Islam in Europe

[Amadeus85]

Same thing as always. Muslims think there theocracy would be Utopia and non-Muslims would love to be second class citizens under it.


But then I’m “The Defiant Dhimmi”

Wilb, You really dont want to know what is the fate of tasmanian devils under shariah. :hiding:

 

[Haidar_Abbas]

^ enough said

 

[aamirsaab]

Same thing as always. Muslims think there theocracy would be Utopia and non-Muslims would love to be second class citizens under it.

No, I think Sharia law would be good for any country, provided it was implimented properly (i.e like it was at the time of the Prophet [saw]).

It totally amazes me that anyone could be so indoctrinated that they think any one would want to be a second class citizen of any society.

Noone has explained this second-class bs to me. Could someone please clarify this. As far as indoctrination goes, It's less of that and more of practical solutions to todays problems.

Through all of recorded history people have fought for equality. Why would any one think human nature would change so much that people would start to willingly want inequality and inferiority?

How would sharia law bring inequality? It's very aim is bringing justice to the people - I've given three examples earlier, all of which breed equality.

But then I’m “The Defiant Dhimmi”

And I'm too halaal for you. :giggling:

 

[Anwarica]

Ive only seen the first two vids, but I can already tell I wont like this guy. He makes a bunch of wacky assumptions. Ill try to post a refutetaion once I get back from school

I will be waiting for any refutation.

 

[wilberhum]

No, I think Sharia law would be good for any country, provided it was implimented properly (i.e like it was at the time of the Prophet [saw]).

That seams to be the problem. No one can get it right. If a country that has a Muslim majority, even 100%, can't do, it seams it can't be done.

Noone has explained this second-class bs to me. Could someone please clarify this. As far as indoctrination goes, It's less of that and more of practical solutions to todays problems.

If you have legal rights that I don't have, I call that second class. What do you call it. Just recogination of superority?
How about a pratical solution to todays problems that places Muslims as second class citizens"?

How would sharia law bring inequality? It's very aim is bringing justice to the people - I've given three examples earlier, all of which breed equality.

Is that a serious question? Any law based on religion or gender, is obviously not equality. Three examples, so. Who would assume that every single law would promote inequality? I would assume the majority of the laws are good.

And I'm too halaal for you. :giggling:

Probably not. There are few things I won't try once. :-[

 

[snakelegs]

Hitler prevented jews from having jobs

understatement of the week/month/year? ;D

actually, it would be very interesting to see what a shariah state would look like in today's world. so if a muslim country decided to opt for it, i would have no objection - in fact i think it would be quite interesting.
the thing about theocracies is that no matter how perfect its religious laws may be, they are carried out by people and it is much harder to challenge theocratic rulers.
in most muslim countries today, the majority are neither educated in islam or in secular knowledge. how would they have any ways to judge how the shariah laws were being observed and carried out?

 

[aamirsaab]

That seams to be the problem. No one can get it right. If a country that has a Muslim majority, even 100%, can't do, it seams it can't be done.

Hence I said properly

If you have legal rights that I don't have, I call that second class. What do you call it. Just recogination of superority?
How about a pratical solution to todays problems that places Muslims as second class citizens"?

From my knowledge, non-muslims are denied two things under sharia law: involvment in politics and the military. In the case of politics, the power is relevantly small anywho - it's not like they can change God's law. As for military - who would actually WANT that job?

Is that a serious question? Any law based on religion or gender, is obviously not equality.

Well, if you want to go down that road; no law system is truly equal.

Three examples, so. Who would assume that every single law would promote inequality?

Since current law is dictated by an ever-changing society, it is succeptible tp change, thus fundementally flawed. Sharia remains consistent = perfection as far as law is concerned.

I would assume the majority of the laws are good.

Don't get me wrong, most of the current laws are great. Though I do think rapists should get a much harsher sentence - but hey, that's just me.

Probably not. There are few things I won't try once. :-[

;D

understatement of the week/month/year? ;D

Ah you know what I meant!

actually, it would be very interesting to see what a shariah state would look like in today's world. so if a muslim country decided to opt for it, i would have no objection - in fact i think it would be quite interesting.

There was a program on channel 4 last week. It showed sharia law being implimented in Nigeria, I think. Though the punishments for crimes did not go down too well with the host, personally I think she was just being difficult, she did admit that crime levels were considerably low. So, I do think it is very effective - though, they seem to have a big problem when it comes with the rape law; it actually does not require 4 witnesses - that's for adultery.... which is way out of my knowledge zone.

the thing about theocracies is that no matter how perfect its religious laws may be, they are carried out by people and it is much harder to challenge theocratic rulers

True.

in most muslim countries today, the majority are neither educated in islam or in secular knowledge. how would they have any ways to judge how the shariah laws were being observed and carried out?

Good point. Though, my initial post (and many after it) have stated that provided it was implimented properly, according to how the Prophet [saw] carried it out - then it would seriously be awesome.

I also stated in my initial post, I like this country as it is

 

[wilberhum]

aamirsaab,

From my knowledge, non-muslims are denied two things under sharia law: involvment in politics and the military. In the case of politics, the power is relevantly small anywho - it's not like they can change God's law. As for military - who would actually WANT that job?

God's law is a matter of personl belief. As for the military, many want it. I'm not one of them but there are thousands here is the US that choose it. I know many who are proud of it. Even if noone wants it, the fact remains that you have legalized inequality. Mybe you concider inequality "god's law", but I sure don't.

no law system is truly equal.

Right, that's one of the benifets of a Democracy, you can work on the problem.

Sharia remains consistent = perfection as far as law is concerned.

Consistent does not = perfection any more than fish = bicycle.
IMHO that is the major problem, an antiquated system that can't be fixed.

Don't get me wrong, most of the current laws are great. Though I do think rapists should get a much harsher sentence - but hey, that's just me.

I was talking about Islamic Law. But I agree about harsher sentenseing. Though history has perty muched proven that harsher punishment is of little deturant.

I'm with Snake. It would be interesting, well as long as it is in a Muslim country. But still I don't wish that on the non-Muslims there. So I guess it should be done in KSA, I understad they are 100% Muslims. :skeleton:

 

[saladin100]

026.001 طسم
026.001 Ta, Sin, Mim.

026.002 تِلْكَ آيَاتُ الْكِتَابِ الْمُبِينِ
026.002 These are verses of the Book that makes (things) clear.

026.003 لَعَلَّكَ بَاخِعٌ نَفْسَكَ أَلا يَكُونُوا مُؤْمِنِينَ
026.003 It may be thou frettest thy soul with grief, that they do not become Believers.

026.004 إِنْ نَشَأْ نُنَزِّلْ عَلَيْهِمْ مِنَ السَّمَاءِ آيَةً فَظَلَّتْ أَعْنَاقُهُمْ لَهَا خَاضِعِينَ
026.004 If (such) were Our Will, We could send down to them from the sky a Sign, to which they would bend their necks in humility.

026.005 وَمَا يَأْتِيهِمْ مِنْ ذِكْرٍ مِنَ الرَّحْمَنِ مُحْدَثٍ إِلا كَانُوا عَنْهُ مُعْرِضِينَ
026.005 But there comes not to them a newly-revealed Message from (Allah) Most Gracious, but they turn away therefrom.

026.006 فَقَدْ كَذَّبُوا فَسَيَأْتِيهِمْ أَنْبَاءُ مَا كَانُوا بِهِ يَسْتَهْزِئُونَ
026.006 They have indeed rejected (the Message): so they will know soon (enough) the truth of what they mocked at!

026.007 أَوَلَمْ يَرَوْا إِلَى الأرْضِ كَمْ أَنْبَتْنَا فِيهَا مِنْ كُلِّ زَوْجٍ كَرِيمٍ
026.007 Do they not look at the earth,- how many noble things of all kinds We have produced therein?

026.008 إِنَّ فِي ذَلِكَ لآيَةً وَمَا كَانَ أَكْثَرُهُمْ مُؤْمِنِينَ
026.008 Verily, in this is a Sign: but most of them do not believe.

026.009 وَإِنَّ رَبَّكَ لَهُوَ الْعَزِيزُ الرَّحِيمُ
026.009 And verily, thy Lord is He, the Exalted in Might, Most Merciful.

026.010 وَإِذْ نَادَى رَبُّكَ مُوسَى أَنِ ائْتِ الْقَوْمَ الظَّالِمِينَ


Al-Qur'an, 026.001-010 (Ash-Shuara [The Poets])