Islam in Europe

[north_malaysian]

From Muslim source:-

* Albania - 2,240,000 (70.00%)
* Andorra - 630 (0.63%)
* Armenia - 120,000 (4.00%)
* Austria - 190,000 (2.23%)
* Azerbaijan - 7,845,600 (93.40%)
* Belgium - 380,000 (3.60%)
* Belorussia - 10,000 (0.10%)
* Bosnia-Herzegovina - 2,340,000 (60.06%)
* Bulgaria - 910,000 (11.87%)
* Croatia - 130,000 (3.00%)
* Cyprus - 230,000 (23.00%)
* Czech Republic - 20,000 (0.20%)
* Denmark - 160,000 (3.02%)
* Estonia - 10,000 (0.70%)
* Finland - 10,000 (0.18%)
* France - 6,120,000 (10.00%)
* Georgia - 900,000 (20.00%)
* Germany - 3,050,000 (3.70%)
* Greece - 170,000 (1.50%)
* Hungary - 10,000 (0.10%)
* Iceland - 120 (0.04%)
* Ireland - 410 (0.01%)
* Italy - 1,420,000 (2.40%)
* Latvia - 10,000 (0.38%)
* Liechtenstein - 1,372 (3.43%)
* Lithuania - 4,760 (0.14%)
* Luxembourg - 10,000 (1.10%)
* Macedonia - 600,000 (30.00%)
* Malta - 4,400 (1.10%)
* Moldova - 10,000 (0.20%)
* Monaco - 150 (0.50%)
* Netherlands - 890,000 (5.40%)
* Norway - 50,000 (1.04%)
* Poland - 40,000 (0.10%)
* Portugal - 50,000 (0.50%)
* Romania - 220,000 (1.00%)
* Russia - 27,040,000 (19.00%)
* Serbia and Montenegro - 2,000,000 (19.00%)
* Slovakia - 1,080 (0.02%)
* Slovenia - 30,000 (1.55%)
* Spain - 550,000 (1.20%)
* Sweden - 280,000 (3.10%)
* Switzerland - 230,000 (3.10%)
* Turkey - 72,754,200 (99.80%)
* Ukraine - 210,000 (0.45%)
* United Kingdom - 1,510,000 (2.50%)

Source: http://www.islamicpopulation.com/europe_islam.html

 

[Danah]

subhan Allah al athem.

people think that the wrong view for islam form Europe will make people hate Islam. But what is happening is the opposite.
La Illaha Ila Allah


Ths an interestingarticle I have found a few days before. I would like you to share.

You would have thought that the September 11 attacks would have damaged the name of Islam forever but you know what…

It made many people study Islam to understand who exactly the Muslims are and what they’re all about. It made people go out and buy the Koran and as a result many British, Americans and non-Muslims across the world have accepted Islam! The huge interest in Islam since September 11 has brought a massive increase in conversions to Islam as never ever seen before. Now let’s check out the facts:

MASSIVE INTEREST IN ISLAM
The Observer

’Interest in Islam mounts after hijacking atrocity’

Martin Bright, Sunday September 1, 2002

“..A year ago they feared their religion would be tarred by the atrocities that left over 3,000 dead in the terrorist attacks on New York and Washington. But Muslims across Britain are now crediting an ‘11 September factor’ for the upsurge of interest in their religion.

From Islamic bookshops and university comparative religion courses to the dusty corridors of Whitehall, non-Muslims are rushing to find out more about the beliefs of Islam and the life of the Prophet Mohammed.

Sales of the Muslim holy book, the Koran, have gone through the roof. Penguin, the publishers of the best-known English-language translation of the Koran, registered a 15-fold increase in the three months following 11 September and sales have held up well since. “

MASSIVE INCREASE IN CONVERSIONS TO ISLAM

The Times

7 January 2002

‘Allah came knocking at my heart‘ by Giles Whittell

“There is compelling anecdotal evidence of a surge in conversions to Islam since September 11, not just in Britain, but across Europe and America. One Dutch Islamic centre claims a tenfold increase, while the New Muslims Project, based in Leicester and run by a former Irish Roman Catholic housewife, reports a steady stream of new converts.

These are some of Islam’s more surprising converts. They have chosen their new creed over the world’s other great religions having had the privilege of choice, often confounding their own and their families’ prejudices in the process. They are highly articulate and tolerant to a degree. They’re people like us, only they’re not. They’re Muslims. They pray five times a day, fast during Ramadan and hope to go to Mecca before they die. They answer their mobiles with salaam alaikum.”

 

[guyabano]

Of course, Islam is the fastest growing religion...ACTUALLY! History of mankind can show up with many of those religion shifting/convertings/revertings. But this can change again in 50 years.
But as it has been mentionned already many times in the forum (but somehow, people here love to ignore it), Islam is only growing so fast due to birth rate within the muslim world PLUS check the top list of those countries where Islam is growing fastest. It's mostly poor countries from Africa.
All other countries, there is also a growth, but that is more due to immigration.
You come here on the forum, you see everyday reverting somebody to Islam, and everybody is applauding. You go to a christian forum, every day, a muslim become a christian, and again, everybody cheer there.
So what is the point? For, me, there is nothing new on that.

But then comes my question: Why all theses muslims leave their countries? They are comming to the west for a better life. So, better life,, hummm, but the west is secular..hmmm. So couldn't it be, that secular systems are not soooo bad, as muslims pretend? What about this so-called decadence of the west, all women are prostitues there, etc...? But still, a lot of muslims decide to settle down in 'these' countries called Evil. But these Evil countries curiously are able to give them a good paid job and food. Then, further, muslims, once here, want again to change it and revert to whole system to Islamic law. I would call that a Step backwards.

Also, as Isambard said already, Islam will never take place in the west. That will remain a wishdreaming.
You will NOT be able to change West to Islamic as much as it will work with Christianity in Middle East. The roots are too deep on both sides.
Honestly, I like it this way. A coexistance of both will be possible. Anyway it's already working pretty fine. If both sides (muslims and christians) make efforts to allow a peaceful co-existance, and also both are ready to change some of their habits, then I see no problems.

 

[Anwarica]

Let me bring up this video again, the last part of it will prove the conspiracy.

If any non-Muslim here understand Arabic, I'm ready to show you the confession of the Christian Orthodox priests in Egypt when they say every day there's 80 to 200 Christian convert to Islam .. another Coptic thinker said, if this rate is still going, Christians will disappear from Egypt within 100 years! ..
I will tell you something funny, if you think they're forced, I will tell you that the reverse is true ^o)

Coptic Girls Converting to islam, live in fear.

2 copt girls ask 4 protection 'cause they convert to islam.
They are final year medical students, who Choosed to be muslims.. They learned that islam completes christianity, and that it answers all the questions that they were not able to find in chritianity. Copts understand Arabic and thus have the advantage to read the Quraan in its original Language.
These 2 girls are tired ,like many of the copts who wilingly accepted islam, from the extremist copts who want them back to christianity.. They are asking for protection...
Please leave them alone.. Have mercy..

Why am I posting this? to show you that even in Islamic countries, we can't even protect Christians who convert to Islam, sometimes they are reverting back to Christianity by force. This the force that people in the west think that Muslims use!
This is why I brought the first video in the post, they complete each other.

Alhumdolilah, I see the new Muslim generation way better than the past ones, I'm sure that many things will change.

Please, no one reminds me with the Egyptian scientists:
Samira Mousa

On August 5, 1952 after her first visit to America she intended to return home, but was invited to go on a trip. On the way, the bus rushed down from a height of 40 feet, which killed her immediately.

Mostafa Mosharafa

Einstein said on hearing of his death, "I can not believe that Mosharafa is dead, he is alive through his researches. We are in need of his talents, it is a great loss, he was a genius. I used to follow up his researches in atomic energy, definitely he is one of the best scientists in physics."

There's also Yahya El-Mashad, he was murdered in France, the man was working in the nuclear program in Iraq .. surely you don't see adequate English resources for those incidents because the western media likes to blackout, they only discuss whatever goes with their objectives.

As a scientist you have 2 choices .. to live in the place you are right now where no one will appreciate your work due to this international political pressure or you can travel to the west and death will be your end if you thought to return with valuable data in some fields.

I hope that a new picture of - what's going on - has been added clearly.

 

[guyabano]

You should also watch this video. This woman might be an ex-muslim, but she also call for 'everyone's free expression of religion'

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wPglHZQf-0[/media]​

 

[Anwarica]

You should also watch this video. This woman might be an ex-muslim, but she also call for 'everyone's free expression of religion'

I watched it before the responses, for the full responses of this issue:
http://www.islamicboard.com/islamic...sultan-response-you-didnt-see.html#post833972

The friend who showed me this video is a Christian, he was convinced by Sheik Ibrahim refutation .. although my friend isn't Egyptian, he didn't even know who's Wafa Sultan, he found that video after watching this video of Ummah films by brother Ali.

Quran (2:256) "There is no compulsion in religion."

 

[Amadeus85]

You will NOT be able to change West to Islamic as much as it will work with Christianity in Middle East. The roots are too deep on both sides.
Honestly, I like it this way. A coexistance of both will be possible. Anyway it's already working pretty fine. If both sides (muslims and christians) make efforts to allow a peaceful co-existance, and also both are ready to change some of their habits, then I see no problems.

See at Kosovo. Kosovo is as important for Serbs as Jerusalem is important to Jews and Mecca to muslims. 100 years ago Kosovo had christian majority. During this century due to high muslim birth rate and immigration from Albania Kosovo is in 90% muslim.

 

[guyabano]

See at Kosovo. Kosovo is as important for Serbs as Jerusalem is important to Jews and Mecca to muslims. 100 years ago Kosovo had christian majority. During this century due to high muslim birth rate and immigration from Albania Kosovo is in 90% muslim.

I'm sorry, but you cannot compare Kosovo with a nearby a whole continent.
I hardly can see banning alcoholic drink, neither porc meat, which is essential in western world beeing banned ! Specially the upcoming generation. Go tell some young teenies from nowsadays and take aways their MP3 Player and exchange it with a Quaran. Let's see what he will tell you !
When my memory is good, Spain was also in muslim hand once, today it is back chrisitan, which will not mean, it could change again.

 

[aamirsaab]

You know, if sharia law was introduced properly, you guys would love it. I emphasise properly because the majority of today's interpretation of it usually sucks.

Until then, though, I'm satisfied with living in a country that lets me practice my religion freely, gives me the right to an awesome education, experience multiculturalism at its finest and is the home of chicken tikka massala.

:thumbs_up

 

[Amadeus85]

You know, if sharia law was introduced properly, you guys would love it. I emphasise properly because the majority of today's interpretation of it usually sucks.

You just miss one important point, that there are some people in the world who really like somthing called freedom and independence.And no matter how great life you would give them under some foregin rule or occupation, those people will still feel bad. Simply because they wouldnt feel free and independent. You could watch Braveheart if you want to see what i mean.

 

[Isambard]

I watched it before the responses, for the full responses of this issue:
http://www.islamicboard.com/islamic...sultan-response-you-didnt-see.html#post833972

The friend who showed me this video is a Christian, he was convinced by Sheik Ibrahim refutation .. although my friend isn't Egyptian, he didn't even know who's Wafa Sultan, he found that video after watching this video of Ummah films by brother Ali.

Quran (2:256) "There is no compulsion in religion."

Ive only seen the first two vids, but I can already tell I wont like this guy. He makes a bunch of wacky assumptions. Ill try to post a refutetaion once I get back from school

 

[aamirsaab]

You just miss one important point, that there are some people in the world who really like somthing called freedom and independence.And no matter how great life you would give them under some foregin rule or occupation, those people will still feel bad. Simply because they wouldnt feel free and independent. You could watch Braveheart if you want to see what i mean.

Such is the insatiable nature of human beings - give them a valley of gold and they want more.

 

[Isambard]

You know, if sharia law was introduced properly, you guys would love it. I emphasise properly because the majority of today's interpretation of it usually sucks.

Until then, though, I'm satisfied with living in a country that lets me practice my religion freely, gives me the right to an awesome education, experience multiculturalism at its finest and is the home of chicken tikka massala.

:thumbs_up

Why would I love it? I would be a second-class citizen with few negative or positive rights.

Then there's the reason for it, that I am 'unable' to properly think or act for myself so I need a buch of ppl doing whats good for me.

How would this be any different than what Hittler did to the Jews prior to WW2? In both cases you have a group of folks assuming they are intellectually superior to their neighbour

 

[aamirsaab]

Why would I love it? I would be a second-class citizen with few negative or positive rights.

Off the top of my head,

1) Tax is percentage of income = more disposable income = wealthier/healthier family =stronger economy.

2) No alcohol = healthier people = more disposable income = economy sky rockets

3) Marriage before sex = decrease in premarital sex and diseases which follow, abortion rate is also decreased = less money wasted = more disposable income = stronger economy.

I'm a business man in training, so I've given business related advantages. I could give more but it really deserves its own thread.

Then there's the reason for it, that I am 'unable' to properly think or act for myself so I need a buch of ppl doing whats good for me.

What are you talking about?

How would this be any different than what Hittler did to the Jews prior to WW2? In both cases you have a group of folks assuming they are intellectually superior to their neighbour

Hitler prevented jews from having jobs - sharia law wouldn't. The biggest ''disadvantage'' in terms of business side would be no pubs. However, increased life time would overshadow this ''loss'' since the people are alive for longer, therefore can spend more, therefore more products are produced, therefore more jobs are made available, therefore the economy would rival both US and Japan combined. Keeping in mind that todays society is also very consumerist and employment is low, I can safely say that Sharia law would definately be good for the UK.

The outcome would be no more intellectually superior than present.

 

[guyabano]

You know, if sharia law was introduced properly, you guys would love it. I emphasise properly because the majority of today's interpretation of it usually sucks.

Until then, though, I'm satisfied with living in a country that lets me practice my religion freely, gives me the right to an awesome education, experience multiculturalism at its finest and is the home of chicken tikka massala.

:thumbs_up

THAT will remain your point of view. For my personal choice, I choose secular laws. I got born under, I grew up under, and now I live under.
Even though I don't drink alcohol, I would hardly accept any muslim law.
Plus, if that would happen, then we could say, that Muslims are no better then other people. They also force you to obey their laws. Muslims claim for their rights actually, but in same time, like to oblige different-thinking people to obey to their laws too ?
Somehow a nonsense, no?

 

[aamirsaab]

THAT will remain your point of view. For my personal choice, I choose secular laws. I got born under, I grew up under, and now I live under.

Like I said, if it was introduced properly, you'd love it. Granted, it may take a while.

Even though I don't drink alcohol, I would hardly accept any muslim law.

If it is what the people want, then so be it .

Plus, if that would happen, then we could say, that Muslims are no better then other people. They also force you to obey their laws. Muslims claim for their rights actually, but in same time, like to oblige different-thinking people to obey to their laws too ?
Somehow a nonsense, no?

How is this different to anyone else?

NB; this is all hypothetical - please do not send me death threats. Thank you.

 

[guyabano]

Hitler prevented jews from having jobs - sharia law wouldn't.

Please apologize, if I drift from topic, but I couldnt hold myself to post this one:

Under this famous Sharia Law, women were even not allowed to go to school in Afghanistan, even not to mention to have a job.

Or you forgot this episode?

 

[Isambard]

Off the top of my head,

1) Tax is percentage of income = more disposable income = wealthier/healthier family =stronger economy.

2) No alcohol = healthier people = more disposable income = economy sky rockets

3) Marriage before sex = decrease in premarital sex and diseases which follow, abortion rate is also decreased = less money wasted = more disposable income = stronger economy.

I'm a business man in training, so I've given business related advantages. I could give more but it really deserves its own thread.

That it does. I too am a businessman in training so I would be interested in how an Islamic state would deal with business cycles seeing as there is a ban on interest rates.

What are you talking about?

I would be unable to read certain books. Listen to some music. Hang out with my female friends alone and have a drink of two. Have the freedom to write or talk about anything I want etc.

All because a group of folks somewhere feels its bad for me irregardless of my opinion. They are assuming responsibility for me despite me not asking them to which means they assume to be superior to me.

Hitler prevented jews from having jobs - sharia law wouldn't. The biggest ''disadvantage'' in terms of business side would be no pubs. However, increased life time would overshadow this ''loss'' since the people are alive for longer, therefore can spend more, therefore more products are produced, therefore more jobs are made available, therefore the economy would totally own both US and Japan combined.

The outcome would be no more intellectually superior than present.

Shariah would keep me from getting very high in politics. Or from promoting my religion openly (assuming I had one). If I were gay, I would have to be even more worried as I would be put to death. I can also never change the laws because they are 'from God' so my input would be ignored.

In terms of business, I can see alot of problems which wouldnt be resolved unless you go to the Islamic countries of old that relied on plundering others and a slave population, both of which would be big-no-nos today. But as you said, business side of shariah is another thread altogether which id be happy to discuss once I get back from school.

Well Im off to be bored for 3hrs

 

[aamirsaab]

Please apologize, if I drift from topic, but I couldnt hold myself to post this one:

Under this famous Sharia Law, women were even not allowed to go to school in Afghanistan, even not to mention to have a job.

Or you forgot this episode?

Nowhere does it say in the Quran that women should not have an education, on the contrary, education is encouraged. This is simply Afghanistan being stupid. Sharia law is compromised of common sense in majority cases - unfortunately, today's interpretation (in a general sense) is crap and far from it's original form, though some are close.

Shariah would keep me from getting very high in politics. Or from promoting my religion openly (assuming I had one).

I'm not sure about these two statements, since my knowledge is limited. I'll do some reading though and look into it.

If I were gay, I would have to be even more worried as I would be put to death. I can also never change the laws because they are 'from God' so my input would be ignored.

Only if you commited homosexual behaviour, would you be punished. As for changing the laws; if it aint broke, don't fix it. And, to be blunt, God's law is not broken.

In terms of business, I can see alot of problems which wouldnt be resolved unless you go to the Islamic countries of old that relied on plundering others and a slave population, both of which would be big-no-nos today. But as you said, business side of shariah is another thread altogether which id be happy to discuss once I get back from school.

Make the thread and we'll discuss it in detail.

Well Im off to be bored for 3hrs

Enjoy

 

[wilberhum]

Same thing as always. Muslims think there theocracy would be Utopia and non-Muslims would love to be second class citizens under it.

It totally amazes me that anyone could be so indoctrinated that they think any one would want to be a second class citizen of any society.

Through all of recorded history people have fought for equality. Why would any one think human nature would change so much that people would start to willingly want inequality and inferiority?

But then I’m “The Defiant Dhimmi”