Is the bible the word of God

[Abz2000]

this was one of my favourites, spoke volumes on their tendencies:

But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. 14Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater ****ation.
15Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
16Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor! 17Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold? 18And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty. 19Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift? 20Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon. 21And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein. 22And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.26Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first thatwhich is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.27Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.28Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
29Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous, 30And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. 31Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. 32Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. 33Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the ****ation of hell?
Matthew 23

 

[Salahudeen]

This thread MIGHT HELP YOU!! http://www.islamicboard.com/general/134308827-scholars-seek-correct-mistakes-bible.html

 

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you all,

I need the freedom to strive to be a better Christian, you need the freedom to strive to be better Muslims. We need to pray for each other that we might all achieve salvation despite all our differences and imperfections.

In the spirit of searching for One God, the creator of all that is seen and unseen.

Eric

 

[Ramadhan]

I think first and foremost is freedom to find the truth, as the truth is clear from falsehoods.

Therefore, scriptural analyses and comparisons is very important to ascertain which one is pure and which one is mixed with falsehoods.

How can we expect to be a better person as God intended if we follow falsehoods?
How can we attain salvation if we follow falsehoods?

 

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you Ramadhan;

We have our beliefs, only God knows the full truth; God chooses whom he wills. It seems that God has chosen millions of people who have lived and died a Muslim; God has chosen millions who have lived and died a Christian.

We search for justice for all people, and I pray that all people will find salvation, despite all our diffeences.

In the spirit of praying for justice and mercy for all people

Eric

 

[Ramadhan]

Eric,

It is true that nothing happens if not for God's will and that's true only God knows the full truth.

However, from your description of God, that also means God is unjust because it means humans do not have free will and God has already chosen who would be thrown to hell and paradise.

If your hypotheses is true, then atheists are also not wrong because they truly believe there is no God. But if God throw athiests to hell, then God is being unjust. Is that a christian belief?

 

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you Ramadhan;

I Believe that it is also in the Holy Qu’ran that Allah chooses whom he wills, Allah hardens the hearts of whom he wills.

I have family and friends who are agnostic and aetheist, I hope and pray that they will also find salvation. If I achieve salvation it will not be through my efforts, it will be through the grace and mercy of God, I pray for this grace and mercy for all people.

In the spirit of praying for peace and justice in our time

Eric

 

[Ramadhan]

Salam Eric,

I Believe that it is also in the Holy Qu’ran that Allah chooses whom he wills, Allah hardens the hearts of whom he wills.

It is true, but at the same time, there are also numerous ayats that explains we are commanded by Allah SWT to seek the truth and to hold fast to the truth. Allah hardens the heart of those who keep shunning truth and choose falsehoods instead. And Allah SWT give hidayah to those who seek the truth.

Now when someone has found that the scriptures they have been following have been proven beyonf any doubt whatsoever to have been changed, but still stubbornly keep following them and they are given evidence that there is a scripture that is pure, preserved, without any error, but reject it, do you think it is fair that God hardens their heart?

I have family and friends who are agnostic and aetheist, I hope and pray that they will also find salvation. If I achieve salvation it will not be through my efforts, it will be through the grace and mercy of God, I pray for this grace and mercy for all people.

It is also true that hidayah comes from Allah SWT only and one way to seek this hidayah is to ask Allah SWT directly.
Asking and praying to a creation for salvation will never grant you anything good, in this world or hereafter.

and May Allah SWT give you hidayah and guidance to the straight path. ameen.

 

[Abz2000]

Great info brother Ramadan, aren't you being a teeny bit sharp?-though i do agree the message should be made clear - we can try to say it in a softer way :embarrass so as not to make people defensive lol.

And dispute ye not with the People of the Book except with means better (than mere disputation) unless it be with those of them who inflict wrong: but say "We believe in the Revelation which has come down to us and in that which (actually) came down to you; Our Allah and your Allah is one; and it is to Him we bow (in Islam)."
Quran 29:46

We have our beliefs, only God knows the full truth; God chooses whom he wills. It seems that God has chosen millions of people who have lived and died a Muslim; God has chosen millions who have lived and died a Christian.

We search for justice for all people, and I pray that all people will find salvation, despite all our diffeences.

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew7:21

But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father,
he shall testify of me:
And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

I need the freedom to strive to be a better Christian, you need the freedom to strive to be better Muslims. We need to pray for each other that we might all achieve salvation despite all our differences and imperfections.

The importance of seeking the truth:
Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
John 8:31-32



Jesus the servant:
Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord;
neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him......
......Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me;
and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
John 13:16&20

He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
6All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
........He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many;
for he shall bear their iniquities.
Isaiah 53:3-5&11

When (Jesus) the son of Mary is held up as an example, behold, thy people raise a clamour thereat (in ridicule)!
58. And they say, "Are our gods best, or he?" This they set forth to thee, only by way of disputation: yea, they are a contentious people.
59. He was no more than a servant: We granted Our favour to him, and We made him an example to the Children of Israel.
60. And if it were Our Will, We could make angels from amongst you, succeeding each other on the earth.
61. And (Jesus) shall be a Sign (for the coming of) the Hour (of Judgment): therefore have no doubt about the (Hour), but follow ye Me: this is a Straight Way.
62. Let not the Satan hinder you: for he is to you an enemy avowed.
Quran 43

Let there be no compulsion in Faith: Truth stands out clear from Error:
whoever rejects evil and believes in Almighty God hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks.
And God heareth and knoweth all things.
Quran 2:256

Say: "O people of the Book! come to common terms as between us and you: that we worship none but Almighty God;
that we associate no partners with Him; that we erect not from among ourselves Lords and patrons other than Allah."
If then they turn back say: "Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to Allah's will)."
Quran 3:64

 

[Ramadhan]

Great info brother Ramadan, aren't you being a teeny bit sharp?-though i do agree the message should be made clear - we can try to say it in a softer way so as not to make people defensive lol.

I specifically tried to soften my tone because I was talking to br. Eric, who I know is a kind and very sincere person. But I guess I still come off as being a bit strong

 

[Amigo]

Hello,

Remember that men themselves can't communicate with words alone, words are too small to contain their message, what about God?

 

[جوري]

Remember that men themselves can't communicate with words alone, words are too small to contain their message, what about God?

Even smaller if said God commits suicide and especially so if he couldn't convey his message to his hand chosen apostles ..

 

[Amigo]

Even smaller if said God commits suicide and especially so if he couldn't convey his message to his hand chosen apostles ..

Yes. And that's a good illustration of what happens when words are considered beyond their capacity.

 

[جوري]

Yes. And that's a good illustration of what happens when words are considered beyond their capacity.

words & gods unfortunately .. a perishing god has even lesser staying power than altered erroneous words .. when both are present then what a doozy ^o)

best,

 

[Abz2000]

It wasn't suicide, and he wasn't God, i know you are referring to erroneous beliefs, but must be clarified.
(They have incurred divine displeasure): In that they broke their covenant; that they rejected the signs of Allah. that they slew the Messengers in defiance of right; that they said, "Our hearts are the wrappings (which preserve Allah.s Word; We need no more)";- Nay, Allah hath set the seal on their hearts for their blasphemy, and little is it they believe;-
156. That they rejected Faith; that they uttered against Mary a grave false charge;
157. That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.;-
but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
158. Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;-
159. And there is none of the People of the Book but must believe in him before his death; and on the Day of Judgment he will be a witness against them;-
Quran Chapter 4

i dunno why i'm posting this - but i couldn't help laughing

 

[جوري]

It wasn't suicide, and he wasn't God, i know you are referring to erroneous beliefs, but must be clarified.

It's obvious that they worship a middle eastern man who isn't god..
Jesus (p) is innocent of what they ascribe unto him.. but I was highlighting how their beliefs come across to those who reason..

 

[Ramadhan]

Remember that men themselves can't communicate with words alone, words are too small to contain their message, what about God?

I thought you believe jesus is God, and didn't he communicate in words?

 

[Ramadhan]

It wasn't suicide, and he wasn't God, i know you are referring to erroneous beliefs, but must be clarified.

I do agree with sis. bluebell.

A suicidal god was a logical conclusion to christians erroneous belief.

let me write it simple chart:

Christians believe jesus is god
god is omniscient (he knows absolutely everything past present future), and hence jesus is omniscient
god is also all powerful and therefore jesus is also all powerful
and hence jesus knew he was going to get killed and he didn't prevent it anyway even though he had the power.
So he let himself be killed. so god let himself be killed.

If that is not a definition of suicide, I don't know what is.

 

[MustafaMc]

I still have my Bible. I still read my Bible from time to time. I still think that there is some good information and good advice for living in the Bible. The Psalms and Proverbs in particular are good. I try to stick to the Old Testament and avoid the New Testament.

I still have mine from college days with a lot of underlining. I too sometimes read in it, but not for inspiration or for guidance. I look for similarities with the Quran and I read to better understand the book of the Christians. I read in the 1st 2 chapters of Galatians about Paul's claim to have received revelation directly from God and the obvious conflict with the actual disciples of Jesus. I read in Acts where Jesus is twice referred to as the 'servant of God'.

I also read my Qur'an. I still think that the Qur'an is the primary source, but I use the Bible as a backup source of inspiration.

I think that the Nation of Islam does this as well.

Regarding its use for inspiration, it is hard to distinguish the man-made portions from what could be actual revelation preserved to one degree or another. It seems that the portions where Jesus foretold the coming of the 'Comforter/Counselor' were prophecies about Muhammad (saaws) and those about false prophets as wolves in sheep clothing foretold Paul entering the scene.

*straps on body armor and helmet*

OK, fire away!

If you read in the Bible, I encourage you to use the Quran as the 'gold standard' for Divine revelation.

 

[Abz2000]

It seems that the portions where Jesus foretold the coming of the 'Comforter/Counselor' were prophecies about Muhammad (saaws),

and those about false prophets as wolves in sheep clothing foretold Paul entering the scene.

Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;
but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name?
and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Matthew 7


the beginning account of Paul's "enlightenment":

And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.

—Acts 9:7, King James Version

And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.

—Acts 22:9, King James Version​

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