Is Islam based on Biblical teachings?

[Zafran]

I confirm your explanation to why the 66 books of the Bible are corrupt is on the death of the respective authors Satan corrupted the writing of the original text.

Does the bible have 66 books or 73? which bible are we specifically talking about?

 

[Scimitar]

Hi Scimi
I would like to give you my answer but it would be expressing my faith view which is against the posting rules of this site.

Regards
Doug

Hi dwa2day,

i dont think you need to state your religion in order to answer the question - a simple yes or no answer would do - the question itself was closed.

God bless,

Scimi

 

[kritikvernunft]

why cannot Islam simple stand on its own teachings and sacred text such as other faith based religions do?

Religion is not an invention but a discovery, i.e. in religious terms, a revelation.

So, yes, other people had independently discovered that universal time is finite, that there must be a first cause located at the beginning times, and that this first cause is the principle of causality to everything else. In terms of moral rules, i.e. Divine Law, it is obvious that the blueprint of humanity contains this law, that this blueprint must have existed before humanity did, and hence that humanity could impossibly have designed its own blueprint.

There is absolutely nothing to "invent" about this.

It is the same with things like number theory. These things are discovered and not invented. Hence, you should not be surprised that ancient Indians had discovered bits and bobs of modular algebra without ever discussing with the Mexican Mayas, who also had managed to discover these things independently. In fact, anybody even with just half a brain would end up rediscovering these things ...

 

[dwa2day]

False, That is not true. And that is not what I meant. I didn't say the Bible is 100% corrupt. Can you elaborate on "based on the Bible"?

Cause the Quran is 100% word of Allah, independent. The Injeel - previous revelation- in its pure form hold the same message as that of the Quran.

Aren't you going to say "The Bible is based on the Torah"? All Prophets :as: came with the same exact message. The Qur'aan confirms the previous revelations, and what is in it.

Don't put words in my mouth. A scholar of Islam can elaborate.

Hi Serinity
I have not put words in your mouth as you claim, I simply made a logical detuction base on what you wrote I said “Thus one can deduct……… as you wrote “The Quran is not based off of The Bible” And later “the depictions of the Prophets are fabrications. we do not take from the Bible, as it is corrupt”

Now you are say something different, ”I didn't say the Bible is 100% corrupt.” My dilemma here you cannot have it both ways. Secondly if the original text of the Bible which confirm the Quran are lost we have no reference to the truth other than faith. Thus have no basis in determining what is true in the Bible and or Torah. Therefore we are left with only one of two options, 1=the Bible is true or 2= the bible

Thirdly is your reference to the Injeel…
It is clear from the Quran that Prophet Jesus (pbuh) was granted wisdom even as a child (19:29-30, 5:110). There is no proof from the Quran that he was bestowed with a separate book called the 'Injeel' at such a young age. In contrast, the Injeel seems to refer to the 'wisdom' that was granted to him. (Referenced from quranmessage .com)
Again a book that cannot be referenced and thus is a matter of faith.
Your question “Can you elaborate on "based on the Bible"?
I may not give you my view of the bible as it is against the posting rules of this site.
Further it is not my intention to promote my belief, prior to joining this forum I understood Islam to be a rich faith built on a solid base which stood alone in the world as a faith to consider if one is seeking eternal life. Hopefully by the end of my time here I will have a firm answer, right now based on the replies I have received I find Islam wanting, in that it seems to inconsistent in its foundation, as you have clearly stated, for one argument you claim the Bible is corrupt yet for another it is not a 100% corrupt. Thus asks the question is, on what rules is this determined and can we use the same rules to evaluate the Quran.
This is the hard question that is still unanswered.

Regards
Doug

 

[dwa2day]

Does the bible have 66 books or 73? which bible are we specifically talking about?

Hi Zafran
I am not sure to which bible Greenhill used in the explanation given. To me it really does not matter as the question is related to the general view of the Islamic faith that the Bible is corrupt, in the context of the discussion with Greenhill and his/her explanation. Thus if you wish to be specific on which one and how many books it is made up off then this must come from Greenhill or another professing Muslim not me.
My intention of the thread is to more fully understand the Islamic faith and not discuss other religious views as this is against the posting rules of this site.

Regards
Doug

 

[dwa2day]

Religion is not an invention but a discovery, i.e. in religious terms, a revelation.

So, yes, other people had independently discovered that universal time is finite, that there must be a first cause located at the beginning times, and that this first cause is the principle of causality to everything else. In terms of moral rules, i.e. Divine Law, it is obvious that the blueprint of humanity contains this law, that this blueprint must have existed before humanity did, and hence that humanity could impossibly have designed its own blueprint.

...

Hi kritikvernunft.
I must commend you on what you have written. It makes sense and resonates truth within my heart that conforms to a fair understand of things unknown. Thank you for the input.

Regards
Doug

 

[Serinity]

Hi Serinity
I have not put words in your mouth as you claim, I simply made a logical detuction base on what you wrote I said “Thus one can deduct……… as you wrote “The Quran is not based off of The Bible” And later “the depictions of the Prophets are fabrications. we do not take from the Bible, as it is corrupt”

Now you are say something different, ”I didn't say the Bible is 100% corrupt.” My dilemma here you cannot have it both ways. Secondly if the original text of the Bible which confirm the Quran are lost we have no reference to the truth other than faith. Thus have no basis in determining what is true in the Bible and or Torah. Therefore we are left with only one of two options, 1=the Bible is true or 2= the bible

Thirdly is your reference to the Injeel…
It is clear from the Quran that Prophet Jesus (pbuh) was granted wisdom even as a child (19:29-30, 5:110). There is no proof from the Quran that he was bestowed with a separate book called the 'Injeel' at such a young age. In contrast, the Injeel seems to refer to the 'wisdom' that was granted to him. (Referenced from quranmessage .com)
Again a book that cannot be referenced and thus is a matter of faith.
Your question “Can you elaborate on "based on the Bible"?
I may not give you my view of the bible as it is against the posting rules of this site.
Further it is not my intention to promote my belief, prior to joining this forum I understood Islam to be a rich faith built on a solid base which stood alone in the world as a faith to consider if one is seeking eternal life. Hopefully by the end of my time here I will have a firm answer, right now based on the replies I have received I find Islam wanting, in that it seems to inconsistent in its foundation, as you have clearly stated, for one argument you claim the Bible is corrupt yet for another it is not a 100% corrupt. Thus asks the question is, on what rules is this determined and can we use the same rules to evaluate the Quran.
This is the hard question that is still unanswered.

Regards
Doug

Allah revealed the Taurat to Musa :as: , and the Injeel to Jesus :as: Allah's words are absolute. I rather believe Allah, than you.

We do know what is true, and we can know what is true. In terms of beliefs, whatever goes against the Quran is false.

your deduction is fallacious. There are references to Prophet Muhammad :saw: in the Bible, there are frabications of what the Prophets :as: did. I am not saying everything in it is fabricated, rather some are.

As for the Injeel, it was revealed, and Allah knows best how.

 

[dwa2day]

Hi dwa2day,

i dont think you need to state your religion in order to answer the question - a simple yes or no answer would do - the question itself was closed.

God bless,

Scimi

Hi Scimi
Again your question requires me to express my religious views which is against the posting rules of the site. In addition the objective of the forum is to promote unity with in the Islamic faith not to discuss the merits of the Christian and Jewish faith texts.
Besides any answer to your question has nothing positive to add or enhance the question at hand which is “Is Islam based on Biblical Teachings?”
Regards
Doug

 

[dwa2day]

Allah revealed the Taurat to Musa :as: , and the Injeel to Jesus :as: Allah's words are absolute. I rather believe Allah, than you.

We do know what is true, and we can know what is true. In terms of beliefs, whatever goes against the Quran is false.

your deduction is fallacious. There are references to Prophet Muhammad :saw: in the Bible, there are frabications of what the Prophets :as: did. I am not saying everything in it is fabricated, rather some are.

As for the Injeel, it was revealed, and Allah knows best how.

Hi Serinity.
Thank you for your reply, and by no means am I asking you to believe me, rather Iam asking you to show me the foundation of the Islamic faith. In addition please accept my apologies if my logic of deduction has offended you, this is not my intention, but rather to gain understand of the foundation of the Islamic faith.
Thus I understand that the Quran is the absolute text from Allah and anything against it is false. In addition any reference to the Biblical text in the Quran is made to the original text which has been lost and not available to us today.
Would this be correct?

Regards
Doug

 

[greenhill]

I don't understand so much the reason behind the question. It is as tough the journey of the messages are unrelated. Allah Created all, and our journey as human race began with Adam pbuh. Abraham pbuh became known as the father of religion. It was rediscovered then. And all messages stemming from there grew with each Book. It is a continuation. Not borrowed from each other.

What was erred through the passage of time were corrected with the newer revelations. Then, the time came for the final messenger to do his bidding, to complete the message.

It is that simple.


eace:

 

[Scimitar]

Hi Scimi
Again your question requires me to express my religious views which is against the posting rules of the site. In addition the objective of the forum is to promote unity with in the Islamic faith not to discuss the merits of the Christian and Jewish faith texts.
Besides any answer to your question has nothing positive to add or enhance the question at hand which is “Is Islam based on Biblical Teachings?”
Regards
Doug

Afternoon dwa2day,

My friend, I could just as well do the same as you and claim that your thread OP does nothing to promote unity within Islam and is thus, against the rules of this site - right? However, evidently the thread still exists and I am still asking the question.

I'm leading your logic by it.

You want to know if the Quran is based on NT teachings... I want to know if the NT is based on OT teachings... and we are still here allowed to post with no warnings or moderator edits to our posts.

My friend, it's a simple question I ask, is the NT based on OT ??? the answer is either Yes or No - right? Should you decide to answer this simple question, you may or may not wish to elaborate on your reasons as to why. Should you decide to do so, we can talk more God willing.

Either way, I repeat to you words, you wrote to another:

It would have be nice to have an answer, rather than the my way or the high way response.

For the record, I highly doubt a moderator would serve you an infraction for answering a question I put to you.

God bless,

Scimi

 

[greenhill]

Which makes me think why would you not want to follow a message that is completed and the messenger passes in his bed after he had completed his mission.

Jesus obviously could not complete his. He was a hunted man and according to Christian belief, killed at the cross, ending the message abruptly.

It would make sense to follow up that message on a society that would be able to grasp the concept... rather alien one, to be charitible, forgiving, humble etc... but then again, so is the concept of the unseen God.

Even Christians need the symbol as representation. Know Jesus, the Holy Spirit but know not God. I don't recall the Bible having a name for Him.. The Quran hence, also set about redressing that, together with 99 names.

So that you would know.


eace:

 

[dwa2day]

Afternoon dwa2day,

My friend, I could just as well do the same as you and claim that your thread OP does nothing to promote unity within Islam and is thus, against the rules of this site - right? However, evidently the thread still exists and I am still asking the question.

I'm leading your logic by it.

You want to know if the Quran is based on NT teachings... I want to know if the NT is based on OT teachings... and we are still here allowed to post with no warnings or moderator edits to our posts.

My friend, it's a simple question I ask, is the NT based on OT ??? the answer is either Yes or No - right? Should you decide to answer this simple question, you may or may not wish to elaborate on your reasons as to why. Should you decide to do so, we can talk more God willing.

Either way, I repeat to you words, you wrote to another:



For the record, I highly doubt a moderator would serve you an infraction for answering a question I put to you.

God bless,

Scimi

Ok here is what I understand about the Bible.
In general terms without be specific with regards to any other faith and this is my view and not that of any specific faith or group. In simplicity the bible can be split in four parts.
The Torah or the books of Moses which are the first five book of the Old Testament, Genesis through to Deuteronomy.
The next 34 books form the balance of the books of the Old Testament, Joshua through to Malachi. Thus in total there are 39 books known as the Old Testament, which are used in the Jewish and Christian faith.
Nestled in between the New and Old Testament are 14 books known as the apocrypha books. Today only some of the eastern orthodox faith these books as part of their faith books. They make for good reading as insight into scripture but are not used by the majority of Christians or Jews as authentic works of faith.
The New Testament is made up of 27 books, Mathew through to Revelation. The first four are known as the Gospels. The majority of the books of the New Testament are letters written by the early Church Leaders to new members of faith know at the time as The Way.
The Jewish faith does not accept the New Testament as books of their faith. Thus for a Christian the bible consist of the Old & New Testament. In short and amongst other point of faith a Christian view the Old Testament as the Prophecy of the Messiah or Jesus. New the Testament tell the Story of the fulfilment of the Old Testament Prophecy of Christ (in excess of 330) the formation of the early Church and the end revelation of Christ.
I trust this answer the questions you have posed.

Regards
Doug

 

[Serinity]

The Quran is the revelation of Allah. Literal words of Allah. If anything, The Bible confirms the Qur'an, not the other way around.

If there is anything that the Bible has, the Quran has, that just means that it may be remnants from the words of Allah. Simple.

So to say that Islam is "based on" Biblical teaching, is fallacious. by that you'd have to say Taurat was "based on" what came before it.

All books in its pure form contain the same message.

Musa :as: came with the Taurat, it got corrupted. Then Isa :as: came with the Injeel, and then The Prophet Muhammad :saw: came reciting the Quran.

Christianity is a religion based on the corrupt teachings of the decievers. It is a by-product of the invented lies of man.

Islam is what Jesus :as: , Prophet Musa :as: and every single Prophet :as: preached. They all preached Islam. The Oneness of Allah, and they all called to worship Allah, alone.

Worshipping anything else or anyone else, and you have committed idolatory.

 

[Scimitar]

Ok here is what I understand about the Bible.
In general terms without be specific with regards to any other faith and this is my view and not that of any specific faith or group. In simplicity the bible can be split in four parts.
The Torah or the books of Moses which are the first five book of the Old Testament, Genesis through to Deuteronomy.
The next 34 books form the balance of the books of the Old Testament, Joshua through to Malachi. Thus in total there are 39 books known as the Old Testament, which are used in the Jewish and Christian faith.
Nestled in between the New and Old Testament are 14 books known as the apocrypha books. Today only some of the eastern orthodox faith these books as part of their faith books. They make for good reading as insight into scripture but are not used by the majority of Christians or Jews as authentic works of faith.
The New Testament is made up of 27 books, Mathew through to Revelation. The first four are known as the Gospels. The majority of the books of the New Testament are letters written by the early Church Leaders to new members of faith know at the time as The Way.
The Jewish faith does not accept the New Testament as books of their faith. Thus for a Christian the bible consist of the Old & New Testament. In short and amongst other point of faith a Christian view the Old Testament as the Prophecy of the Messiah or Jesus. New the Testament tell the Story of the fulfilment of the Old Testament Prophecy of Christ (in excess of 330) the formation of the early Church and the end revelation of Christ.
I trust this answer the questions you have posed.

Regards
Doug

Dude, I just asked you a simple question, and not for an history lesson on the canonisation process lol...

let me repeat once again "Is the NT based on the OT?"

It is a SIMPLE yes or no answer I am looking for... not some canon gymnastics on your part.

Scimi

 

[dwa2day]

I don't understand so much the reason behind the question. It is as tough the journey of the messages are unrelated. Allah Created all, and our journey as human race began with Adam pbuh. Abraham pbuh became known as the father of religion. It was rediscovered then. And all messages stemming from there grew with each Book. It is a continuation. Not borrowed from each other.

What was erred through the passage of time were corrected with the newer revelations. Then, the time came for the final messenger to do his bidding, to complete the message.

It is that simple.


eace:

Hi Greenhill
Thank you for your reply and I am sorry to read that you do not understand the reason behind the question. So let me try and explain.
Prior to joining this forum I understood the Islamic faith as strong faith that was based on a solid foundation of faith. However I understood little more than nothing about Islam and only recently learned the Jesus Christ is a key figure in Islam. This got me thinking, if Jesus is common why through history has there been so much conflict between Christianity and Islam.
Thus I have decided to find out form myself, the basis for this motivation is my belief that the love of Jesus surpasses all understanding and thus there must be common ground for unity and not conflict between our faiths. Thus my point of departure on this quest if I may call it so is the question “Is Islam based on the Bible?”
My new understanding from replies to my question are summarised as follows:
*The Quran is the supreme source for the Islamic faith and anything that stands against it is false.
*The Quran stands of its own as an unadulterated or uncorrupted literary text of the faith and is supported by the Hadeeth.
*All other faith bases text have been corrupted by man through the works of Satan and thus are false.
*The Jews and Christian literature know as the Old and New Testament in its original form confirm the *Quran but have been lost and today we have no reference to these text and therefore the Quran is correct.

Is my new understanding correct?


Regards
Doug

 

[greenhill]

Yes and no...

Is islam based on the Bible? I would have to say 'no'.

Islam is based on Allah's teachings that was conveyed throughout times captured by the Books along the way. The Bible being one of them.


eace:

 

[dwa2day]

Dude, I just asked you a simple question, and not for an history lesson on the canonisation process lol...

let me repeat once again "Is the NT based on the OT?"

It is a SIMPLE yes or no answer I am looking for... not some canon gymnastics on your part.

Scimi

Hi Scimi
My apologies for my error it was Zafran who asked the question of how many book are in the bible and thus the explanation.
Your question can not be answered in a simple yes or no, as either answer could suggest certain doctrines of the faith of the Jews and Christians as incorrect. For example if I said NO – this would imply that Christians do not embrace the teachings found in the Old Testament which I do.
If I replied yes – this would imply that the Jewish faith must embrace the teachings of the New Testament and that’s not my call to make. More to the point this would also imply that the New Testament adds other doctrines not found in the Old Testament which would also be untrue.
So therefore as already stated my answer is:-
For a Christian the bible consist of the Old & New Testament. The Old Testament is the Prophecy of the Messiah or Jesus. New the Testament tells the Story of the fulfilment of the Old Testament Prophecy of Christ the formation of the early Church and the end time revelation of Christ. And my I add here tells the story of the rejection of Jesus by the Jewish faith.
I am deeply sorry you do not like my answer and chose to ignore it, but that’s your choice.

Regards
Doug

 

[dwa2day]

The Quran is the revelation of Allah. Literal words of Allah. If anything, The Bible confirms the Qur'an,........ and you have committed idolatory.

Hi Serinity
Thank you for your reply. I understand from an Islamic view that the Quran, is the infallible word of Allah and it is supreme in regard to anything before it. Iam not questioning this foundation of faith by any means.
At the same time I do not question the foundation of the Jewish or Christian text of their faith. In the same manner as Muslim embrace the Quran and Hadeeth, it is the Jews and Christians choice what they chose to embrace as their faiths scripture. If Islam choses to reject other faiths scripture that’s ok with me. Let’s keep it there and follow the faith and text of our choice.
However this is not the case, there seems to be this unrelenting need to use biblical text and prophets to give Islam a base to work from but at the same time reject the very base it is referring to. It is like building a puzzle using pieces from two different puzzles, you just do not get the true picture.
Surly it would be better to claim the Quran refers to the Lost Books and Prophets of Faith and Keep the Jewish and Christian text out of the picture?
Your comment “The Bible confirms the Qur'an” then later “So to say that Islam is "based on" Biblical teaching, is fallacious.” I find this confusing and contradictory.
In addition “Islam is what Jesus, Prophet Musa and every single Prophet preached. They all preached Islam. The Oneness of Allah, and they all called to worship Allah, alone.“ This is purely an Islamic view and is not confirmed in any biblical text.



Regards
Doug

 

[ardianto]

Greetings Doug.

Muslims believe that God sent many messengers, sequentially. Started by prophet Adam (pbuh) and ended by prophet Muhammad (pbuh). Few of those prophets conveyed Law that we call religion. And when the new Law has come, the previous Law is not valid again.

Prophet Isa/Jesus (pbuh) was one of the prophets who conveyed Law that now called Christianity. However, after the newer Law that called Islam has come, then the previous Law is not valid again.

So, is Islam based on Biblical teaching?. The answer is no. Christianity is not base of Islamic teaching, but the previous Law from God that has been replaced by Islam.

I understand if you disagree with Muslims in this matter. But this is the Muslim's view on Bible and Christianity.

Regards
Ardianto