Islam and Democracy

[Grace Seeker]

It is suspected that Al-Qaeda was behind the assassination of Benazir Bhutto and that among the reasons for this were her western leanings seen in her pro-democracy stance.

Many in the Muslim community desire Sharia law which, as I understand it, is simply the rule of God over the community. Of course, this rule would be in accordance with a Muslim interpretation of what God's will was not some other individual's or group's understanding. Thus, if an individual wanted to practice something that was contrary to the ways of Islam, say converting from Islam to another religion, listening to music, practicing homosexuality, these things would not be tolerated in a pure Islamic state ruled by Sharia law (I understand that no such state presently exists anywhere).

On the other hand, in a democracy (which I don't think a pure democracy exists anywhere either), one of the principals is that even the views of the minority are to be tolerated. So, a person can switch endlessly, even mindlessly between any number of religions, can listen to the most disgusting music, and can practice all sorts of sexual relationships (even those thought by others to be perversions) as long as doing so does not harm or infringe on the rights of another.

Thus to me it appears that perhaps, though there are many Muslims that seem to value many democratice ideals, that in the end Islam and democracy are actually antithetical to one another. Would you accept this as a true assessment?

 

[Isambard]

They only value democratic ideals when they are at the mercy of a motivated majority. Such as a country thinking about banning hijabs, see how muslims root for individual rights.

In any other case, muslims should dictate everyone else's life because obviously they know better.

 

[Fishman]

They only value democratic ideals when they are at the mercy of a motivated majority. Such as a country thinking about banning hijabs, see how muslims root for individual rights.

In any other case, muslims should dictate everyone else's life because obviously they know better.

I would disagree. If I had an Islamic State and there were Sikhs, or Jews in it, for example, I would let them follow their religion freely. So would many Muslims I think. There is a difference between a Western country banning the Hijab and a Muslim country banning revealing clothing. In the west, wearing a headscarf is not considered dirty or immoral. Plenty of old ladies with no connection to Islam or Muslims wear one. The problem that some westerners have with the Hijab (the headscarf, not the veil) is more to do with being intollerant of 'strange' cultures and religions, a form of Xenophobia much like racism. Like racism people who are intollerant of the Hijab try to justify themselves with concerns about it affecting women's rights, or their 'National Identity'.
By contrast, wearing revealing clothes is considered offensive and morally repungant in a Muslim country. Restrictions on revealing clothes are not similar to western restrictions on Islamic clothing, but rather more similar to western concerns about public nudity, prostitution or drinking in public places. A Christian nun in a wimple and gown, a western man in a suit and tie or a Sikh in their turban should in theory be perfectly acceptable in an Islamic Society, but a Muslim belly-dancer girl would not.

 

[Belief_is_Power]

Islam and Democracy are incompatible. Decomcracy says, do what ever you want. islam says obey your creator. In a democracy you can cheat on your wife/husband and get away with it. In Islamic law this sort of foolishness would not be tolerated. Under islamic law even minorities have rights, and protection.

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

I don't know the answer to this question. I've seen different opinions about it. I've got a feeling there might be a sticky somewhere about this. I'll have a look for it in a minute.

Edit: Here it is.

Perhaps this is one of those issues where there is disagreement among Muslims?

Peace

 

[Uthman]

Greetings,

There is another thread on the topic of whether Islam is compatible with democracy here.



Regards

 

[Cognescenti]

Islam and Democracy are incompatible. Decomcracy says, do what ever you want. islam says obey your creator. In a democracy you can cheat on your wife/husband and get away with it. In Islamic law this sort of foolishness would not be tolerated. Under islamic law even minorities have rights, and protection.

You have a serious misunderstanding of the concept of democracy. Democracy doesn't say "do whatever you want". Democracy refers only to the method of government. You are describing cultural differences not the logical consequence of democracy. I might add your description of Western cultural values is highly offensive and dare I say, Kuffarphobic but that is another topic.

There are many states in the US that have provisions for legal punishment of adultery. It doesn't involve stoning to death or beheading or other such pleasantries but in some cases it is a felony.


This one is rich..."Under islamic law even minorities have rights, and protection." Apparently, that doesn't refer to Koreans, eh?

 

[guyabano]

Decomcracy says, do what ever you want.

Huh ? Where you got this one? In an democracy, we also obey to strict laws, just with the difference, that these laws have been made by humans, not by any God. In Christianity, you also have the ten commandments, which many christians also obey voluntary, because it is simply their faith.

 

[Uthman]

Greetings,

This one is rich..."Under islamic law even minorities have rights, and protection." Apparently, that doesn't refer to Koreans, eh?

Why not? Are you referring to some historical event that I'm not aware about?

Regards

 

[Omar_Mukhtar]

quote;This one is rich..."Under islamic law even minorities have rights, and protection." Apparently, that doesn't refer to Koreans, eh?

clutching @ straws

 

[wilberhum]

Islam and Democracy are incompatible. Decomcracy says, do what ever you want. islam says obey your creator. In a democracy you can cheat on your wife/husband and get away with it. In Islamic law this sort of foolishness would not be tolerated. Under islamic law even minorities have rights, and protection.

IMHO you got one thing right.

Islam and Democracy are incompatible.

But that is the only accurate statement in your post.

 

[snakelegs]

i think they are incompatible, altho islam has its own form of democracy.
in a democracy, as we know it, man is the highest arbitrator and in islam it is god.
this is why it is much more difficult to challenge the rulers in a theocracy - because they do what they do wrapped in the flag of god.

 

[Belief_is_Power]

yeah yeah yeah, some states might have laws against adultry but the punishments aren't jail time or even a fine. Oh yeah and the ten commandments have punishments also, but todays christians are to afriad to carry them out.

 

[wilberhum]

yeah yeah yeah, some states might have laws against adultry but the punishments aren't jail time or even a fine. Oh yeah and the ten commandments have punishments also, but todays christians are to afriad to carry them out.

Afraid? :skeleton:

I think you get confused between fear and rational thought. :-\

 

[KAding]

Depends on how you define democracy. An Islam state can never be a "liberal democracy" IMHO, in which individual liberty is thought to be most important. But that does not mean that Islam is hostile to mechanism such as elections to select a ruler or parliament. And on all matters on which there is no divine law there is room for the rule of the majority.

All in all I think there is room for a narrow form of 'democracy' on the executive level, ie. at the level of the rulers, where policy is made. Consultation of the people and participation by the people appear to be encouraged in Islam.

However, there is very little room for popular intervention in law making. The will of the people can NEVER overrule the will of God. So when making laws individual liberty is simply not the prime concern, nor is popular opinion.

 

[KAding]

A question.

In an Islamic state, who interprets Islamic Law? The Muslim community as a whole, ie. the people? The ruler, like a Caliph? Or a class of scholars, who are selected based on their education?

 

[wonderweasel]

"In any other case, Muslims should dictate everyone else's life because obviously they know better."

What planet do you live on??

The last time I checked those of Islamic faith are still flawed, sinful humans (just like the rest of us).

I can't think of any group, religion etc. that "knows better".

Theocracy is the worst form of government known to man (that includes any and all religions not just Islam).

Just 'cause you profess a faith in Islam, Christianity, Hinduism etc... does not cure you of being a flawed human being!! Remember some of the worst atrocities committed by man was in the name of God.

 

[Uthman]

Greetings,

"In any other case, Muslims should dictate everyone else's life because obviously they know better."

What planet do you live on??

The last time I checked those of Islamic faith are still flawed, sinful humans (just like the rest of us).

I can't think of any group, religion etc. that "knows better".

Theocracy is the worst form of government known to man (that includes any and all religions not just Islam).

Just 'cause you profess a faith in Islam, Christianity, Hinduism etc... does not cure you of being a flawed human being!! Remember some of the worst atrocities committed by man was in the name of God.

Isambard (who you quoted from) is actually an atheist. He was being sarcastic when he said that.

Regards

 

[Grace Seeker]

"In any other case, Muslims should dictate everyone else's life because obviously they know better."

What planet do you live on??

You need to read that statement in context. Isambard was speaking with his tongue firmly planted in his cheek.

 

[Cognescenti]

Greetings,



Why not? Are you referring to some historical event that I'm not aware about?

Regards

It's more of a "current event"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_South_Korean_hostage_crisis_in_Afghanistan

Of course...you will tell me they Talibums weren't following the tenants of Islam.