is it time for muslims in the west to leave?

[Fishman]

Do Hijra!!! Where to... The land of the Al-Sauds?

Saudi Arabia is America's best friend in the Middle East, after Israel.

 

[Inshallah]

Canada is the best country for muslims followed by dubai. Living in america is waging your akirah, yes indeed people need to redirect themselves to a better place for muslims.

 

[Snowflake]

Depends if you consider our leaders as protectors or not. I certainly wouldn't!

They are though aren't they. In the way that they set the laws that protect us as citizens. And if war broke out then they'd def be protecting their land, which we live in. I think that makes them our protectors. Right? :?

 

[Ismahaan]

As far as I'm aware, it is not permitted for a muslim to live among non muslims. You may only travel to the land of the kufaar to give dawah for e.g.

I believe that living in a muslim country is better than living in a non-muslim country. In a muslim country you feel more peaceful and at ease, in my opinion. When I went to visit a particular muslim country, my iman increased because I was surrounded by good, religious neighbours, who lived Islam. There are so many advantages to living in a muslim country. Everytime I would hear the adhan, I felt fear in my heart for the first time. I was actually scared about death and akhira. I came back to London with a lot of iman, but it slowly began to decrease imsad

However, there's no place like London, where you have the right to practise your religion, and where you are treated like a human being. In most, if not all muslim countries, foreigners are treated like animals.

 

[Snowflake]

I agree with you 101% Ismahaan sis. I think all muslims should leave the West. We are sacrificing our deen for convenience.

 

[Dawud_uk]

assalaamu alaykum,

the problem is this, most of us would go to advice to our imams and alims in our home cities correct?

well this is like going to a muslim rock star and saying 'is music allowed?'

this is because the scholars and imams are here also, they have also made the same compromises and are perhaps in a worst position as they know the daleel which we dont and still ignore it.

as to those who asked where?
this is an individual consideration, i am considering somalia and nwfp pakistan but i doubt they would let me in pakistan given my rather publically held views regarding the apostate dog, bush's b**ch, the murteed turd busharraf.

but somalia are allowing anyone to come there, anyone at all. you just go and live there and yes it isnt entirely stable still but the warlords are now gone and i think it is the best thing for those muslims who dont have the qualifications or contacts to get into other nations.

as to woodrows comment about all going to an arab country, well i dont think anyone is saying that. as you mention yourself, most muslims are not arab and most muslims lands are not arab either. islam doesnt not equal arabism as they have their own jahiliyyah they have to get over also just like the rest of us.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah

 

[Snowflake]

assalaamu alaykum,

the problem is this, most of us would go to advice to our imams and alims in our home cities correct?

well this is like going to a muslim rock star and saying 'is music allowed?'

this is because the scholars and imams are here also, they have also made the same compromises and are perhaps in a worst position as they know the daleel which we dont and still ignore it.

lol good example! If anything imaams in the west are better off than the average citizen. They'd be the last to implement Hijrah laws. :-\

 

[Muezzin]

No offence to any of my Somali Muslim Brethren, but there is no way in heck that I want to move to war-torn Somalia. I'm of Pakistani descent, but I wouldn't want to live in Pakistan either. Islamically it's nothing special because the Government is corrupt, and the standard of living is much better in the UK, where I was born and live. In the absence of a true Islamic state that is not ravaged by war or corrupt, there's not really much incentive for Muslims in the West to emigrate.

Dubai could change my mind, but I'm unclear as to how Islamic (as opposed to secular) it is.

 

[Dawud_uk]

No offence to any of my Somali Muslim Brethren, but there is no way in heck that I want to move to war-torn Somalia. I'm of Pakistani descent, but I wouldn't want to live in Pakistan either. Islamically it's nothing special because the Government is corrupt, and the standard of living is much better in the UK, where I was born and live. In the absence of a true Islamic state that is not ravaged by war or corrupt, there's not really much incentive for Muslims in the West to emigrate.

Dubai could change my mind, but I'm unclear as to how Islamic (as opposed to secular) it is.

Do you want Drugs, Alcohol or a Russian prostitute?
No your personally!

Sorry but I should explain I know a brother who recently came back from Dubai and said that is the first thing every taxi driver asks you. Not saying such problems are not everywhere else but this brother seems to be saying it is much more prevalent there and that they’ve sold themselves totally down the tourist route and will do anything for Tourist money.

So what you are saying is even if it is obligatory for us to prepare to leave and leave when we are ready you are staying put because these lands are poor and sometimes strife ridden?

Wouldn’t the ummah have lost a lot of its greatest if they had said, I am content to live comfortably where I am and will not make hijra when the command of Allah is clear in this instance?

How can such lands be changed for the better when the better educated and now more wealthy section of the ummah stay in Darul kufr paying their taxes to the Kuffar, strengthening their jammat rather than strengthening the jammat of the muslims?

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah

 

[Muezzin]

Fair enough, but where would Muslims emigrate, realistically? Not the social or economic or academic elite, but the regular Average Joe everyday Muslims just minding their own business and making ends meet - where would they go?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not forcing anyone to stay or move or anything - people can emigrate or stay put as they please as far as I'm concerned. There's just a lack of viable alternatives, in my view.

 

[Dawud_uk]

Fair enough, but where would Muslims emigrate, realistically? Not the social or economic or academic elite, but the regular Average Joe everyday Muslims just minding their own business and making ends meet - where would they go?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not forcing anyone to stay or move or anything - people can emigrate or stay put as they please as far as I'm concerned. There's just a lack of viable alternatives, in my view.

Assalaamu Alaykum,

It is for each of us to look at our options and see where we could realistically go; many people have family associations, which would make hijra to certain countries easier. Others like myself don’t.

Me personally I am seriously looking at both NWFP and Somalia and strongly leaning towards Somalia at the moment. That doesn’t mean I am going to pack my bags and go Somalia this weekend.

It does however mean like any act of ibadah I am learning the rules of hijra, the do’s and don’ts and starting preparations so that I don’t become a burden on anywhere I move to and have something to offer them and their particular needs so I strengthen them and their country not weaken it.

Each of us has to make these calculations ourselves and prepare carefully and many people will perhaps not be able to go for genuine reasons like they health difficulties which would die or be seriously at risk if they left but if we have made all serious preparation the fear of death or loss of standard of living should not in themselves stop us from going just because we are more comfortable here in the West.

Assalaamu Alaykum,
Abu Abdullah

 

[Fishman]

Isn't Somalia an impoverished war zone at the moment, due to the civil war with the Islamic courts and the war with Ethiopia looming?

 

[Inshallah]

Muslim countries are far more corrupt than the west internally i'm not sure what you guys are talking about.

Toronto is the most multicultural city in the world and you find the least muslims here. Biggest and strongest community of north america. From 1999-2001 was voted best city in the world to live in.

I agree that living in america you are sacrificing your akirah but living in a corrupt muslim country would only do you the same.

 

[UmmSqueakster]

Isn't Somalia an impoverished war zone at the moment, due to the civil war with the Islamic courts and the war with Ethiopia looming?

One should definately visit a place before they decide to make hijra there. Somalia is quite scary :uuh:

 

[Dawud_uk]

Muslim countries are far more corrupt than the west internally i'm not sure what you guys are talking about.

Toronto is the most multicultural city in the world and you find the least muslims here. Biggest and strongest community of north america. From 1999-2001 was voted best city in the world to live in.

I agree that living in america you are sacrificing your akirah but living in a corrupt muslim country would only do you the same.

assalaamu alaykum,

the whole point is it is not halal to stop in a non-muslim land when that people are at war with muslims so canada is off the menu as they have sent troops to afghanistan to impose their way of life upon the muslims.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah

 

[snakelegs]

from the link posted by Far7an:
"The Prophet (peace be upon him) also said: “Whoever believes in Allah and His Messenger, establishes prayer, and fasts Ramadân, Allah will admit him into Paradise whether he goes forth to strive in the way of Allah or remains in the land of his birth..” If staying in the land of the unbelievers had been forbidden, the Prophet (peace be upon him) would not have given them a choice between staying or leaving."

"Ahmad also related a hadîth which is evidence for living in non-Muslim countries. The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “The countries are Allah’s countries and the people are Allah’s servants, so wherever you find good (living atmosphere), you may live.”"

 

[Inshallah]

assalaamu alaykum,

the whole point is it is not halal to stop in a non-muslim land when that people are at war with muslims so canada is off the menu as they have sent troops to afghanistan to impose their way of life upon the muslims.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah

That is so wrong, yes canada have sent troops first time in many years they are fighting in combat but 99% of the time canadians our on humanatarian missions. No doubht our prime minister is a jerk but he doesn't speak for the rest of canada.

Don't forget your from the uk, shall i remind you what british soldiers did in abu grahib?????

What does saudi arabia or any other muslim country do to support muslims and our religion in times of need such as the war in iraq and afghanistan????? NOTHING BUT SIT ON THEIR LAZY BACKS!!!!!!!

Enough said, canada is the best whether you like it or not. Most peacefull country in the world.

 

[Dawud_uk]

That is so wrong, yes canada have sent troops first time in many years they are fighting in combat but 99% of the time canadians our on humanatarian missions. No doubht our prime minister is a jerk but he doesn't speak for the rest of canada.

Don't forget your from the uk, shall i remind you what british soldiers did in abu grahib?????

What does saudi arabia or any other muslim country do to support muslims and our religion in times of need such as the war in iraq and afghanistan????? NOTHING BUT SIT ON THEIR LAZY BACKS!!!!!!!

Enough said, canada is the best whether you like it or not. Most peacefull country in the world.

assalaamu alaykum,

the ruling doesnt change, and i know the behaviour of british soldiers but i am not going to get into a nationalistic slanging match of my nation is better than your's, that is pure asabiyyah and so forbidden to us.

yes canada is peaceful, yes canadians are relatively nice people, yes canada allows limited shariah in personal contracts and disputes, yes canada has the official happiest citizens in the world...

but yes canada has also been at the forfront of the war on islam in afghanistan and therefore the ruling still applies.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah

 

[Dawud_uk]

from the link posted by Far7an:
"The Prophet (peace be upon him) also said: “Whoever believes in Allah and His Messenger, establishes prayer, and fasts Ramadân, Allah will admit him into Paradise whether he goes forth to strive in the way of Allah or remains in the land of his birth..” If staying in the land of the unbelievers had been forbidden, the Prophet (peace be upon him) would not have given them a choice between staying or leaving."

"Ahmad also related a hadîth which is evidence for living in non-Muslim countries. The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “The countries are Allah’s countries and the people are Allah’s servants, so wherever you find good (living atmosphere), you may live.”"

hi snakelegs,

there is a context to each ahaddith (saying of the prophet Muhammad saws) and the scholars look at this and determine the truth of each matter and the context will also tell us how each ruling is meant to be applied.

needless to say there are many sayings that say you should make hijra, so the scholars have lookd at the context and said the hijra that is obligatory is the hijra that is from the lands at war with muslims, the hijra that is not obligatory is where their is no war and you can stop and promote islam where you are.

Abu Abdullah

 

[Malaikah]

the problem is this, most of us would go to advice to our imams and alims in our home cities correct?

well this is like going to a muslim rock star and saying 'is music allowed?'

this is because the scholars and imams are here also, they have also made the same compromises and are perhaps in a worst position as they know the daleel which we dont and still ignore it.

I disagree. The imams would be in a position where they are teaching Islam and giving dawah. That makes it perfectly permissible for them to stay there doesn't it?