Islam extremists,,are they blessed Muslims or cursed Muslims?

Im not talking about anything specific, im speaking generally. I dont know whether the stuff im told is true or not, so id rather not say anything.
 
Ninth_Scribe said:
Well, as I said before, if it's in defense (eg: a country attacks them in the name of something else... like democracy), I'm having a hard time buying the line that they willfully commited harm.

Ninth Scribe
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You can't use Iraq as an example. I wouldn't say beheading a charity worker, innocent builders or even Iraqi civilians would be an act of defence.
 
England said:
You can't use Iraq as an example. I wouldn't say beheading a charity worker, innocent builders or even Iraqi civilians would be an act of defence.
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It can't be defended no matter how one dresses it up - It was barbaric!
 
Maybe an interesting thing to add here is that we have a different defenition of extreme then in the west. According to the Islamic view, everything that is prescribed by religion is the standard way of living. Following the rules of our creature is following our very nature. So following Islam cannot be extreme by defenition. So extreme is only that which goes beyond the Islamic rules. (for example if a person would fast every day of the year). But an extremist from the western p.o.v. is someone who goes to great extend to follow his religion/ideology (and the standards of what is a great extend might be different according to different people)

So an extremist by the muslim defenition (somebody does more then he is supposed to, and more then he is allowed to) would be cursed, as his extremism is in violation with his belief.
But an extremist according to the western defenition, someone who goes to a great extend to follow his religion would be a blessed person as he tries to do as many good things as he can.

This is why I object to the media referring to terrorists as Muslim extremists. Just cause someone is extreme (from western p.o.v.) does not mean he is a terrorist.

If you would suddenly come to realize that this world is a test and that you are constantly at war with Satan who tries to make you fail. And if you would be convinced that depending on the outcome of this test you would have eternal hell or heaven. I would then not ask you if you would be willing to try follow the rules to beat Satan, since that would be pretty obvious (based on the earlier assumptions of the hypothesis). the real million-dollar-question would be: "how radical are you prepared to be for that cause?
 
D.Y.R#7XTRUST said:
Islam extremists,,are they blessed Muslims or cursed Muslims? I mean the ones that take the Quran literally. The ones who believe they have done well in Allahs eyes by destroying a so called idol or a system that wars against theirs.

What do you believe?
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you mean a muslim who follows the Quran and example of the prophet Muhammad saws as his only guide and who therefore defends and if necessary destroys another system that is attacking or threatening them constantly and destroys idols like the giant statues in afghanistan?

such a muslim is a good muslim, though Allah knows what is in his heart and whether he is true or just pretending. such a muslim is however following the commands of Allah and his messenger saws so therefore is a good muslim.

Abu Abdullah
 
England said:
You can't use Iraq as an example. I wouldn't say beheading a charity worker, innocent builders or even Iraqi civilians would be an act of defence.
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Your tune might change if the situation were reversed. If say, England was attacked and they offered money to it's starving citizens for turning in the soldiers (these who turn you in would be... civilians). But that's the old argument.

Here's something new. What makes you so sure the Mujahideen commited every act they are being accused of? I know they had nothing to do with the bombing of the Askyara mosque, and I'm closing in fast on who was responsible for that (like lightening). Also, are you aware of the fact that because the people there are starving and freezing cold or boiling hot, many of them have formed criminal gangs who are only after money? This problem of mistaken identities was actually addressed by the MSC.... or do you not hear out both sides?

You know, I was willing to name these men my enemies. I would have done that - if it weren't for the rediculous number of lies I've found circulating about them. When an administration has to resort to games of deception, their idea of truth can no longer be trusted. At least not by me! I would rather deal with an honest enemy than a lying leader... any day.

Exactly 25 years from now, you'll know more than what the tabloids are telling you.

Ninth Scribe
 
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Dawud_uk said:
you mean a muslim who follows the Quran and example of the prophet Muhammad saws as his only guide and who therefore defends and if necessary destroys another system that is attacking or threatening them constantly and destroys idols like the giant statues in afghanistan?

such a muslim is a good muslim, though Allah knows what is in his heart and whether he is true or just pretending. such a muslim is however following the commands of Allah and his messenger saws so therefore is a good muslim.

Abu Abdullah
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I was very sad to see the destruction of the statues. They were not idols, but were historical treasures. I'm sorry the Muslims felt they should be destroyed, but I expect that's exactly what happens when a people feel they are continuously threatened. Everything becomes a threat to them.

I do understand. I had the same reaction when I saw the statue of Suddam Hussein.

Ninth Scribe
 
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Ninth_Scribe said:
I was very sad to see the destruction of the statues. They were not idols, but were historical treasures. I'm sorry the Muslims felt they should be destroyed, but I expect that's exactly what happens when a people feel they are continuously threatened. Everything becomes a threat to them.

I do understand. I had the same reaction when I saw the statue of Suddam Hussein.

Ninth Scribe
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The Taliban didn't destroy the statues because they felt "threatened", they destroyed this because of their religious doctrine.
 
Keltoi said:
The Taliban didn't destroy the statues because they felt "threatened", they destroyed this because of their religious doctrine.
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for once keltoi we agree!

it is an act of worship to destroy the false idols
 
Ninth_Scribe said:
So, if given the opportunity, would you destroy the great pyramid at Giza?

Would you destroy the Taj Mahal?

Ninth Scribe
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yes and yes though they are not false idols. they are raised graves.

raised graves were also ordered to be destroyed lest it lead to people overly respecting the dead occupant later which could lead to people disbelieving by thinking the dead occupant had some special status with Allah so should be used as in intermediary.

the danger of not doing this can be shown in many different muslim lands as well as over the whole catholic controlled world where people visit saints to ask for their blessings and intercession with Allah.

This is disbelief so to stop it Rasoolullah saws ordered that raised graves be destroyed.
 
Ninth_Scribe said:
I see. So the shrines in Iraq? These are raised graves, or does this just apply to the cultures that existed before Islam?

Ninth Scribe
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yes those also. it is not the grave within which is destroyed, that is respected as someone's grave but the structure around it is destroyed yes.
 
Dawud_uk said:
yes those also. it is not the grave within which is destroyed, that is respected as someone's grave but the structure around it is destroyed yes.
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We were sitting on one of the walls over-looking the tomb of Ezra. Azrael asked me why this place was holding up my progress (writing). I said: It's because of Zarqawi. I hopped down from the wall and walked toward the structure. If he finds out about this place... what if he blows it up?

Azrael hopped down from the wall and came to my side. He said: Well, then the sun will shine upon the land again. Maybe some flowers will grow there instead. Then he moved closer to me and said: I am not there Sheila. He whispered in my ear while pointing to my heart and said: I am right here.

OK. I suppose it makes sense...

Ninth Scribe
 
Sorry for the last post:

but this thread isn't about his guilt or innocence. It's about what they believe - how else can one decide if they are blessed Muslims or cursed Muslims?
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Piety means nothing if you’re a butcher. That’s why it matters. Who cares if you pray five times a day if you are an international terrorist wanted by half a dozen countries ?


Well, as I said before, if it's in defense (eg: a country attacks them in the name of something else... like democracy), I'm having a hard time buying the line that they willfully commited harm.
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Unless someone is attacking enemy combatants they are not defending anything. For example, Hezbollah guerillas facing off the Israeli military in a pitched battle, defense. Hamas shooting rockets into random places in Israel or blowing up school buses, not defense.



As to whether extremists are good or bad Muslims, who says they are Muslim at all ?

Christianity doesn’t claim responsibility for KKK, which was surly religious or modern WARskins who are most assuredly protestant any more then than Christianity claims responsibility for the Crusades, the Reconquesta, the Inquisition, silent consent of the slave trade, manifest destiny, noninvolvement during the holocaust, priest molestation etc. etc. etc.

For example Hitler carried a bible everywhere he went, never let it go. You’ll never hear any (non wacko) call him a Christian.

Any Muslim who doesn’t follow the Quran and Sunnah the same way these monsters ignore it, is obviously apostate.
 
FBI said:
:sl:

Define: an extrimist.
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An extremist, by definition, is one who at the extremes, i.e. outside the norms. If we are talking about a group of people who adhere to a particular faith, then extremists would be people who are outside the norms of their faith.

Rather than asking what people here think of extremists, I would like to ask my Muslim brothers and sisters if they view those who participate in car bombings of marketplaces in Baghdad, suicide bombings of buses in Israel, flying of airplanes into buildings in New York, or kidnapping of journalists in Pakistan as living within the norms and ethical values of Islam?
 
Grace Seeker said:
An extremist, by definition, is one who at the extremes, i.e. outside the norms. If we are talking about a group of people who adhere to a particular faith, then extremists would be people who are outside the norms of their faith.

Rather than asking what people here think of extremists, I would like to ask my Muslim brothers and sisters if they view those who participate in car bombings of marketplaces in Baghdad, suicide bombings of buses in Israel, flying of airplanes into buildings in New York, or kidnapping of journalists in Pakistan as living within the norms and ethical values of Islam?
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Terrorism is terrorism. It has no religious affiliation it is a self centered goal. I do not know the motivation of those people you are referring to, however, I can not think of any plausable way they could have been done as an Islamic teaching.
 
Woodrow said:
Terrorism is terrorism. It has no religious affiliation it is a self centered goal. I do not know the motivation of those people you are referring to, however, I can not think of any plausable way they could have been done as an Islamic teaching.
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Thank-you for such a clear and forthright answer. I would be interested in hearing other answers, especially from those who perhaps live in predominantly Muslim countries.
 

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