Is the ONE GOD of Islam the same as the GOD of the Bible?

[Trumble]

ye I know, but certainly orthodox or protestant they worship Mary. one of them.

Neither do. The Orthodox tradition certainly venerates Mary, but adherents do not 'worship' her.

 

[vpb]

Neither do. The Orthodox tradition certainly venerates Mary, but adherents do not 'worship' her.

oh yes they do. one of them certainly do.

 

[Amadeus85]

Here i want to show proofs that the Bible contain the historical truth based on archeological works. I know that it is bit out of topic but still interesting.

Evidence for the authenticity and accuracy of the Bible began to surface virtually the instant archaeologists started to scratch the surface of the biblical lands in the mid-1800s.

One of the earliest of these scientific explorers was the American Edward Robinson. He identified the location or ruins of literally hundreds of biblical towns and cities by a remarkably simple method: He simply talked to the Arab inhabitants, who had preserved the traditional names of the locations in their own tongue for centuries! Subsequent excavations at many of these sites have proven they were correct; the names were indeed passed on accurately over many generations.

Shortly after Robinson's first forays into the Holy Land, English, German and French excavators began to explore ruins in what is today Iraq. Their finds were staggering. They uncovered not only the great cities of the Assyrian and Babylonian empires mentioned in the Bible, but palaces and monuments of the very kings recorded in the Scriptures. Some even contained accounts of military campaigns that matched the Bible's, as well as carvings depicting the actual battles. (See "The Mighty Assyrian Empire Emerges From the Dust,")

Another major shock to those who maintained that the Bible was myth was the 1876 discovery of proof of an entire empire that had been lost to history. Though they are mentioned 47 times in the Bible, many scholars had come to regard the Hittites as simply a fable.

However, the discovery of inscribed clay tablets at a Turkish site led to an excavation that uncovered a fortified citadel, five temples, enormous stone sculptures and a room containing more than 10,000 tablets.

Says archaeologist and author Randall Price: "Once they were finally deciphered it was announced to the world that the Hittites had been found! [The site] had in fact been the ancient capital of the Hittite empire . . . The rediscovery of this lost people, one of the most outstanding achievements in Near Eastern archaeology, now serves as a caution to those who doubt the historicity of particular biblical accounts" (The Stones Cry Out, 1997, p. 83).

By no means are these the only people and empires mentioned in the Bible whose existence has since been proved by the archaeologist's spade. As more sites have been explored, many more peoples and even specific individuals recorded in the Scriptures have been verified as real.

As recently as a decade ago, some argued that Israel's most famous king, David, was but a myth. The record of the Bible wasn't good enough, they insisted; proof of his existence must be found elsewhere.

In 1993 that proof emerged when Israeli archaeologists discovered an inscription that referred to the royal dynasty David founded. Recorded on a monument some 150 years after David's death, the inscription commemorates the victory of the king of Damascus over the forces of Israel and their king, who was "of the house [dynasty] of David" (see "An Ancient Inscription Proves David Was Real," page 5).

Over the years dozens of artifacts and inscriptions bearing the names of individuals mentioned in the Bible have been uncovered. In 1982 a cache of 51 ancient baked-clay seals that were used to bind papyrus or parchment scrolls was uncovered in a Jerusalem excavation. One bore the impression of the seal of "Gemaryahu [Gemariah] the son of Shaphan." This same "Gemariah, the son of Shaphan," was a scribe in the court of Judah's king Jehoiakim as mentioned in Jeremiah 36:10-12,25-26.

In 1975 another hoard of seals emerged, apparently uncovered in unauthorized digging in Jerusalem. One bore the name of Ishmael, the man who assassinated Gedaliah, the governor appointed by the Babylonians after they destroyed Jerusalem (2 Kings 25:25).

Even more surprising, another seal bore the name "Berekhyahu [Baruch] son of Neriyahu [Neriah] the scribe." This man was none other than "Baruch the scribe," trusted friend, confidant and scribe of Jeremiah the prophet (Jeremiah 36:4-32; 43:1-6; 45:1-2).

As if that were not astounding enough, another seal in a private collection in England was found to bear not only Baruch's name but a fingerprint along one edge-apparently Baruch's own fingerprint from when he impressed his seal into the soft clay some 2,600 years ago!

These are only a few of the finds that prove specific people mentioned in the Bible-many only in an incidental way-were indeed real and lived at the exact time and in the exact location in which the Bible places them. A complete list of such finds would fill many pages of this magazine.

What about the critics' assertion that the Bible couldn't have been written when it claimed to be because the ancient Hebrews didn't know how to write at that time? This assumption was demolished in 1979 when, in the course of excavating a tomb in Jerusalem from the seventh century B.C., archaeologists discovered two tiny gray cylinders.

The objects turned out to be silver foil amulets covered with delicately etched Hebrew characters. When deciphered they were found to contain most of the words of the blessing recorded in Numbers 6:24-26. This remarkable find proved that not only did the ancient Hebrews know how to write centuries earlier than critics said they did, but one of the oldest portions of the Bible was obviously in use at a time well before the critics maintained it had been written!

http://www.ucgstp.org/lit/gn/gn039/bible.html

 

[vpb]

first,
recently in america they made the new "translation" of the bible, where many verses where changed slightly their meaning in the name of translation. in order to change all verses referring to jews as criminals and bad people to verses that speak softly about jews.

if you want more information on this, just shout I'll show u the whole story including the verses. I just wanted briefly to explain since I gotta go to get some sleep now.


second,



http://www.religioustolerance.org/john_8.htm
http://members.aol.com/JAlw/trinity_forgery.html
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/F...16/errors.html
http://www.awitness.org/column/forge...esy_bible.html

http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/l...y/ch1.2.5.html
http://www.medmalexperts.com/POCM/index.html
http://societies.csc.tcd.ie/~theo/inaug.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osiris-Dionysus
http://www.hermetic.com/sabazius/dionysus.htm

(credits for these links go to 'Philosofer')




I hope these two points are enough evidence to show that even now, let alone before, bible gets changed. I don't want to offend anyone, but since you made the post about "archaeological facts" , than I have to respond I don't want to go really on detail about bringing proof about bible, cuz it's not the intention of this forum to do so .

 

[Amadeus85]

first,
recently in america they made the new "translation" of the bible, where many verses where changed slightly their meaning in the name of translation. in order to change all verses referring to jews as criminals and bad people to verses that speak softly about jews.

Recently , in the same USA a muslim woman made a new "translation" of the Quaran, in which she changed or remove all the verses about mistreating of women, killing unbelievers, non-equality between men and women, mistreating of Jews, violent Jihad etc .
So according to your point of view, we have 2 Quarans now.

 

[vpb]

Recently , in the same USA a muslim woman made a new "translation" of the Quaran, in which she changed or remove all the verses about mistreating of women, killing unbelievers, non-equality between men and women, mistreating of Jews, violent Jihad etc .
So according to your point of view, we have 2 Quarans now

hahahhhahhahahahahahahhaha , do you realize that the Quran translated is not Qur'an any more??

Quran = in Arabic
Translation of Qur'an = in English.

So according to your point of view, we have 2 Quarans now.

hahahah where??? there is one Qur'an in arabic that I know. I don't know any other Qur'an.

it's so sad when you try to apply such things to Qur'an

 

[vpb]

btw, I forgot to mention. those changes in Bible where made by American Bible Society sponsored by the American Interfaith Institute

 

[Amadeus85]

hahahhhahhahahahahahahhaha , do you realize that the Quran translated is not Qur'an any more??

Quran = in Arabic
Translation of Qur'an = in English.



hahahah where??? there is one Qur'an in arabic that I know. I don't know any other Qur'an.

it's so sad when you try to apply such things to Qur'an

But this american muslim woman still claims that she translated Quaran, she is even a muslim scholar and she would highly disagree with you.

Salaam

 

[vpb]

But this american muslim woman still claims that she translated Quaran, she is even a muslim scholar and she would highly disagree with you.

I told you Qur'an translated is not Qur'an anymore.
They can make 100 translations, even let them take verses off , let them make it 2 chapters. Still the Qur'an remains in arabic. Every single muslim in the world uses the same Qur'an which is in arabic. I haven't come across one single muslim who had a different Qur'an (in arabic).
lolll. She has to disagree with all the scholars that existed on the face of this earth, and with muslims, and even with non-muslims too.


btw, who is this famous woman scholar that I dont know of?


hahahhah omg

i think you better edit your posts, so nobody sees them cuz they;re hilarious.

 

[Amadeus85]

I told you Qur'an translated is not Qur'an anymore.
They can make 100 translations, even let them take verses off , let them make it 2 chapters. Still the Qur'an remains in arabic. Every single muslim in the world uses the same Qur'an which is in arabic. I haven't come across one single muslim who had a different Qur'an (in arabic).
lolll. She has to disagree with all the scholars that existed on the face of this earth, and with muslims, and even with non-muslims too.


btw, who is this famous woman scholar that I dont know of?


hahahhah omg

i think you better edit your posts, so nobody sees them cuz they;re hilarious.

I will finish with you tommorrow, because now im going to sleep
Sweet dreams dude :thankyou:

 

[vpb]

I will finish with you tommorrow, because now im going to sleep

Sweet dreams dude

hahaha what are you going to finish?? finish telling about "this scholar who changed the Qur'an" by making a different translation??? ;D;D;D

Recently , in the same USA a muslim woman made a new "translation" of the Quaran, in which she changed or remove all the verses about mistreating........

haha. u know I thought alapiana was keeping the record, but seems u broke it tonight. You're in the first place now

 

[MustafaMc]

Erm, when exactly do you speak to Christians? If you speak to them in the streets or on the board or when they teach you then of course the only think they will mainly speak to you about is the Trinity. It's a da'wah thing for them.




Do they worship The creator? If you want me to show you they do then I will, if they do then we estblish they worship Allah, but also they worship others besides Him.

They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.​

There you go, they worship the Creator, they also worship the created things besides the creator and say that the created and the creator are one. I agree, but none the less they worship the Creator AND the created. Simple.

You keep talking about the trinity and this and that, but do you agree that part of the trinity includes The Creator? I.e. that they direct some of their worship to God, The Creator, if yes, then that is it, they worship Allah but they worship others WITH Allah.

As a former Christian, I would have to agree with Br. Al Habeshi and respectfully disagree with Br. vpb. There is no question whatsoever that Christians worship Allah albeit as the Father component of the Trinity. Jesus taught the disciples how to pray in the "Lord's Prayer" Matthew 6:9-13 After this manner therefore pray ye. "Our Father who art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so on earth. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And bring us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil [one.]"

They worship Allah as the Father because they do in fact address their prayers to the Father and end their prayer with "in the name of your son, Jesus". The central point is that Christians ascribe partners with Allah by claiming that Jesus is God at the same time the Father is God and they even add a nebulous Holy Spirit to the equation.

So, yes, there is only One God to worship, but we believe that they err in saying that Jesus is as much God as the Father is.

 

[MustafaMc]

For me it is interesting. Jesus Christ seems to be the issue which is important for so many people, not only christians. Muslims say that Jesus was a muslim. Communists say that Jesus was a revolutionist. Even buddhists claim that for them Christ is something important. We all people of the world, Jews, muslims, christians, hindus, measure time according to Christ's born. For muslims Jesus will be the one who appears at the end of the world to judge people. Why Jesus, not the last muslim prophet Muhammad?

I don't know the reason, but I know that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) has already died. We Muslims believe that Jesus was not crucified or that he died otherwise, but rather he ascended to Heaven without dying. We believe that he will return to earth toward the end of time and will die before Judgement Day.

 

[MustafaMc]

Brother and according to Quaran who is responsible for creating christianity if not Allah? It was Allah who took away muslim Isa from a cross and made people believe that He died there. Christians believed that after His death, He ressurected, so Allah is responsible for creating the biggest religion in the world, and the biggest rival for islam. Where is logic in this ? Why would Allah made a faith that keeps stealing "true believers" from islam during the ages?

How can you prove that it was Allah who created Christianity as we know it today? How can you prove that it was not Satan, through Saul of Tarsus, who created Christianity to mislead people from the Straight Way?

 

[MustafaMc]

No, catholics ask Mary to intercede for them before God. Mary is important only as a mother of Christ.

Wikipedia: Hail Mary

The original Greek text of the prayer is as follows:

Θεοτόκε Παρθένε, χαῖρε, κεχαριτωμένη Μαρία, ὁ Κύριος μετὰ σοῦ. εὐλογημένη, σὺ ἐν γυναιξί, καὶ εὐλογημένος ὁ καρπὸς τῆς κοιλίας σου, ὅτι Σωτήρα ἔτεκες τῶν ψυχῶν ἡμῶν.

Mother of God and Virgin, hail, Mary full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou amongst women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, for thou hast given birth to the Saviour of our souls.

Well if someone is the "Mother of God" shouldn't she be worshipped? It seems that Christians don't properly honor Mary. As Gomer Pyle would say, "Shame, shame, shame!"

 

[Balthasar21]

The one compiled by the companions of Allaah's Messenger (peace be upon him) yes.

-------------------------------------
Uthmani Qur'an* -
- compiled by the companions of the Messenger of Allaah (peace be upon him.)

[- In the Topkapi Museum of Turkey, Istanbul today -]

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Qur...s/topkapi.html

​

If you want to continue this conversation, open a new thread please.





Peace.

For the record A copy isn't the original Ok , And Starting New Post Your Only Going To Delete Anyway ,

 

[vpb]

As a former Christian, I would have to agree with Br. Al Habeshi and respectfully disagree with Br. vpb. There is no question whatsoever that Christians worship Allah albeit as the Father component of the Trinity. Jesus taught the disciples how to pray in the "Lord's Prayer" Matthew 6:9-13 After this manner therefore pray ye. "Our Father who art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so on earth. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And bring us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil [one.]"

They worship Allah as the Father because they do in fact address their prayers to the Father and end their prayer with "in the name of your son, Jesus". The central point is that Christians ascribe partners with Allah by claiming that Jesus is God at the same time the Father is God and they even add a nebulous Holy Spirit to the equation.

So, yes, there is only One God to worship, but we believe that they err in saying that Jesus is as much God as the Father is.

but they're not saying that God is seperate in three, so we could refer the Father to Allah, but they are saying that their God is 3 personas in one being, and their God's virtues and concept is totally different from the God (Allah az) that we worship.
Very clearly we can see that we worship different God, we believe they have the same powers, they created everything etc. but they are not the same God we worship.

 

[Sinbad]

but they're not saying that God is seperate in three, so we could refer the Father to Allah, but they are saying that their God is 3 personas in one being, and their God's virtues and concept is totally different from the God (Allah az) that we worship.
Very clearly we can see that we worship different God, we believe they have the same powers, they created everything etc. but they are not the same God we worship.

Okay I have kept my mouth shut long enough. I know a lot of unecessary facts, What I am about to add is something I usually dont do.

Defend Islam...

The church edited and corrupted the bible and christianity. A lot changed, and not all of Jesus deciples managed to come in to the bible.
One of them added out was Thomas, he was the best student of Jesus. The most devouted and the one that he was closest to.

The Gospel of Thomas is a New Testament-era apocryphon completely preserved in a papyrus Coptic manuscript discovered in 1945 at Nag Hammadi, Egypt. The book was bound in a method now called Coptic binding. Unlike the four canonical gospels, which combine narrative accounts of the life of Jesus with sayings, Thomas is a "sayings gospel". It takes the less structured form of a collection of sayings attributed to Jesus (including brief dialogues), the writing down of which is attributed to Didymus Judas Thomas. The words Didymus and Thomas are both translated "twin" giving emphasis to the name Judas, a derivative of Judah. The gospel does not have a narrative framework, nor is it worked into any overt philosophical or rhetorical context.
All the texts have been available to the general public since 1975. The Gospel of Thomas has been translated, published and annotated in several languages. The original version is the property of Egypt's Department of Antiquities. The first photographic edition was published in 1956, and its first critical analysis appeared in 1959.[1]
The Gospel begins with the words, "These are the secret sayings which the living Jesus spoke and which Didymus Judas Thomas wrote down. And he said, 'Whoever finds the interpretation of these sayings will not experience death.'"
The work comprises 114 sayings attributed to Jesus. Some of these sayings resemble those found in the four canonical Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John). Others were unknown until its discovery, and a few of these run counter to sayings found in the four canonical gospels.
When a Coptic version of the complete text of Thomas was found, scholars realized that three separate Greek portions of it had already been discovered in Oxyrhynchus, Egypt, in 1898. The manuscripts bearing the Greek fragments of the Gospel of Thomas have been dated to about AD 200, and the manuscript of the Coptic version to about 340. Although the Coptic version is not quite identical to any of the Greek fragments, it is believed that the Coptic version was translated from an earlier Greek version.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Thomas#Translations

Okay here it comes, me defendeing islam+o(

Gospel of Thomas:15
Jesus said, "When you see one who was not born of woman, prostrate yourselves on your faces and worship him. That one is your father."

Jesus was only a prophet, but the corrupted church didnt want it to their corrupted bible...

May I be forgiven for aiding islam, but I could not be quiet.

 

[vpb]

prostrate yourselves on your faces and worship him. That one is your father.

isn't that what we call sujood in Islam?

 

[Phil12123]

Gospel of Thomas:15
Jesus said, "When you see one who was not born of woman, prostrate yourselves on your faces and worship him. That one is your father."

That verse does not make any sense from Christian or Muslim perspectives. From the Muslim perspective, Allah is not considered anyone's father. And from the Christian perspective, God the Father "who was not born of woman" is invisible, so "when you see" Him is not happening. Jesus, Who was "born of woman" is "the image of the invisible God" (Col. 1:15). That is why He said, "He who has seen Me has seen the Father" (John 14:9). So, I would conclude the Gospel of Thomas, or at least this verse, is spurious.