier]

the question is not whether they are living or dead. The question is what is the need to use them as a medium? It is perfectly acceptable to ask Allah to let us enjoy the intercession of Muhammed (s) on the day of Judgement. Why do we need to ask the saints?

If it is right to ask the prophet when he is living why is it wrong to ask him after his death?

 

[M H Kahn]

If it is right to ask the prophet when he is living why is it wrong to ask him after his death?

Can you talk with a dead person? If you cannot, how can you make him hear you says? Besides, such invocation is not in the conduct of Muhammed(pbuh) or of his companions. This is innovation and every innovator is a doer of shirk in the prophethood.

 

[Muslim Soldier]

Can you talk with a dead person? If you cannot, how can you make him hear you says? .

How many times do I prove my point. THEY ARE NOT DEAD!

And regarding how I can make him hear what I say; Allah has given some individuals that power to intercede on their behalf. Allah has given them the power and it is because of Him that they can intercede. These people are the righteous servants of The Merciful Allah.

Therefore how is this shirk?

 

[waji]

In Quran Allah Says in Sura Fatir 35 (Ayaah 18-23)
# Nor can a bearer of burdens bear another's burdens. If one heavily laden should call another to (bear) his load. Not the least portion of it can be carried (by the other). Even though he be nearly related. Thou canst but warn such as fear their Lord unseen and establish regular Prayer. And whoever purifies himself does so for the benefit of his own soul; and the destination (of all) is to Allah.
# The blind and the seeing are not alike;
# Nor are the depths of Darkness and the Light;
# Nor are the (chilly) shade and the (genial) heat of the sun:
# Nor are alike those that are living and those that are dead. Allah can make any that He wills to hear; but thou canst not make those to hear who are (buried) in graves.
# Thou art no other than a warner.(to Prophet Muhammad(S.A.W))

Saying Salam is a Duaa
remember Allah is watching everything

This ayats i have posted and Muslim Soldier im posting it again for u
if u don't open ur eye i don't mind
but plz
open ur Heart and accept the Truth

May Allah Guide u to the Right Path (Ameen)

 

[Muslim Soldier]

Sorry wkas I dont see any connection

 

[waji]

what u don't see any connection
don't u see it what Allah said to Muhammad(S.A.W) that his voice can't be heard by the dead people and if Muhammad(S.A.W) 's voice can't be heard by a dead person how can u imagine that ur voice can be heard
and in my opinion it is against the Sunnah even

 

[Muslim Soldier]

what u don't see any connection
don't u see it what Allah said to Muhammad(S.A.W) that his voice can't be heard by the dead people and if Muhammad(S.A.W) 's voice can't be heard by a dead person how can u imagine that ur voice can be heard
and in my opinion it is against the Sunnah even

I did not take time reading your earlier post. Could you please explain where Allah says this?

 

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

I did not take time reading your earlier post. Could you please explain where Allah says this?

Here:
Surah Fatir
22. Nor are (alike) the living (believers) and the dead (disbelievers). Verily, Allâh makes whom He will hear, but you cannot make hear those who are in graves.

The Prophet cannot hear you, and theoretically if he did, he would not be able to respond. Nor can any in the graves hear you. They are in the life of the Barzakh, and they know not what is going on this Earth.

The Prophet ONLY receives the Salams of the people through angels that give it to him.

 

[waji]

In Quran Allah Says in Sura Fatir 35 (Ayaah 18-23)
# Nor can a bearer of burdens bear another's burdens. If one heavily laden should call another to (bear) his load. Not the least portion of it can be carried (by the other). Even though he be nearly related. Thou canst but warn such as fear their Lord unseen and establish regular Prayer. And whoever purifies himself does so for the benefit of his own soul; and the destination (of all) is to Allah.

Even this particular Ayat gives us explanation to the order later came in the ayats

# The blind and the seeing are not alike;
# Nor are the depths of Darkness and the Light;
# Nor are the (chilly) shade and the (genial) heat of the sun:
here Allah is giving the examples

# Nor are alike those that are living and those that are dead. Allah can make any that He wills to hear; but thou canst not make those to hear who are (buried) in graves.
# Thou art no other than a warner.(to Prophet Muhammad(S.A.W))

here Allah says it

It is better to learn Quran but more better to understand it and then obey it

 

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

Assalamu alaikum
im in great need 4 ur help?
I dont understand. I need help.

This is definetly Shirk. By saying that these are intercessors, you are claiming that Allah does not know of you and that these 'auwliya' have to inform Allah of you. See my last post, they cannot hear you.

Dua is an act of worship. Therefore when directed at anyone or anything else it becomes Shirk. Asking someone to make Dua whil they are alive is allowed, but not recommended as it goes againt the perfection of Iman. But asking them when they are dead is definetly shirk.

The general rule of thumb to note in general is: IF you are doing something, and it qualifies as an act of worship i.e. you do to Allah, i.e. Dua, . Then after, if you do it to someone else, it becomes Shirk.

After all, they cannot respond to you. They cannot even hear you. Why then would you call on them? Only Allah hears you.

"And most of them believe not in Allah except that they attribute partners (unto Him)." (12:106)

 

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

According to the ahle sunnah wal jammaah (which sunnipath.com follows) it is not shirk.

When muslims go to these saints graves/dargahs/mazaara/tombs whatever you want to call them some DO shirk by performing sijdah to them or doing acts of ibaadat directly to them.

Using waseela means that one prays to Allaah using their waseela meaning that they make duaa for you as according to the ahle sunnah wal jamaah these saints are alive in their graves anD can make dua to Allaah.

Some muslims say that these saints are dead that is why they do not believe in waseela.

Guess who teaches there? I dont want to go into sect discussions, but that is not ahle Sunnah Wal Jamaah. That is the soofiyah.

Shaykh Nuh Ha Mim Keller.

Read this:

Nuh Ha Mim Keller

Salaam

I am not a scholar but here are my views

When you are afriad or shy about meeting or asking someone something, you ask someone who is closer to this person to ask on your behalf.
The same way, in times of difficulties, if you ask through the prophet or shaheed since they are closer to Allah, they ask on your behalf hence your hajaat is accepted.

The difference lies there. The Prophet is dead from this life, and so are the shaeed. The person you are meeting is alive.

Example
Allah gave Hazrat Isa the power to cure the sick. Now when people went to him and asked him to cure them, Isa (as) cured them. Is this shirk? No

Again they were alive.

Why?
because Isa cured through the grace of Allah. The same way when your parents ask through the shaheed, they ask the shaheed to ask Allah to grant the wish.

He was alive, the shaheed is dead. He cannot hear you, much less respond. Dua is an act of Worship directed only at Allah. Making Dua to someone else is Shirk as you think he has some super natural powers to respond to you when in fact he doesnt even hear you.

" Say: "Call upon those whom you claim besides Allah: They have no power, not the weight of an atom - in the heavens or on the earth. No share have they therein, nor is any of them a helper to Allah. No intercession can avail with Him, except for those for whom He has granted permission. So much so that, when terror is removed from their hearts, they will say: "That which is true and just; and He is the Most High, Most Great."" (Qur'an 34:22-23)

Confirmation of intercession after Allah permits it and negation of it without His permission. These Verses prove the negation of intercession for all of Allah's creatures on their own initiative, and that granting intercession is the exclusive right of Allah , and therefore, to seek it from other than Allah is an act of Shirk. This includes the worship of idols which their worshipers claim have the power of intercession.

" Say to Allah belongs all intercession. To Him belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and to Him you shall all return" (Qur'an 39:44)

 

[waji]

This whole concept also gives an opinion that
Allah is just like any prime minister or president that u can't reach him or he can't look after everybody

and i don't understand
What is the problem in just Calling Allah for ur help
we Belief that he has all the Powers than why
Why we need anybody else to ask & call Allah on our behalf

 

[M H Kahn]

How many times do I prove my point. THEY ARE NOT DEAD!

Sorry ! Though they are alive with Allah, you do not know their whereabouts. They are not able to talk with you; nor are you able to talk with them. None can hear or respond the other.

And regarding how I can make him hear what I say; Allah has given some individuals that power to intercede on their behalf. Allah has given them the power and it is because of Him that they can intercede. These people are the righteous servants of The Merciful Allah. Therefore how is this shirk?

Can you adduce any evidence that hey can intercede? Look at the Quranic verses below:

Guard yourselves against the Day on which one soul shall not avail another - no intercession shall be accepted, no ransom shall be taken and no help shall be given.[2:48]

Do you not know that to Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and that besides Allah, you have no protector or helper![2:107]

Guard yourselves against the Day when one soul shall not avail another, no ransom shall be taken, no intercession shall profit anyone, and no help shall be given.[2:123]

O believers! Spend out of the sustenance which We have provided for you before the arrival of that Day when there will be no bargaining, friendship or intercession. It is the unbelievers who are wrongdoers.[2:254]

If Allah helps you, then there is none who can overcome you. If He forsakes you, then who else is there other than Him who can help you? Therefore, in Allah let the believers put their trust.[3:160]

Lo! your Lord is Allah Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days, then He established Himself upon the Throne, directing all things. There is no intercessor (with Him) save after His permission. That is Allah, your Lord, so worship Him. Oh, will ye not remind ?[Surah Yunus:3]

No intercession availeth with Him save for him whom He permitteth. Yet, when fear is banished from their hearts, they say: What was it that your Lord said ? They say: The Truth. And He is the Sublime, the Great.[Surah Saba:23[

And We sent no messenger before thee but We inspired him, (saying): There is no God save Me (Allah), so worship Me.[Surah Anbia:25]

He knoweth what is before them and what is behind them, and they cannot intercede except for him whom He accepteth, and they quake for awe of Him..[Surah Anbia:28]

 

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

Read this properly. Allah says in the quran and I gave you the ayah.
And say not of those who are slain in the way of Allah: "They are dead." Nay, they are living, though ye perceive (it) not.

So one thing is certain. When one asks through shaheeds (martyrs) these martyrs are not dead!

What remains is explaining wether one is allowed to ask someone living to intercede for his behalf

Yes they are alive, for sure the Prophets are. And the Martyrs. But where does it say they are alive in this world? They are in the life of the Barzakh, and they cannot hear you. Therefore to invoke them or ask them to intercede is the essence of Shirk.

How many times do I prove my point. THEY ARE NOT DEAD!

And regarding how I can make him hear what I say; Allah has given some individuals that power to intercede on their behalf. Allah has given them the power and it is because of Him that they can intercede. These people are the righteous servants of The Merciful Allah.

Therefore how is this shirk?

As per forum rules, typing that big is subject to getting a warn.

That power is only granted to them on the Day of Judgement, not now, not here. And Allah will tell them who to intercede for. And intercession will only be granted to the People of Tawheed:

(i) That Allah has permitted the intercession, and (ii) that He is pleased with the one for whom intercession is sought. And Allah is not Pleased with any save the People of Tawheed as is confirmed by the Hadith: "On behalf of whom will your intercession be most pleasing (to Allah), oh, Messenger of Allah?" He replied: Him who says: Laa ilaaha illal-laah, sincerely, from his heart."
Narrated by Bukhari, on the authority of Abu Hurairah (ra)_.

 

[x Maz x]

MashAllah very well explained
One question : As per forum rules, typing that big is subject to getting a warn. Why have a feature if you cant use it? just out curiosity...please dont pop at me WalaykumAsalaam x

 

[Muslim Soldier]

Here:
Surah Fatir
22. Nor are (alike) the living (believers) and the dead (disbelievers). Verily, Allâh makes whom He will hear, but you cannot make hear those who are in graves.

Nor are the living equal with the dead . Lo! Allah maketh whom He will to hear . Thou canst not reach those who are in the graves .

the translation I found was the one above.
Now the question arises, is the prophet in the Grave?
the answer is easly found here.

They are in the life of the Barzakh, and they know not what is going on this Earth.

The prophet is not in the grave therefore he can hear us.

The Prophet cannot hear you, and theoretically if he did, he would not be able to respond. Nor can any in the graves hear you.


The Prophet ONLY receives the Salams of the people through angels that give it to him.

So the prophet can recive salaams through angles but he can not recive anything else?