Islam a political target in Norway

[Muezzin]

Most Europeans aren't that tolerant, which is a shame really.
I'm all for giving rights to minorities, however everything should be done so the minorities remain minorities and don't attain to much political power.

That sounds kinda racist, I guess. As long as people are fully legal citizens of the countries in which they reside, they should have the same political opportunities as their fellow citizens. Denying minorities 'too much political power' is a slippery slope that ends in the F word.

There is always and opposing view on any topic.



http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1055221.ece

Trevor Phillips, the chairman of the Commission for Racial Equality, said that multiculturalism was out of date and no longer useful, not least because it encouraged “separateness” between communities.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-394631/Why-dogma-multiculturalism-failed-Britain.html

Multiculturalism has failed because people refuse to move out of the 'comfort zone' of their own community, academics have warned.

I really don't have time for this right now...

Supposing multiculturalism is a failure, the only way forward is inter-culturalism - i.e. greater dialogue and interaction between people of different cultures. In essence, people just have to get used to living peacefully with others who are different from them.

Yes, you you could be the new Jews and to prevent the what happened 60 years ago, things should be done and multiculturalism isnt helping.
I didn't say anyone should nbe kicked out, rather new ones shouldn't be let in

Impracticable, at least in the UK. There’d be political fallout were the Government to refuse entry solely on religious grounds.

Also, law-abiding EU citizens cannot be denied entry, as that would contravene their right to freedom of movement as provided by EU law.

Add to this the fact that the newest arrivals are Eastern European, and you have quite a complicated situation.

and the government should work to better integrate ones already here,

Not sure how exactly the Government could do that, but okay.

discourage religion and radicalism,

Discouraging religion on its own would open the Government to a boatload of political and legal challenges because they’d be denying citizens their rights etc.

Radicalism – they’re still trying to curb that, aren’t they?

encourage voluntary emigration of non-integrated individuals,

Extremely non-integrated individuals don’t need encouragement to emigrate, they need funding, which I’m not sure the taxpayer would want to provide.

publically support scholars who say living in Norway/Britain is kufr etc.

The Government should curb radicalism but support scholars who say living in Norway/Britain is kufr? Bit of a contradiction there, unless I misunderstood.

^that sounds unnecessarily apologetic.

Probably. It was just weird how ‘One person says X=EVERYONE says X’.

people don't have to be brothers to tolerate each other and share a community. I'm sure not all authentic norwegians treat each other like brothers.

Yeah, but there’s this subtext – religious people are put on a pedestal (when it suits their opponents to do so), and when some of those same religious people don’t treat someone as a ‘brother’, it must mean they are an ‘enemy’.

Unless I’m jumping at shadows. Which I am wont to do.

 

[Amadeus85]

That sounds kinda racist, I guess. As long as people are fully legal citizens of the countries in which they reside, they should have the same political opportunities as their fellow citizens. Denying minorities 'too much political power' is a slippery slope that ends in the F word.

So what You think about the latest plans of Muslim Brotherhood to exclude christians in Egypt for running a presidency.
What political rights would have non-muslims in future islamized Pakistan, Indonesia, Malaysia.
So far europeans seem to be very tolerant when they see their forafathers soil inhabited by people from other parts of the world. Especially comparing to burning churches, killing minorities in Egypt, Indonesia, Nigeria, Pakistan.

 

[Muezzin]

So what You think about the latest plans of Muslim Brotherhood to exclude christians in Egypt for running a presidency.

Egypt is a republic. Such plans are therefore undemocratic.

What political rights would have non-muslims in future islamized Pakistan, Indonesia, Malaysia.

I'll have to research and get back to you. Aamirsaab knows more about this sort of thing.

So far europeans seem to be very tolerant when they see their forafathers soil inhabited by people from other parts of the world. Especially comparing to burning churches, killing minorities in Egypt, Indonesia, Nigeria, Pakistan.

I didn't say they weren't tolerant. I was replying to Whatsthepoint's post. This 'forefathers' soil' stuff is kind of amusing on a certain level. In the eyes of people who hold that belief, I suppose I would be difficult to tolerate, being the British-born son of immigrants and all. Unless I sprouted from the earth, in which case I'd be easier to tolerate, because it would be somehow more 'natural', and I'd be a plant.

Burning churches and killing minorities solely because those people are of a different religion, ethnicity etc is of course wrong, inside and outside of Islam.

 

[Thinker]

Supposing multiculturalism is a failure, the only way forward is inter-culturalism - i.e. greater dialogue and interaction between people of different cultures. In essence, people just have to get used to living peacefully with others who are different from them.

I agree entirely but would add that we shouldn't have the tail wagging the dog.

 

[Muezzin]

I agree entirely but would add that we shouldn't have the tail wagging the dog.

About the tail wagging the dog... I dunno. When in Rome, do as the Romans do, but what if the Romans start copying you?

In Britain at least, it's fair to say immigrants have helped to eventually change the culture.

Particularly with regards to food.

 

[aamirsaab]

...
What political rights would have non-muslims in future islamized Pakistan, Indonesia, Malaysia.

As far as Sharia goes, non-muslims have the same political rights as muslims in an islamic state. Whether or not those countries will allow for that is upto the government officials.

 

[wth1257]

Of course!
That excludes protecting the Christian heritage with government money but religions as such should not be privileged.

The religions are privileged implicitly. I like in a secular country that just so happens to have a calendar right in line with the Protestant worship norms. Sundays are holidays and "winter" and "spring" break happen to always cover the times when protestants are celebrating their major holidays and their day of worship.

In the west a Christian lifestyle is the privileged lifestyle.

 

[Whatsthepoint]

The religions are privileged implicitly. I like in a secular country that just so happens to have a calendar right in line with the Protestant worship norms. Sundays are holidays and "winter" and "spring" break happen to always cover the times when protestants are celebrating their major holidays and their day of worship.

In the west a Christian lifestyle is the privileged lifestyle.

It is and I don't see an issue here.

 

[Whatsthepoint]

The Government should curb radicalism but support scholars who say living in Norway/Britain is kufr? Bit of a contradiction there, unless I misunderstood.

I prefer radicals who want to leave than radicals who want to change things here..

 

[wth1257]

It is and I don't see an issue here.

It wasn't to you in particular. Just the point that in many of the caseslisted Muslims wern't asking for special things, just the same religious acomidations that Christians got.

 

[Whatsthepoint]

That sounds kinda racist, I guess. As long as people are fully legal citizens of the countries in which they reside, they should have the same political opportunities as their fellow citizens. Denying minorities 'too much political power' is a slippery slope that ends in the F word.
Impracticable, at least in the UK. There’d be political fallout were the Government to refuse entry solely on religious grounds.

No, minorities as long as they are British citizens should have exactly the same rights as everyone else, however, by limiting immigration, minorities can be prevented from becoming to big.
Yes, you cant restrict entry on religious ground, but I'm sure there's a legal way to pevent new Muslims coming here.
Muslims are singled out because theyre the biggest minority, as well as the most, well, troubled one.

 

[Whatsthepoint]

It wasn't to you in particular. Just the point that in many of the caseslisted Muslims wern't asking for special things, just the same religious acomidations that Christians got.

The question is whether or not they should get them.
As I said, I don't really mind if they have their own holidays and walk around in their clothing, as long as there is no foreseeable thread for the majority population.

 

[Amadeus85]

As far as Sharia goes, non-muslims have the same political rights as muslims in an islamic state. Whether or not those countries will allow for that is upto the government officials.

Islamic state is a state governed by muslims only, so whats the use of the political rights for christians and jews if they couldnt influence the state where they live in. Unless You mean "tolerating of their existence" as political rights. And unfortunately in West our liberal morons would call us apartheid unless a muslim becomes a president, just like it was with Obama.

 

[Hamayun]

No, minorities as long as they are British citizens should have exactly the same rights as everyone else, however, by limiting immigration, minorities can be prevented from becoming to big.
Yes, you cant restrict entry on religious ground, but I'm sure there's a legal way to pevent new Muslims coming here.
Muslims are singled out because theyre the biggest minority, as well as the most, well, troubled one.

Wow!!! Just Wow!!! I always thought you were a biggot but didn't realise you were actually proud of it too..

So what about white English Muslims? I guess according to your logic they don't belong here either?

 

[wth1257]

And unfortunately in West our liberal morons would call us apartheid unless a muslim becomes a president, just like it was with Obama.

I'd love to know how you plan to support that claim.

 

[Whatsthepoint]

Wow!!! Just Wow!!! I always thought you were a biggot but didn't realise you were actually proud of it too..

So what about white English Muslims? I guess according to your logic they don't belong here either?

No, they don't, but same as with every other citizen, you can't force them out.

 

[Whatsthepoint]

Wehther they belong or not can be detrmined from their religious fervour.
You got ordinary Muslims who may go to the mosque every friday, don't eat pork and wear a hijab if they are women, I don't mind those, they can belong to the society and if that's multiculturalism, I like it.
I have an issue with overly religious people who spread their views and beliefs on others, it's not just Muslims, it's also Mormons, Catholics, but those are still more compatible with the society and find t easier to undertsand certain things that are vital to the society as well as they face hardly any prejudice from the majority, so Muslims slone ought to be singled out when it comes to immigration.

 

[Whatsthepoint]

Though I don't think religion is the factor that is causing trouble and unrest in Europe. American immigration forms probably don't inquire about the applicant's religion yet they haven't had immigration problems as Europe has.

 

[Ar-RaYYan]

^ what was the point of that? Anywas i dont think you are allowed to put videos like that in this forum! Its full of music!

 

[Whatsthepoint]

It's gone.
A good Muslim fella showed me the video.