Is the Holy Spirit the angel Gabriel?

[YieldedOne]

SC:
Lastly, if the Angel is sent down to John by God, and the Holy Spirit is our direct link from Jesus to us (John 14:16), doesn't that also equate the two?

Not that I see, bro. That's an unwarranted logical leap.

***********************************

Hey, SC. After you respond to Sol Invictus, it would really be good to hear your response to my question about David and Psalm 51. You said to FiveSolas that the WHOLE of Scripture needs to be taken into account. And since you are willing to bring scriptures OTHER THAN just Rev 1:1 to bear on this issue...I ask again...

When David talked about God's Holy Spirit in Psalm 51, was he specifically talking about the created angel, Gabriel? If so, upon what Scriptures do you base that?

 

[siam]

@YO
"Let me guess. There is little to no consideration of the Old Testament Prophet texts AT ALL in general Islamic discussion about the Holy Spirit...right? "

There are some scholars who feel that the words used in the Quran are specifically chosen for their meaning. These scholars feel that if God had meant something as X, he would have chosen the word for X and if he had meant Y he would have chosen the word for Y. I think such scholars have a point---so, in my opinion, when the Quran seems to use the words Angel Gabriel and the Holy Spirit interchangeably---it may be that the Holy Spirit expresses more of a "Quality"/Attribute.....

Also---the Quran discourages speculation about the Holy Spirit/Spirit so there is not much anyone will find out directly about it except what is neccessary for understanding certain concepts....Generally, for all matters, Muslims rely on the Quran to explain itself...but, as the Quran says, aquiring knowledge always makes it easier to understand.....

Judaism explains the Holy spirit (Ruach Hakodesh) as the spirit of Prophethood (it imparts knowledge/wisdom/message)
Spirit/Ruach (God's breath) is considered to be a higher state of spirituality (the state before is Nefesh---which is divided into Yetzer Hatov and Yetzer Hara---the highest state of spirituality is Neshama)---something like that.......

IMO---the Jewish understanding of the Holy Spirit as the Spirit of Prophethood would not contradict the Quran......

 

[SalamChristian]

Peace everybody

I am doing the best I can to consider the points everyone is making. It is 3 on one at the moment, so I have a lot to consider! And, I've been at classes since my last post, so that makes it even harder lol.

Let me drop some OT verses on you (here you go, YO) before I answer your questions at the bottom of my post:

"Then I heard a holy one speaking. Another holy one said to the one who was speaking, "To what period of time does the vision pertain . . ." Notice how this verse prefigures the Christ-Holy Spirit relationship as you read on:

" . . . While I, Daniel, was watching the vision, I sought to understand it. Now one who appeared to be a man was standing before me. Then I heard a human voice (i.e. like a son of man) coming from between the banks of the Ulai. It called out, "Gabriel, enable this person to understand the vision." So he approached the place where I was standing. As he came, I felt terrified and fell flat on the ground. Then he said to me, "Understand, son of man, that the vision pertains to the time of the end." As he spoke with me, I fell into a trance with my face to the ground . . . I, Daniel, was exhausted and sick for days . . . I was astonished at the vision, and there was no one to explain it." Daniel 8

"yes, while I was still praying, the man Gabriel, whom I had seen previously in a vision, was approaching me in my state of extreme weariness, around the time of the evening offering. He spoke with me, instructing me as follows: 'Daniel, I have now come to impart understanding to you. At the beginning of your requests a message went out, and I have come to convey it to you, for you are of great value in God's sight. Therefore consider the message and understand the vision:" Daniel 9

So Gabriel is the one who brings and interprets visions from God. Sounds like the Holy Spirit. Also sounds similar to Revelations.

Okay, here are tentative answers to each of your verses.

YO:

The verses about pouring filling et cetera--they are unimportant if we can prove that the Holy Spirit can take form. Luke 3:22 tells us that the Holy Spirit here takes the bodily form of a dove. Objection nullified.

Sol:

Your point is valid. I admit that it is a stumbling stone to our interpretation of God's scripture. Perhaps Gabriel is speaking mysteriously on purpose. Scripture does that often in parables, prophecies, et cetera.

Here is one thought I am entertaining (this is a preliminary thought, keep that in mind):

Gabriel etymology:

Geber(man/strength/warrior)-el(God)

Geber etymology (my thoughts)--it looks like it might be formed from:

gib(hill, height) - ruh

altogether:

gib-ruh-el = Gabriel = Jibreel (Gib can also be pronounced jib, depending on your dialect. Ancient Gideon is today called el-jib). Check out this link for more info: http://qbible.com/h/135.html

gib=hill, height, strength

ruh=spirit

el=God

Spirit of the Most High.

Also, apparently Jib/Gib has meanings of strength and manhood, but I am having a hard time looking this up and analyzing it, because I don't speak Hebrew. The only thing that I still need to place for sure is the "ruh." It may be different, because there is a slight accent difference in the characters that I am seeing, but again I am not sure. I am going to send some messages to some of the arabic speakers on the forum to see if I can find out more. I am friends with the Hebrew professor here at school to so I am going to go talk to her about it.

If I missed anything that you guys posted, let me know.

That's all I've got for tonight. I'll keep my eye on the responses to this thread, and I will do my best to answer them in my next post. I'm not saying that it is nailed down, but there is a surprising amount of evidence here brothers. There is more that I haven't said, but I want to research it before I put it on paper

Peace brothers

 

[Woodrow]

@YO
"Let me guess. There is little to no consideration of the Old Testament Prophet texts AT ALL in general Islamic discussion about the Holy Spirit...right? "

There are some scholars who feel that the words used in the Quran are specifically chosen for their meaning. These scholars feel that if God had meant something as X, he would have chosen the word for X and if he had meant Y he would have chosen the word for Y. I think such scholars have a point---so, in my opinion, when the Quran seems to use the words Angel Gabriel and the Holy Spirit interchangeably---it may be that the Holy Spirit expresses more of a "Quality"/Attribute.....

Also---the Quran discourages speculation about the Holy Spirit/Spirit so there is not much anyone will find out directly about it except what is neccessary for understanding certain concepts....Generally, for all matters, Muslims rely on the Quran to explain itself...but, as the Quran says, aquiring knowledge always makes it easier to understand.....

Judaism explains the Holy spirit (Ruach Hakodesh) as the spirit of Prophethood (it imparts knowledge/wisdom/message)
Spirit/Ruach (God's breath) is considered to be a higher state of spirituality (the state before is Nefesh---which is divided into Yetzer Hatov and Yetzer Hara---the highest state of spirituality is Neshama)---something like that.......

IMO---the Jewish understanding of the Holy Spirit as the Spirit of Prophethood would not contradict the Quran......

Among the people of the Abrahamic faiths the Jews, Muslims and Sabiens are very similar in the concept of what is meant by the "Holy spirit" it is only the Christians that have personified it and made it into part of a trinity.

 

[Woodrow]

@YO
"Let me guess. There is little to no consideration of the Old Testament Prophet texts AT ALL in general Islamic discussion about the Holy Spirit...right? "

There are some scholars who feel that the words used in the Quran are specifically chosen for their meaning. These scholars feel that if God had meant something as X, he would have chosen the word for X and if he had meant Y he would have chosen the word for Y. I think such scholars have a point---so, in my opinion, when the Quran seems to use the words Angel Gabriel and the Holy Spirit interchangeably---it may be that the Holy Spirit expresses more of a "Quality"/Attribute.....

Also---the Quran discourages speculation about the Holy Spirit/Spirit so there is not much anyone will find out directly about it except what is neccessary for understanding certain concepts....Generally, for all matters, Muslims rely on the Quran to explain itself...but, as the Quran says, aquiring knowledge always makes it easier to understand.....

Judaism explains the Holy spirit (Ruach Hakodesh) as the spirit of Prophethood (it imparts knowledge/wisdom/message)
Spirit/Ruach (God's breath) is considered to be a higher state of spirituality (the state before is Nefesh---which is divided into Yetzer Hatov and Yetzer Hara---the highest state of spirituality is Neshama)---something like that.......

IMO---the Jewish understanding of the Holy Spirit as the Spirit of Prophethood would not contradict the Quran......

Among the people of the Abrahamic faiths the Jews, Muslims and Sabiens are very similar in the concept of what is meant by the "Holy spirit" it is only the Christians that have personified it and made it into part of a trinity.

 

[siam]

"Among the people of the Abrahamic faiths the Jews, Muslims and Sabiens are very similar in the concept of what is meant by the "Holy spirit" it is only the Christians that have personified it and made it into part of a trinity. "

A Jewish Rabbi who participated in interfaith dialogues felt that of the 3 religions (Judasim, Christianity and Islam) it was Christianity that was the "odd man out". Perhaps Christians will keep this sentiment in mind when they try to decipher the OT?

 

[siam]

I found this in some of my notes----
Gabriel = strength of God
Micheal = He who is like God

The notes are old and I've forgotton the context so I can't add anymore to this......

 

[YieldedOne]

SC:
Let me drop some OT verses on you (here you go, YO) before I answer your questions at the bottom of my post:
...
So Gabriel is the one who brings and interprets visions from God.

All that this shows, Brother SC, is that an angel can be used by God to bring understanding and visions. Something in me told me that you were going to use this piece in Daniel because you've been so on the whole Gabriel thing. Surely, you see, bro, that this is more ANGELOLOGY than PNEUMATOLOGY that you're doing here. No biblically informed Christian would deny that angels can be used by God to bring revelation and interpretation of revelation. One can easily see that in OT and NT. But this is a far cry from saying the that angel Gabriel is IDENTICAL TO the Holy Spirit. How does showing that angels can bring revelation and interpretation of revelation necessarily lead to the conclusion that the the Holy Spirit is identical to the angel Gabriel.

There are some weird logical leaps being made here.

****************************************
SC:
The verses about pouring filling et cetera--they are unimportant if we can prove that the Holy Spirit can take form. Luke 3:22 tells us that the Holy Spirit here takes the bodily form of a dove. Objection nullified.

^o)

You are attempting to negate many OT prophecies about the HOly Spirit based upon the Spirit taking a bodily form? I can't even make sense of what you are saying right now. Honest to God. What ARE you saying with this?

And how come you are not answering the very simple question that I keep posing to you? Are you avoiding it for some reason? If you would please, answer my David question. Thanks.

**************************************

Siam:
Judaism explains the Holy spirit (Ruach Hakodesh) as the spirit of Prophethood (it imparts knowledge/wisdom/message)
Spirit/Ruach (God's breath) is considered to be a higher state of spirituality (the state before is Nefesh---which is divided into Yetzer Hatov and Yetzer Hara---the highest state of spirituality is Neshama)---something like that.......

IMO---the Jewish understanding of the Holy Spirit as the Spirit of Prophethood would not contradict the Quran......

Some things...
1) The neshama is the highest point (or deepest depth, take your pick) of the soul which is related to intellect and perception of God. Suprisingly enough, Christians and Jews AGREE that this level of the soul exists and is in direct contact with the God's Breath. Believe it or not.

2) The "Spirit of Prophethood" that you are talking about is INSEPARABLE from God's Presence. Biblically to speak of the Spirit of the Lord or the Holy Spirit being UPON someone, you are not merely talking about some force of something like that, but God's PRESENCE and ACTIVITY in and upon a person declaring the Wisdom, Truth, and Power of God. The Spirit is GOD'S Spirit.

*************************************

Woodrow:
Among the people of the Abrahamic faiths the Jews, Muslims and Sabiens are very similar in the concept of what is meant by the "Holy spirit" it is only the Christians that have personified it and made it into part of a trinity.

Ok. Let's try something. Let's FORGET about the Holy Spirit being personified, ok? Again, let's FORGET that. That's not being asserted right now. Now take a look at this analogy I have...God as Uncreated Self-Expressive Speaker.

Basically, the One True God is a SPEAKER who eternally expresses himself as "I Am that I Am". (The Tetragammaton, the Name of God told to Moses, etc) That is God's self-expressive word of self-understanding. God's BREATH/SPIRIT is the power that God uses for the dissemination of God's wisdom, understanding, and knowledge. It is this wisdom, understanding and knowledge that ground God's spoken words or "speech" . For our purpose, God's spoken word is God's self-declaration and self-objectification of who God is: "I Am".

Now here's the deal. I say that God has been doing this even before Creation began. In other words, just like the Quran is said to be the "uncreated speech" of God...I believe that God's own self-declaration (I Am) is uncreated spoken word as well.

Analogically speaking, you cannot have a SPEAKER without BREATH/WISDOM and SPOKEN WORD. They are three aspects of ONE PERSON'S actions. And basically the Uncreated Speaker "breathes" his Spoken Word eternally SANS Creation. Thus the "Breath" and "Spoken Word" are uncreated as well.

Please remember that NONE OF THIS is talking about either the Spirit or the Word being PERSONS. I'm not asserting that here. All I'm saying is this: It is conceivable that the Uncreated God uses his Uncreated "Breath" to utter his Uncreated Word of Self-Declaration and Self-Expression. Basically having One God who AS SPEAKING GOD acts in a triune manner.

I must state this again: This is NOT giving personality to either the Spirit or the Word as such. But it is saying that, following the purported uncreated nature of the Quran, it is not against Muslim OR Jewish metaphysics to assert that God, His Breath/Wisdom, and His self-expressive Word are all uncreated.

 

[Woodrow]

Woodrow:
Among the people of the Abrahamic faiths the Jews, Muslims and Sabiens are very similar in the concept of what is meant by the "Holy spirit" it is only the Christians that have personified it and made it into part of a trinity.

Ok. Let's try something. Let's FORGET about the Holy Spirit being personified, ok? Again, let's FORGET that. That's not being asserted right now. Now take a look at this analogy I have...God as Uncreated Self-Expressive Speaker.

Basically, the One True God is a SPEAKER who eternally expresses himself as "I Am that I Am". (The Tetragammaton, the Name of God told to Moses, etc) That is God's self-expressive word of self-understanding. God's BREATH/SPIRIT is the power that God uses for the dissemination of God's wisdom, understanding, and knowledge. It is this wisdom, understanding and knowledge that ground God's spoken words or "speech" . For our purpose, God's spoken word is God's self-declaration and self-objectification of who God is: "I Am".

Now here's the deal. I say that God has been doing this even before Creation began. In other words, just like the Quran is said to be the "uncreated speech" of God...I believe that God's own self-declaration (I Am) is uncreated spoken word as well.

Analogically speaking, you cannot have a SPEAKER without BREATH/WISDOM and SPOKEN WORD. They are three aspects of ONE PERSON'S actions. And basically the Uncreated Speaker "breathes" his Spoken Word eternally SANS Creation. Thus the "Breath" and "Spoken Word" are uncreated as well.

Please remember that NONE OF THIS is talking about either the Spirit or the Word being PERSONS. I'm not asserting that here. All I'm saying is this: It is conceivable that the Uncreated God uses his Uncreated "Breath" to utter his Uncreated Word of Self-Declaration and Self-Expression. Basically having One God who AS SPEAKING GOD acts in a triune manner.

I must state this again: This is NOT giving personality to either the Spirit or the Word as such. But it is saying that, following the purported uncreated nature of the Quran, it is not against Muslim OR Jewish metaphysics to assert that God, His Breath/Wisdom, and His self-expressive Word are all uncreated.

If I am understanding you correctly you are now speaking in terms of attributes of one person, not seperate identities. A diamond may have may facets(attributes) but it takes all of the facets to make the one diamond. Allaah(swt) has unlimited attributes, most beyond our comprhension, but not one of the attributes is a seperate identity nor worshiped as a seperate being. All of the attributes are included in the one name Allaah(swt) and the one and only entity who is God(swt)

 

[YieldedOne]

Hmmm...gotta say a little more on the analogy above.

It seems like the major issue that Islam has with the idea of a necessarily triune uncreated reality is the concept of multiple PERSONS being uncreated. To Islam, having three uncreated personalities EQUALS tri-theism, plain and simple. I totally understand that.

AT THE SAME TIME...

If we are talking about God, His Breath/Wisdom, and His self-expressive Word/Speech being uncreated and necessarily triune (insofar as the Uncreated God is a speaking, self-understanding, self-expressing personal being), I don't see anything that denies the UNITY and ONENESS of God in that analysis. As long as full personhood is not attributed to either the Spirit of God or the Word of God, I don't see any problems that Muslims should have with that. Especially since Muslims already believe in uncreated "speech" of God ala the Quran without thinking that is any threat to God's unity and oneness.

Thus, ONE Uncreated God is a necessarily triune uncreated reality insofar as God eternally self-expresses as Speaker.

No tritheism. No negation of God's singularity. None of that.

 

[YieldedOne]

Woodrow:
If I am understanding you correctly you are now speaking in terms of attributes of one person, not seperate identities. A diamond may have may facets(attributes) but it takes all of the facets to make the one diamond.

EXACTAMUNDO!!!

:rock:

What this asserts is that the "facets" of the God's Breath and God's self-expressive Word are as uncreated as the Speaking God they belong to!!! :statisfie

 

[Sol Invictus]

yielded, how does your analogy not lead to modalism? is this merely the limits of human knowledge as it comes to any manner of expressing the trinity or should we take your analogy at face value. when god says that he is one unitarianism is taken for granted and not proven.

do you agree that the trinity is defined as the single being who is god being eternally existent as three persons?

 

[SalamChristian]

YO:

I'm not seeing where psalm 51 refutes the hypothesis at hand. I'm do apologize for missing this one--I answered all of your other quotations from the OT but I missed this one. I did say in my last post to tell me if I missed anything, though, because I had so much to respond to. Glad you did.

But what is the point about psalm 51 that you are making? I'm not seeing it. Is it something to do with "bera"?

Peace

 

[YieldedOne]

Yawn....bedtime...but before that...really quick...


Sol Invictus:
yielded, how does your analogy not lead to modalism? is this merely the limits of human knowledge as it comes to any manner of expressing the trinity or should we take your analogy at face value. when god says that he is one unitarianism is taken for granted and not proven.

Modalism (Sabellianism) states that the triunity of God's uncreated reality is only a PERCEPTUAL DISTORTION on the part of created believers. It states that there is NO REAL DISTINCTION between God, Spirit, and Word in terms of uncreated reality. My analogy doesn't say that at all. It AFFIRMS that there is a real difference between God, His Spirit, and His Word...but also real unity in that that are all aspects of the ONE self-understanding, self-expressing, speaking personal God. They are not 3 different "masks" for the same reality.


***************************************************

Sol Invictus:
do you agree that the trinity is defined as the single being who is god being eternally existent as three persons?

Personally, I believe in the Nicene Creed, if that's what you mean. But that's because I'm a fairly knowledgeable Christians who is very self-aware of the terms of the Creed and what it means, including the unique view of "personhood" given by the Cappadocians. I'm sure that you would agree that many (far TOO many) Western Christians are functional TRITHEISTS with respect to a dysfunctional understanding of the Trinity.

But, Sol. All of the intricacies of my personal belief is not what I'm dealing with here. I'm dealing with a concept of a necessarily triune uncreated personal being concept that is CONSISTENT with 1) Islamic metaphysics/belief and 2) Old Testament (biblical) language of what God has revealed about Himself...such that the Spirit of God and the self-expressive Word of God are BOTH seen as uncreated realities unseparably linked from the Uncreated God to whom they belong. Just because I believe that the aspects of uncreated Spirit and Word are hypostatic doesn't mean that hypostacity is INHERENT in the idea of necessarily triune uncreated personal being itself.


****************************************************
SalamChristian:
I'm not seeing where psalm 51 refutes the hypothesis at hand. I'm do apologize for missing this one--I answered all of your other quotations from the OT but I missed this one. I did say in my last post to tell me if I missed anything, though, because I had so much to respond to. Glad you did.
But what is the point about psalm 51 that you are making? I'm not seeing it. Is it something to do with "bera"?

My question is as follows, SC:

When David talked about God's Holy Spirit in Psalm 51, was he specifically talking about the created angel, Gabriel? If so, upon what relevant Scriptures do you base that?

That's it.

 

[Sol Invictus]

sorry yielded, my response was primarily directed at your agreements to the following: "If I am understanding you correctly you are now speaking in terms of attributes of one person, not seperate identities."

but anyway, i'm glad you cleared the matter up and yes, far too many people misunderstand the trinity as tritheism.

 

[SalamChristian]

My question is as follows, SC: When David talked about God's Holy Spirit in Psalm 51, was he specifically talking about the created angel, Gabriel? If so, upon what relevant Scriptures do you base that?

The Title of this thread is: Is The Holy Spirit the Angel Gabriel

My answer was yes. All of the scriptures I have quoted are available for everyone to see on this thread. If you think Psalm 51 fits that category, then my answer would be yes.

Peace

 

[siam]

Hmmm...gotta say a little more on the analogy above.

It seems like the major issue that Islam has with the idea of a necessarily triune uncreated reality is the concept of multiple PERSONS being uncreated. To Islam, having three uncreated personalities EQUALS tri-theism, plain and simple. I totally understand that.

AT THE SAME TIME...

If we are talking about God, His Breath/Wisdom, and His self-expressive Word/Speech being uncreated and necessarily triune (insofar as the Uncreated God is a speaking, self-understanding, self-expressing personal being), I don't see anything that denies the UNITY and ONENESS of God in that analysis. As long as full personhood is not attributed to either the Spirit of God or the Word of God, I don't see any problems that Muslims should have with that. Especially since Muslims already believe in uncreated "speech" of God ala the Quran without thinking that is any threat to God's unity and oneness.

Thus, ONE Uncreated God is a necessarily triune uncreated reality insofar as God eternally self-expresses as Speaker.

No tritheism. No negation of God's singularity. None of that.

Some of your comments are interesting YO...and perhaps I will give them more thought......however, the above about triune uncreated reality might be problematic....unless I am misunderstanding "reality". William Chittick quotes Mutahari in explaining---God is "the reality that is dependent upon no other reality, but upon whom all other realities depend, through whose will all other realities have come into being, and who has not come into being through any other principle"

Therefore...there is only One God and One reality........

 

[YieldedOne]

SalamChristian:
The Title of this thread is: Is The Holy Spirit the Angel Gabriel
My answer was yes. All of the scriptures I have quoted are available for everyone to see on this thread. If you think Psalm 51 fits that category, then my answer would be yes.

Wait a sec. I know that you think that you are defending this fairly well. But there's a lot to be desired, bro. For real. If you were to try to defend this at a seminary, this would be shot down faster than an enemy aircraft. Not trying to be mean, just real. Much of your argumentation seems based off of at best circumstantial evidence that you are trying desperately to make stick.

For example, if you really think that David ACTUALLY and SPECIFICALLY MEANT the angel Gabriel when he prayed to God in that Psalm, you are going to have to produce some evidence that DAVID actually thought that way. Go to the life and times of David to see if there is any indication that he truly believed that the Holy Spirit (that he didn't want taken away from him by God) was SOLELY Gabriel, a created angel. You can't just quote Daniel (which mentions Gabriel) and actually think that answers this question, because it doesn't. Really. You can't just read stuff back INTO him, you know.

If you think that your argumentation is convincing, I sure can't stop you from believing that. But I will say this: if you want other intelligent, informed Christians to go with this, you've got a bit to go, bro. Mad love, homie.

*******************************************************
Siam:
Some of your comments are interesting YO...and perhaps I will give them more thought......however, the above about triune uncreated reality might be problematic....unless I am misunderstanding "reality". William Chittick quotes Mutahari in explaining---God is "the reality that is dependent upon no other reality, but upon whom all other realities depend, through whose will all other realities have come into being, and who has not come into being through any other principle"
Therefore...there is only One God and One reality........

Look closely at what Woodrow said. He straight up nailed it.

If I am understanding you correctly you are now speaking in terms of attributes of one person, not seperate identities. A diamond may have may facets(attributes) but it takes all of the facets to make the one diamond.

We ARE talking about One God and One uncreated reality. I'm just saying that that ONE uncreated reality has a necessarily triune dimension insofar as God is a speaking, self-understanding, self-expressing personal being ("I Am that I Am") sans Creation. Please remember that most Muslims believe in uncreated "speech" (ala the Quran)...while that doesn't constitute any type of dualism in the uncreated. So, since that's the case, there should be absolutely no problem with what I'm suggesting.

 

[SalamChristian]

We ARE talking about One God and One uncreated reality. I'm just saying that that ONE uncreated reality has a necessarily triune dimension insofar as God is a speaking, self-understanding, self-expressing personal being ("I Am that I Am") sans Creation. Please remember that most Muslims believe in uncreated "speech" (ala the Quran)...while that doesn't constitute any type of dualism in the uncreated. So, since that's the case, there should be absolutely no problem with what I'm suggesting.

To add something to this side discussion, this ayah is in Al-Isra:

Yusuf Ali:
"Say: Cry unto Allah, or cry unto the Beneficient, unto whichsoever ye cry (it is the same). His are the most beautiful names." 17:110

LOL, and here is another great ayah from the Qu'ran which fits right into our main discussion:

"They will ask thee concerning the Spirit. Say: The Spirit is by command of my Lord, and of knowledge ye have been vouchsafed but little." 17:85

Peace

 

[SalamChristian]

Peace everybody,

if you want other . . . Christians to go with this, you've got a bit to go, bro.

I know. I haven't proved that

David ACTUALLY and SPECIFICALLY MEANT the angel Gabriel

as you said.

I have proved a lot of stuff that my Christian detractors originally contradicted in the process of this discussion, however. And, looking at everything that I have proved, I am now going to make a very solid argument that the Holy Spirit resides within the Angel Gabriel, as it resides within Jesus and all other Holy beings, and that a great amount of textual evidence exists that Gabriel is the preferred transmitter of it from Heaven, and that he was the one who transmitted it onto Mary at the birth of Jesus.

The Spirit is transmitted from the breath/touch of a being which is already filled with it:
Luke 3:22--Jesus receives the Holy Spirit from one like a dove
Acts 19:17--Paul transmits the Holy Spirit by laying on of hands
John 20:22--The Apostles receive the Holy Spirit from the breath (spirit) of Jesus.

The Spirit can (and should be) received more than once, until you are filled with it:
Luke 3:22, Matt 3:17--Jesus is baptized with the Spirit so that he may be "filled" with all righteousness, after he was already born by it
John 20:22/Acts 2--The 11 original Apostles receive the Holy Spirit first from Jesus, and then they receive it and are "filled" at Pentecost

(YO, this fits in with our discussion on the Mystic Thread of Christ "emptying" himself and also the "sacrifice of a broken spirit" of Psalm 51)

The Spirit is transmitted by Holy beings, and also non-human beings (and also Humans, i.e. Paul):
Luke 3:22--a bodily form like a dove transmits the Spirit to Jesus
Revelations 1:1--an angel transmits the Spirit to John

The Angel Gabriel transmits the Holy Spirit to Daniel, so that he may prophesy and understand visions:
Daniel 8, 9 (notice the laying on of hands and the trance state)

An Angel exists who has the power to fill with the Holy Spirit:
The Angel of Revelations calls out to John, and John is in the Spirit, again experiencing visions, Revelations 4:1-2

LASTLY, if we take the text literally, then Gabriel's visit to Mary and Elizabeth in the text specifically states that Gabriel transmits the Holy Spirit on Mary via embrace:
Luke 1:35: "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the Power of the Most High will overshadow/embrace you."

The name Gabriel does mean Power/Strength/Might/Force of the Most High (among other senses), and he stands in the presence of God. Indeed, this is probably why Hebrew speaking Jews accepted the claim in Enoch that Gabriel "presides over all that is powerful" as scripture. Indeed, the Greek "dunamis" literally means power/(physical)strength/might, which are all meanings within the umbrella term "geber," "gabor," "gabrah" which Gabriel is built from, giving a lot of weight to this linguistic analysis, as they share numerous connections and not simply a peripheral one. As I said earlier, Gabriel=Geber(Power/Might/Strength/Force)-el(God).

We are left with a framework built upon sound exegesis conclusively proving that the Holy Spirit does reside in Gabriel, that it is transmitted by an Angel, one like a dove, Jesus, Paul, and even Gabriel himself. Lastly, Gabriel seems to be the preferred transmitter of this message from heaven, excepting the one like a dove (providing that we don't conclude that is Gabriel too), and Jesus intends to send the Holy Spirit to the Apostles from him more than once.

Peace