Is islam the fastest rowing religion? if in converts?

[vpb]

Plenty of people used to buy Backstreet Boys albums too....

That was a joke for those who didn't know.

:bravo: :bravo: :bravo: :bravo: :bravo: :bravo: :bravo::bravo::bravo::bravo::bravo::bravo:

very argumentative.

:bravo::bravo::bravo::bravo::bravo::bravo:

 

[ranma1/2]

Im not sure how fast Islam is Rowing. Ill watch the next olympics...

ok serious now. So what if it is? It sounds like its a god !"#$ measuring contest. Even is religion A is growing faster than religion B it just means that.
It does not mean A will eventually overtake B or become the dominate religion and even if it did it still does not show it to be the correct religion.

I would be interested in what these new memeber of a religion tend to be.

Say people from religion A adopt religion B , what exactly did they adopt.
Same for converts from B to A.

Also as mentioned earlier, how many of this new population are being indoctrinated as a child rather than converts? Is it just a matter of breeding faster than the other guy?

As i said I find the my religion is growing faster than yours argument to be worthless.

 

[جوري]

As i said I find the my religion is growing faster than yours argument to be worthless.

then don't participate in a topic that you find worthless. As you can see the topic was started by a non-Muslim who wanted some facts... he got some articles out of it and a whole lot of opinion. From which he can draw whatever conclusion he wishes...
end of story!

peace!

 

[Keltoi]

:bravo: :bravo: :bravo: :bravo: :bravo: :bravo: :bravo::bravo::bravo::bravo::bravo::bravo:

very argumentative.

:bravo::bravo::bravo::bravo::bravo::bravo:

Argumentative? I was using humor to illustrate the pointlessness of arguing about what religion is growing in numbers faster than another. In a religious sense it doesn't matter how many people call themselves either Muslim or Christian, but what each of us are doing as individuals.

 

[snakelegs]

In a religious sense it doesn't matter how many people call themselves either Muslim or Christian, but what each of us are doing as individuals.

so true!

 

[borboski]

Borborygmi:
What a masterful epidemiologist you are -- here are some basic facts about Muslim earnings in the U.S. should take care of how poor we are
also Most (covered up) Muslim women I know have a doctorate or equivalent pharmD.. how many Muslim women do you know?

Well I'm not an epidemologist, but I wouldn't argue the relative wealth of Muslims or other groups on the basis of how many muslim women I know. That would be utterly ridiculous. Of course - the muslim women I know are middle class, educated, affluent, but then I'm middle class, educated, and affluent so there you have it...

There's no need to be self conscious - the reason that the majority of the world's muslim population isn't because they are muslim. What I explained is just one of the factors why across the world the muslim population will be growing.

Yes, yes, I'm sure immigrants into the US do well (I'd expect this, it takes a lot of motivation and courage to migrate somewhere) - but you can't honestly believe that the world's muslim population isn't by and large living in poverty?

Interesting recent article on why the Middle East doesn't matter in the current Prospect:

We devote far too much attention to the middle east, a mostly stagnant region where almost nothing is created in science or the arts—excluding Israel, per capita patent production of countries in the middle east is one fifth that of sub-Saharan Africa. The people of the middle east (only about five per cent of the world's population) are remarkably unproductive, with a high proportion not in the labour force at all. Not many of us would care to work if we were citizens of Abu Dhabi, with lots of oil money for very few citizens. But Saudi Arabia's 27m inhabitants also live largely off the oil revenues that trickle down to them, leaving most of the work to foreign technicians and labourers: even with high oil prices, Saudi Arabia's annual per capita income, at $14,000, is only about half that of oil-free Israel.

 

[aamirsaab]

There are those who accept Islam as their religion, but this does not mean that they are practicing it.

Same goes for any religion.

The rate of growth for a religion is meaningless unless the members are practicing the teachings.

 

[Musalmaan]

Some people say that islam is the fastest growing religion cause that people choose to convert. But is that really how it is?

Everey where in the islamic world milions of christians and other people get this.
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2007\05\12\story_12-5-2007_pg7_18

Iraqs zoroastrians have all been forced to convert to islam or get killed.

Then we got the number of child births, Lebanons christians have 2 children the muslims 10.

My point is can islam be growing cause of the wrong reasons? Cause i hear of a lot of ex muslims leaving islam.

thats funny, any body could write and distribute those letter,
and i think
it is an anti-taliban plots who wants ppl. to go against taliban and suppress them and Islamic teaching through it.

ofcourse even if somebody declare himself muslim by compulsion, he is not muslim at all, for muslim is the one who himself/herself declare
"Lailaa ha ilallah Muhammad dur Rasoolullah"
"there is no diety except Allah, Muhammad is His messenger"

Islam spreads by islamic way and teachings by the will of Amighty Allah.

 

[islamirama]

Islam the Fastest Growing Religion

50,000 French Accepted Islam In 50 Years: Intelligence - IOL

Thousands Of British Elite Embrace Islam: Study

America: Islam is finding a niche in the West

Islam spreading in Christian South Africa

Islam Attracting Many Survivors of Rwanda Genocide - Washington Post

Mohammed's religion finds a place in Haiti

Islam fastest growing faith in Australia

Where the Moors Held Sway, Allah Is Praised Again - NY Times

Seattle Times: Muslim in America

Rwanda: Islam blooms in genocide's wake

Rwanda Turns to Islam After Genocide

Muslims in Western Europe - Newsweek

Newsminer: Islam in Fairbanks

Refugees attracting Americans to Islam

CNN: Fastest growing Religion Islam Cached [10Kb]

BIC News: Fastest and Misunderstood religion

Washington Report: Muslims in America

Islam Luring More Latinos - Washington Post

Islam to become 2nd largest faith practised in US - Times Of India

Islam is fastest-growing religion in U.S - The Sacramento Bee

Islam Offers Identity For Some Blacks - The Tampa Tribune

Do Muslims not belong in this Christian Europe? - Independent, UK

Making do without the mainstream - Guardian, UK

Islam 'will be dominant UK religion'

Militant Aborigines embrace Islam to seek empowerment

America Free but Immoral

Comprehensive Survey of US Muslims

Faith: Islam's third run for Europe

Unless you can bring proof to back up your statements to prove otherwise, I suggest you zip it!

END OF TOPIC!

 

[جوري]

Well I'm not an epidemologist, but I wouldn't argue the relative wealth of Muslims or other groups on the basis of how many muslim women I know. That would be utterly ridiculous. Of course - the muslim women I know are middle class, educated, affluent, but then I'm middle class, educated, and affluent so there you have it...

There's no need to be self conscious - the reason that the majority of the world's muslim population isn't because they are muslim. What I explained is just one of the factors why across the world the muslim population will be growing.

Yes, yes, I'm sure immigrants into the US do well (I'd expect this, it takes a lot of motivation and courage to migrate somewhere) - but you can't honestly believe that the world's muslim population isn't by and large living in poverty?

Interesting recent article on why the Middle East doesn't matter in the current Prospect:

Ha? Egypt has more female doctors than does the U.S. Iran has more women sitting in their equivalent house of representative than women in the U.S...
Israel is oh so advanced because all of the tax money that is funneled to them from suckers in the United States.

A Conservative Total for U.S. Aid to Israel: $91 Billion—and Counting

By Shirl McArthur
With the turmoil surrounding the presidential election essentially freezing Congress into inaction, this is probably a good time to take another look at aid to Israel. The common figure given for U.S. aid to Israel is $3 billion per year—$1.2 billion in economic aid and $1.8 billion in military aid. As impressive as this figure is, however, since it represents about one-sixth of total U.S. foreign aid, the true figure is even more remarkable. It is difficult, however, to arrive at an exact number. Much of the money the U.S. gives Israel is buried in the budgets of other government agencies, primarily the Defense Department (DOD). Other subsidies come in a form that isn’t easily quantifiable, such as the early disbursement of aid, which allows Israel to gain (and the U.S. taxpayer to lose) the interest on the unspent money.

This year’s appropriations bills for FY 2001, which began Oct. 1, 2000, include, in addition to the $2.82 billion in economic and military foreign aid to Israel, an additional $60 million in so-called refugee resettlement and $250 million in the DOD budget, plus $85 million imputed interest, for a total of at least $3.215 billion. In addition, on Nov. 14, 2000, President William Clinton sent a special request to Congress for an additional $450 million in military aid to Israel in FY 2001, plus $350 million for FY 2002.

The package also included $225 million in military aid for Egypt and $75 million in security assistance for Jordan. The $450 million for Israel is not included in these calculations, because it is unclear at this writing whether Congress will approve the package in the current political climate.


Calculating Total U.S. Aid
Unquestionably, Israel is the largest cumulative recipient of U.S. aid since World War II. Estimates for total U.S. aid to Israel vary, however, because of the uncertainties and ambiguities described above. An Oct. 27, 2000 Congressional Research Service (CRS) report, using available and verifiable numbers, gives cumulative aid to Israel from 1949 through FY 2000 (which ended Sept. 30, 2000) at $81.38 billion. On the other hand, last year the Washington Report on Middle East Affairs estimated total aid to Israel through FY 2000 at $91.82 billion.

The CRS number surely is too low, because, although it does include such things as the old food-for-peace program, the $1.2 billion from the Wye agreement, and the current subsidy for “refugee resettlement,” it does not include money from the DOD budget, on the grounds that those funds are for joint research and development projects. Nor does the CRS figure include estimated interest on the early disbursement of aid funds. Last year’s Washington Report estimate imputes an amount for “other aid” (including the DOD) that may no longer be valid, based as it is on a thorough study of three representative years. While this year’s estimate is more conservative, the results are still shockingly high.

To the CRS number of $81.38 billion through FY 2000 can be added (with details to follow):

• $4.28 billion from the DOD; and

• $1.72 billion in interest from early disbursement of aid, for a total of $87.38 billion through Sept. 30, 2000. To that can be added the $3.22 billion detailed above, giving a grand total of $90.6 billion total aid to Israel through FY 2001. Approval of Clinton’s special request for $450 million more in military aid would push the number over $91 billion.


Defense Department Funds
A search going back several years was able to identify $3.423 billion in specific DOD line items appropriated to Israel. Since that figure includes only the programs that were uncovered, it is reasonable to add 25 percent, or $856 million, to account for what was not found. The largest items in the DOD budget were $1.3 billion for the cancelled Lavi attack fighter project; $628 million for the ongoing Arrow anti-missile missile project; and $200 million for the completed Merkava tank. The fact that the U.S. military was not interested in the Lavi or the Merkava for its own use and has said the same thing about the Arrow would seem to invalidate the argument that these are “joint defense projects.”


Interest
Israel began receiving early disbursement of U.S. economic aid in 1982, and of military aid in 1991. It would be inaccurate to simply apply the rate of interest to the amount of aid, because it has to be assumed that the aid monies were drawn down over the course of the year. In 1991 it was reported that Israel earned $86 million in interest on the economic aid money deposited in the U.S. Treasury. Since the period from 1982 to 1991 was a time of relatively high interest rates, the figure of $860 million (86 x 10) seems a reasonably conservative estimate for those 10 years. For the nine years since 1991, a 6 percent rate was applied to one-half of the economic aid, for a total of $324 million over the past decade.

On the military aid, the 6 percent rate was applied to one-half of the military aid for the 10 years it has been disbursed early, for a total of $540 million.


Some Comparisons
The impressive numbers for U.S. aid to Israel become even more so when they, and the attached conditions, are compared with other Middle East countries. The roughly $3.3 billion in annual aid compares with some $2 billion for Egypt, $225 million for Jordan, and $35 million for Lebanon. Aid for the Palestinian Authority (PA) is not earmarked, but has been running at about $100 million. Furthermore, aid to the PA is strictly controlled by the U.S. Agency for International Development, and goes for specific projects, mostly civil infrastructure projects such as water and sewers.

On the other hand, the U.S. gives Israel all of its economic aid directly in cash, with no accounting of how the funds are used. The military aid from the DOD budget is mostly for specific projects. Significantly however, considering current events, one of those projects was the development of the Merkava tank, which has been encircling and firing on Palestinian towns in the West Bank and Gaza.

The only condition the congressional foreign aid bill places on military aid to Israel is that about 75 percent of it has to be spent in the U.S. In contrast with other countries receiving military aid, however, who purchase through the DOD, Israel deals directly with U.S. companies, with no DOD review.

Special mention should also be made of the details of the Wye agreement. All of the $400 million going to the PA under the agreement is economic aid, whereas all of the $1.2 billion for Israel is for military projects and programs. These include $40 million for armored personnel carriers and $360 million for Apache helicopters, again significant considering current events.


Loans, The “Cranston Amendment,” and Loan Guarantees
Currently, Israel owes the U.S. government almost $3 billion in economic and military loans. Direct government-to-government loans are included in the above numbers for total aid, because repayment of several loans has been “waived” by the U.S. Israeli officials are fond of saying that Israel has never defaulted on a loan from the U.S. Technically, this is true. The CRS report, however, notes that from FY 1994 through FY 1998 $29 billion in U.S. loans have been waived for Israel. Therefore, it is reasonable to consider all loans to Israel the same as grants.

There seems to be much confusion about the so-called “Cranston Amendment,” named after the California senator who sponsored it in 1984. The amendment said, simply, that it is “the policy and intention” of the U.S. to give Israel economic aid “not less than” the amount Israel owes the U.S. in annual debt interest and principal payments.

Since official economic aid to Israel has always been considerably higher than the annual debt repayments, this is something of a non-issue. Furthermore, since the amendment is simply a statement of policy and intent, it may not be legally binding. In any event, although the amendment was included in every aid appropriations bill through FY 1998, it has not been repeated in the FY 1999, 2000, and 2001 appropriations bills.

The amount of U.S. government loan guarantees to Israel was not included in the above numbers, because they have not cost the U.S. any money (yet), although they are listed as “contingent liabilities” (that is, they would become liabilities to the U.S. should Israel default). Nevertheless, they unquestionably have been of tangible financial benefit to Israel. The major loan guarantees issued by Washington have been $600 million for housing between 1972 and 1990; the much publicized $10 billion for Soviet Jewish resettlement between 1992 and 1997; and some $5 billion for refinancing military loans commercially. Currently, the total U.S. contingent liability for Israeli loans is about $10 billion.


The Neeman Agreement
After Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu told Congress in 1996 that he wanted to reduce the level of U.S. economic aid to Israel, Israeli Finance Minister Yaacov Neeman met with members of Congress in January 1998 to negotiate the details. After much backing and forthing, they reached agreement that Israel’s then-$1.2 billion in economic aid would be decreased annually, beginning FY 1999, by $120 million, and the $1.8 billion in military aid would be increased by half that, or $60 million.

As a little-reported part of the deal, the amount of military aid that Israel was allowed to spend in Israel would be increased by $15 million per year. From FY 1988 through 1990 Israel was allowed to use $400 million of its $1.8 billion U.S. military aid in Israel. Beginning in FY 1991 that was increased to $475 million. As a result of the Neeman agreement, beginning in FY 1999 the aid appropriations bill gave the amount to be spent in Israel as a percentage of the total, rather than a stated amount. This maneuver helped hide from U.S. defense contractors the fact that the U.S. direct subsidy to their Israeli competitors was being increased by $15 million per year. For FY 2001 the stated percentage works out to $520 million. None of this is included in the above figures, because it does not represent a direct cost to the U.S. taxpayers. It is clearly an indirect cost, however, in terms of lost tax revenue and lost business for American companies. X

Shirl McArthur, a retired foreign service officer, is a consultant in the Washington, DC area.

SIDEBAR #1


Arab Americans Lose Ground in Congress
While Arab-American candidates broke even in the 2000 elections for the House of Representatives, a major loss was suffered in the Senate, where the only Arab-American senator, Michigan Republican Spencer Abraham, was narrowly and unexpectedly defeated by former Rep. Debbie Stabenow (D-MI). Stabenow had a neutral score in this magazine’s Congressional Report Card (August/September issue), with one positive and one negative mark, although she did sign the letter to President Clinton urging the delinking of the economic sanctions against Iraq from the military sanctions.

In the House, Arab-American Reps. John Baldacci (D-ME), Chris John (D-LA), Ray LaHood (R-IL), Nick Rahall (D-WV), and John Sununu (R-NH) all were re-elected. In addition, Republican newcomer Darrell Issa was easily elected in California. Issa’s victory offset the narrow defeat of Democrat Steve Danner in Missouri for the seat previously held by retiring Rep. Pat Danner (D-MO).

Other re-elected representatives sympathetic to issues important to Arab Americans include Reps. David Bonior (D-MI), John Conyers (D-MI), Tom Davis (R-VA), John Dingell (D-MI), Dennis Kucinich (D-OH), Bob Ney (R-OH), and Dana Rohrabacher (R-CA). Unfortunately, a champion of Arab-American issues was lost when Rep. Tom Campbell (R-CA) failed in his bid to unseat Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-CA).

Other congressional election news included the surprise defeat of Rep. Sam Gejdenson (D-CT), who was the ranking Democrat on the House International Relations Committee. Although he was widely considered a good friend of Israel, Gejdenson’s report card was only slightly negative, with no positive and one negative mark. He is expected to be replaced as ranking Democrat on the committee by Rep. Tom Lantos (D-CA), also considered a strong friend of Israel. A Holocaust survivor, Lantos might be expected to be sympathetic to the plight of the Palestinians living under the heel of a brutal occupying power, but his report card showed one positive and two negative marks. Lantos also signed the letter to Clinton urging the president to “stand firm” in keeping the economic sanctions on Iraq.

Maybe things are clearer now?.. if it weren't for puppet govt. of the middle east. these so-called under educated wrapped women would have had better opportunities. the same afforded all women in Islam-- the Prophet (PBUH) used to work for a woman!
he also used to take his wife to teach her how to read and write.
Hind was a female Muslim woman who during the Muslim empire took from state funds to start her own business...Women used to go out on the battle field along side men like Om 'Omara, the first person ever to be tortured for embracing Islam was a woman... women hold a very high status in Islam.. if it weren't the case, there would be nothing stopping us Muslim women born and raised in the west from living whatever sort of life style we want... We are Muslim by choice!

if you want to associate poverty of Muslim women ergo corrupt govt. instilled and maintained by tyrants I have no problem with that... There are no Islamic state any where in the world to blame current climate on!
and nothing in Islam, that says... women go be uneducated objects.... in other words poverty befalls all middle eastern women just the same whether Muslims or christian for the same virtues-- and Islam has nothing to do with it! Except of course I see more Christian immigrants here from the middle east than I do Muslim ones, as they are simply granted refugee over their Muslim counterparts!

if you have something of substance to impart, please do, otherwise keep worthless opinions to yourself, or share it with like minds. They'll just be mocked here.
http://www.1001inventions.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=main.viewSection&intSectionID=309 << achievments under Islamic states. When true Islam was implemented
peace!

 

[Amadeus85]

:haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha:


proof?

There are many proofs-

- In the 20th Century, Christianity became the religion of the majority in sub-Saharan Africa. In 1900 there were 8 million. Christians (10% of the population of Africa); by 2000 there were 351 million (48.4% of the population of Africa — 60% of sub-Saharan Africa).

There are 379.4 millions christians in Africa now and 324.1 millions muslims.

http://www.gmi.org/ow/region/af/owtext.html#Pray2


3,000 Christians added daily in China

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53808


Ahmad Al Qataani أحمد القطعاني An important Islamic cleric who said about Africa: “In every hour, 667 Muslims convert to Christianity. Everyday, 16,000 Muslims convert to Christianity. Ever year, 6 million Muslims convert to Christianity."


http://albertusminimus.typepad.com/albertus_minimus/2005/11/why_dont_muslim.html

 

[islamirama]

There are many proofs-

- In the 20th Century, Christianity became the religion of the majority in sub-Saharan Africa. In 1900 there were 8 million. Christians (10% of the population of Africa); by 2000 there were 351 million (48.4% of the population of Africa — 60% of sub-Saharan Africa).

There are 379.4 millions christians in Africa now and 324.1 millions muslims.

http://www.gmi.org/ow/region/af/owtext.html#Pray2


3,000 Christians added daily in China

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53808


Ahmad Al Qataani أحمد القطعاني An important Islamic cleric who said about Africa: “In every hour, 667 Muslims convert to Christianity. Everyday, 16,000 Muslims convert to Christianity. Ever year, 6 million Muslims convert to Christianity."


http://albertusminimus.typepad.com/albertus_minimus/2005/11/why_dont_muslim.html

Let's not even go there. We know very well missionaries go to africa and offer food and bible together, no bible means no food. When you have natiosn starving to death and you give them food then they'll do whatever they have to get that food.

These same missionaries tried the same thing in india post tsunami tragedy. The local indiand refused the bible and the missionaries took their trucks of food and clothing and stuff without giving. This made the news in india's local papers. So we know what kind of "converting" christian missionary fanatics are doing...

 

[- Qatada -]

:salamext:


The basic thing is, your religions got to make sense. If it doesn't - then that shows that it's basically not the truth. And the praise is for Allaah that islaam makes the most sense, and it is the only religion accepted in the sight of God.

No soul bears the burden of another, and any person who submits to their Creator and Sustainer in the way He wants them too - their reward is with Him, whereas those who associate partners with God, and reject His Messengers' - taking a pick and mix of some while rejecting others, they are the true disbelievers. And there recompense is hell. We seek refuge in Allaah from that.

 

[جوري]

I actually stayed in Tanzania for sometime, and you wouldn't believe the tricks of the missionaries bribing the boys with bikes. Ironically one Hindu teacher came to a Muslim professor and told him to keep his Muslim kids in class and away from the missionaries and he told her, there is no compulsion in religion, if Christianity wishes to win him over with a bike, and he feels, that is the way to go then so be it...
Religion is a personal choice, a product of reflection and search-- not an act of bribery and certainly shouldn't be the fruit for desperation.
What a sad world we live in!

 

[Amadeus85]

Let's not even go there. We know very well missionaries go to africa and offer food and bible together, no bible means no food. When you have natiosn starving to death and you give them food then they'll do whatever they have to get that food.

These same missionaries tried the same thing in india post tsunami tragedy. The local indiand refused the bible and the missionaries took their trucks of food and clothing and stuff without giving. This made the news in india's local papers. So we know what kind of "converting" christian missionary fanatics are doing...

Muslim missionaries do the same thing- come to mosque, say shahada and you will get food and clothes. So where is the difference?

 

[- Qatada -]

Muslim missionaries do the same thing- come to mosque, say shahada and you will get food and clothes. So where is the difference?

The difference is that a person believes and will submit to God even if they don't get presents off others, they submit because it makes sense and they understand the purpose of why they are created - so they work hard to fulfill it in order to be rewarded by God for their efforts. And they fear a punishment from God if they turn away from the truth, because that would mean that they are taking their desires as gods besides the One who gave us life and gives us all we have when before we were nothing.

 

[Encolpius]

The difference is that a person believes and will submit to God even if they don't get presents off others, they submit because it makes sense and they understand the purpose of why they are created - so they work hard to fulfill it in order to be rewarded by God for their efforts. And they fear a punishment from God if they turn away from the truth, because that would mean that they are taking their desires as gods besides the One who gave us life and gives us all we have when before we were nothing.

But how can they know that it makes sense if they're just going through the motions and see it simply as a meaningless condition of getting the handouts without knowing why they're declaring their faith or having read or been told anything about what said declaration actually means?

Logically, isn't it both sides of the same coin?

 

[islamirama]

Muslim missionaries do the same thing- come to mosque, say shahada and you will get food and clothes. So where is the difference?

Muslims go tell about Monotheism and Islam and the right path. Christians go and give you food or bikes or something monetary and bribe you. BIG difference there!

 

[جوري]

^^This isn't an opportune time for anyone to become Muslim... Anyone who even subtly advertises for Islam is considered a "terrorist"... those who come to take their shahada under such circumstances, I'd have to believe are more interested in becoming Muslims than actual natural born Muslims.. so I hope that takes care of your theories!

peace

 

[Encolpius]

Muslims go tell about Monotheism and Islam and the right path. Christians go and give you food or bikes or something monetary and bribe you. BIG difference there!

Except it isn't because you've avoided the question.

Aaron's original post was about how certain Muslim missionaries provide food and clothes in disaster areas in return for saying shahadah. Much like how certain Christian missionaries do the same in return for also accepting a bible and suchlike.