Is god above the laws he creates? Paradox

  • Thread starter Thread starter Kyubi
  • Start date Start date
  • Replies Replies 51
  • Views Views 7K
Status
Not open for further replies.
Easy, tiger. Sorry if that offended you.

And you mean "their" not "there". And "you're", not "your". And you probably need an "and" or a period/full stop after "idiot". Happens to the best of us, mate.

I do think you're getting a bit ad hominem though. The point I was ironically trying to make is that there is no use in simply complaining about hardship, which is how I interpreted your post. You just have to move on and roll with the punches as it were. Of course, I could have just misinterpreted your post.

You didn't offend me by all means you simply made a mockery of yourself and I opted to correct it before it led to flaming in my thread.

Oh and Iam sorry if my grammar isn't as divine as yours. Not all of us have the energy to copy and paste into Microsoft word like a few here. Oh and its spelled "homonym" :)

mr.hominem said:
no use in simply complaining about hardship

That’s your opinion and you have the freedom of will to be entitled to it.

He didn't even ask for our money

I should like to hope not

For the Muslims, obeying & pleasing God is the only natural way of showing our gratitude to our Creator.

It is isn't it. Well what a wonderful truth, however its not the natural course its what were bound to. Try as we like we will never be released of that debt just as we may never breath life without "his" air we will never be free.

The real sin is disobeying Allah, it is Allah who decide what is sin or good deed.

Ah, yes. Again the "One thousand possible answers" has reared itself. Its as I said religion and god will always contradict themselves whenever they find it convenient to do so. It’s the sign of a being that is in great conflict with himself. Opt for the truth and find courage in your heart to reject what you know deep down is wrong.
 
Last edited:
It is isn't it. Well what a wonderful truth, however its not the natural course its what were bound to. Try as we like we will never be released of that debt just as we may never breath life without "his" air we will never be free.

Hey I have mentioned in my earlier post so don't take out of context and out of convenience. We are not asked to repay anything, it is beyond our ability to repay the Supreme Being, and He knows this. All that is being asked is the obedience to do certain good things and to abandon certain evil things. How hard can that be?

Some of us may have been bad but then again we are given chance to repent and have been told numerous times that the One who is Full of Loving Kindness, can and will accept our sincere repentance and forgive us.

Christians always mention about God's love towards us, His creations. What about this? God loves us so much that He created us out opf nothing, gives us that sense of self, not asking us to repay that debt, but instead tells us to be good and remember Him and do not do evil unto our own selves and others. Simple math!! No debt!

If all else fails and we purposely want to do evil and destruction unto others, what rights do we have but evil and destruction also which Hell is the most fitting end for such individuals?
 
Here's a challenge to you Kyubi, if you think God needs or not of your approval. In the Quran, there's a challenge for the non-believer to create a single fly out of nothing. If you think you can answer that challenge, please disapprove or approve God. I'm sure He's listening.

Don't use any of other fly which God created in order to achieve this task. Don't use any fly DNA extracted from any fly. Moreover, don't use molecules created by Him to create fly DNA. You must create your own molecules out of nothing. Give those molecules your own names if you wish, but you may not use names which have already been taken. Otherwise, you'd be accused of plagiarising things which God created.

You must cause the molecules to form the essential amino acids to provide the helix for the DNA structure and cause it to form cells which can later transform into the fly. You must not use implements or laboratories which are built using materials created by God. Do it yourself by your own sheer force of will.

If you can do this, you are god.

Oh, also, you must not use the universe which He created. Use your own. Create your own universe. Also, when doing so, please return that physical body and soul, they belong to God. Create your own body & soul.

If you can.
 
You didn't offend me by all means you simply made a mockery of yourself and I opted to correct it before it led to flaming in my thread.
Are you flirting with me?

But seriously, if you look at my other posts in the forum, you'll see I mock just about everything and don't really care how I look in the process.

Oh and Iam sorry if my grammar isn't as divine as yours. Not all of us have the energy to copy and paste into Microsoft word like a few here. Oh and its spelled "homonym" :)
I think you'll find the logical fallacy I was referring to was ad hominem. A homonym is a word form that has two distinct meanings. I know that's pedantic, but what the heck, it's educational and kind of funny.

And one doesn't need Microsoft Word to spell correctly...

That’s your opinion and you have the freedom of will to be entitled to it.
Thank you for being polite.
 
Last edited:
Kyubi, your willing to go to hell just for one event ( Iblis prostrating to Adam) that you dont understand. Are you willing to leave Islam despite all the signs and blessing you know that Allah greated. Your selfish, you refuse to pray to god out of arrogance. All the sudden you put aside all the blessing and concluded god is unjust because of one event.
 
Allah-creation said:
Kyubi, your willing to go to hell just for one event ( Iblis prostrating to Adam) that you dont understand. Are you willing to leave Islam despite all the signs and blessing you know that Allah greated. Your selfish, you refuse to pray to god out of arrogance. All the sudden you put aside all the blessing and concluded god is unjust because of one event.

I understand the event well and I know full well what could become of me. The Jinn to were rebellious and would not reform, although prophets were sent to reclaim them; they were eventually driven from the Earth and some taken prisoner others took refuge in the outer planes.

One of the Jinn named Azazeel (afterward mocked as the Iblees) was carried off as a prisoner by angels. He grew up among them and became their respected friend even though Azazeel should have realized such pitiful creatures were blind and without will unable to create from nothing what we call friendship, but when he refused to prostrate himself before Adam he was degraded to the condition of a sheytân (devil), cast out of heaven along with man he was forced to share paradise with adam and eve. Eventually he took his anger out on man by convincing eve to eat a forbidden fruit planted by Allah for the purpose of punishing us.

I can see just well here that Azazeel was a righteous being worthy of respect but because of Gods selfish self-purpose he was forced to commit sin and worse yet having realized Gods feelings for the Jinn he made the only choice that was left to him. I do not blame him nor attribute mans sins and madness to him or his race.

The "Whispers" that most people hear is not that of the Jinn but there selves it is there subconscious screaming what is concealed in man heart. A fear of God, contempt for his ignorant attitude towards us. But man will always bury and hide their desires for what they desire as truth. It’s not too difficult to let Azazeel bear our weight and sins it’s the nature of man.

You said one event? So then why has god condemned us for one single meaningless "event". To eat of the fruit is a sin and we did it out of ignorance yet Allah is too selfish to accept that his law is not absolute. God we ate the fruit because you created us with free will should you not be pleased that we do indeed have the will and conscience to decide for ourselves what is right and what is wrong. You bound that law on the fruit for no other purpose then to cast us into this earth, why.


Here's a challenge to you Kyubi, if you think God needs or not of your approval. In the Quran, there's a challenge for the non-believer to create a single fly out of nothing. If you think you can answer that challenge, please disapprove or approve God. I'm sure He's listening.

Don't use any of other fly which God created in order to achieve this task. Don't use any fly DNA extracted from any fly. Moreover, don't use molecules created by Him to create fly DNA. You must create your own molecules out of nothing. Give those molecules your own names if you wish, but you may not use names which have already been taken. Otherwise, you'd be accused of plagiarising things which God created.

You must cause the molecules to form the essential amino acids to provide the helix for the DNA structure and cause it to form cells which can later transform into the fly. You must not use implements or laboratories which are built using materials created by God. Do it yourself by your own sheer force of will.

If you can do this, you are god.

Ah to be god if an impossible opportunity presented itself I would take it. Unfortunately we are man, with haste we move through two short lives. Driven by base desires, bound and enslaved to the heavens.

Why must I become god? Is it necessary to create life to have life. We at the least have something God nor his angels will never have and that’s the love and friendship the bond we create from nothing with our fellow species. God could never befriend man only drive him into fear or worship. Tell me would any of you sacrifice your mother-father-siblings and friends for god? Would you forsake your humanity.


God loves us so much that He created us out opf nothing, gives us that sense of self, not asking us to repay that debt

Our debt is unpaid to God and for that we will continue to suffer. And what of Gods debt to us, how much blood has been spilled on this earth how many people have lost the breath of the air he created. When will these debts be paid, judgment day? We should like to hope so lest god should change his mind or force us into the position of the Jinn.

I fear God and I also love him I can't help it. But I also feel contempt for our grief and our sorrow that God will never understand. I wish God could love us back and understand us.

I do not love nor care for shaitan or his kin I just don't want to end up like them.
 
Last edited:
the problem is you don't understand god's wisdom. You think you can judge everything with human limited mind. God cares and love us, everything he does, even if we don't understand it, we msut respect and believe in it.
 
Ibliss is the Jinn who disobeyed Allah's command to prostrate to Adam (as), and was consequently expelled from Heaven. Allah had promised him eternal Hell, but he had asked Allah to give him time before going to Hell to win over Adam's descendants as their followers. Allah had granted him time, and Ibliss has worked towards the destruction of mankind ever since...

And so ends reason and the logic of faith. To clarify, Allah the omnipotent the benevolent being that he is or is said to be has allowed the Shiyatan who has become a mortal enemy of mankind (who for the only course being malice towards us is because Allah created man and effectively brushed off the jinn as a failed race) to **** and cause strife and torment upon us on the whims of a request..

This saddens me, is this the result of our creation fleeting ****ation both the heavens and hell competing to bring man into a burning abode.

Basically Iblees was created to worship Allah. He disobeyed Allah and refused to bow to the best creation of Allah on the plea that there's a defect in the creation of man. The man is prone to make mistakes (which Allah designed on purpose because man always learns from his mistakes). The second argument of Iblees was that no creation of Allah could be superior to that which worships Allah more. Therefore, Iblees according to himself was superior to man according to his argument. A superior shoouldn't bow to an iferrior. Therefore, he disobeyed Allah and pledged to misguide the human race for the entire life. Allah was sure that his best creation wouldn't be misled by the Iblees, so He let him loose. Iblees changed his appearance and mixed up in the human race. He's one who makes humans believe in his theory that those who do nothing but only worship Allah are the best people. All those who propagate theory and make themselves as worship leaders are not liked by wise human beings. Therore, no wise human want to make their children become the worship leaders. These leaders create nothing but fitnas and fasaad on earth, which is ultimate goal of Iblees.
 
Basically Iblees was created to worship Allah. He disobeyed Allah and refused to bow to the best creation of Allah on the plea that there's a defect in the creation of man. The man is prone to make mistakes (which Allah designed on purpose because man always learns from his mistakes). The second argument of Iblees was that no creation of Allah could be superior to that which worships Allah more. Therefore, Iblees according to himself was superior to man according to his argument. A superior shoouldn't bow to an iferrior. Therefore, he disobeyed Allah and pledged to misguide the human race for the entire life. Allah was sure that his best creation wouldn't be misled by the Iblees, so He let him loose. Iblees changed his appearance and mixed up in the human race. He's one who makes humans believe in his theory that those who do nothing but only worship Allah are the best people. All those who propagate theory and make themselves as worship leaders are not liked by wise human beings. Therore, no wise human want to make their children become the worship leaders. These leaders create nothing but fitnas and fasaad on earth, which is ultimate goal of Iblees.


but the primary reason that Iblees refused was that he was created from Fire and man was created from Sand. That's why he refused.

I have heard this in Islamic lectures.
 
but the primary reason that Iblees refused was that he was created from Fire and man was created from Sand. That's why he refused.

That is a farse, but go ahead and lead yourself to believe it. Its as I said before "he and his race now were brushed aside by the creator they did so rever who now considers them nothing but a failure and if that wasn't enough now he's forced to bow and prostrate himself and devalue the very meaning of his existence. His reaction must have been more emotional when shaytan said he was better maybe he way trying to desperately hold on to what value was left in him. It could be he was heartbroken in the fire of the situation. Can a Jinn be heartbroken? I know what you would say why should we care but at the least it means something to me." Azaazel was not a fool nor was he some villain you would like to paint him as.

But I have no hope in opening your eyes so long as your heart is shut filled with ignorance."But man will always bury and hide their desires for what they desire as truth."
 
kyubi, i am getting sick and tired of your arrogance. Whatever your trying to accomplish forget about it, go mislead yourself to hell for all i care.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar Threads

Back
Top