Islamic Fascism....why???

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Islamicboy said:
Americans are standing by the american soldiers even though they are causing terror in iraq and afganistan.
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That's not fair. Not long ago on this forum I stood up and explained that I wanted our soldiers to stand trial for a first degree murder charge as opposed to the manslaughter charge they faced (for staging the deaths of Iraqi civilians) and that request was honored. Some of us do expect our soldiers to represent us abroad and when some of them do these things they disgrace the other soldiers.

I saw what the Mujahedeen did to our two soldiers... and it bothered me to watch that video, but I can't fault them for it. In Sicily we did worse to the bourbons for the same thing. The trouble is Green (the soldier who was involved in the rape/murder) and his buddies were the ones who deserved that. I don't know if the two who paid for their crime were even involved. I may never know that till after this world.

Look, I know you're upset and the comment bothered you. Bush bothers everyone! He's just like that.... an insensitive, mouthy, jerk.

Please don't take that poison he spewed inside you.

Ninth Scribe
 
I saw what the Mujahedeen did to our two soldiers... and it bothered me to watch that video, but I can't fault them for it.
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You can't fault them for that? The two soldiers didn't rape anyone, and did northing wrong except be at the wrong place at the wrong time.
 
lavikor201 said:
No one is saying Islam teaches fascism.
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Then it shouldn't be called 'Islamic'! That gives the impression that it has some basis in Islam.
But we are saying that there are Muslims that act like fascists some times, and these people should be condemned by other Muslims when they act without care for law or humanity.
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No disagreement there.
 
lavikor201 said:
You can't fault them for that? The two soldiers didn't rape anyone, and did northing wrong except be at the wrong place at the wrong time.
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You and I have no way to know that! As for fault, the invasion of Iraq was unlawful and the view Iraqis have of our soldiers had it's own problems because of that. After these other crimes took place - well, that uniform means something entirely different than it was supposed to. I had no choice but to write this incident as follows: Provocation was present and it was a contributing factor.

Don't like it ~ am trying to undo it all as we speak.

Ninth Scribe
 
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From wikipedia: "Islamofascism is a neologism and political epithet used to induce an association of the ideological or operational characteristics of certain modern Islamist movements with European fascist movements of the early 20th century, neofascist movements, or totalitarianism."
 
Islamic Fascists? What a weird word. If you say 'Malay Fascist' or 'Arab Fascist' it's acceptable... but Islamic fascist? What so Islamic about fascism?:rollseyes
 
north_malaysian said:
Islamic Fascists? What a weird word. If you say 'Malay Fascist' or 'Arab Fascist' it's acceptable... but Islamic fascist? What so Islamic about fascism?:rollseyes
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Well, I think the word has gained prominence, because some of the more militant Islamic movements have some features in common with fascism.

Take the wikipedia definition of fascism: "a radical totalitarian political philosophy that combines elements of corporatism, authoritarianism, extreme nationalism, militarism, anti-anarchism, anti-communism and anti-liberalism"

IMHO this is not so different from some Islamist movements:
1. They are highly nationalistic, striving to set up an Islamic state for all their Islamic brothers and sisters, fighting for all Muslims over the world. The ummah is their primary concern.
2. They are anti-liberal, anti-anarchistic and definately also anti-communism. That is quite obvious.
3. They are clearly totalitarian, in the sense that they demand that every citizen embrace their ideology. This is unlike mere dictators, who are content with control over disinterested citizens. Clearly movements like the Taliban interfere very much with the private choices of their citizens, by demanding they follow Islam fully.

The only thing that does not fit IMHO is the corporatism.
 
KAding said:
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1. They are highly nationalistic...
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I think Muslims prefer the word 'Ummatic' rather than 'Nationalistic' because some says patriotism is haraaam!!!! (which is so weird as our religious teachers been teaching us that Patriotic and Nationalistic is part of Islam... now where did I put my Malaysian flags:giggling: :giggling: :giggling: )
 
lavikor201 said:
This may sound like a dumb question...

If your a Jedi, then do you know how to use the force?

Please elaborate on your religious title.
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Yes, I can use the force.. I can read your mind.....
Your thinking of..... Nothing -- your mind is empty! :)


No, it's a joke.
I missed the opportunity to put "jedi" down on the census. I'm happy to have a second chance! I don't consider myself religious.
 
Keltoi said:
Nobody should be offended by this phrase, unless of course you agree with that philosophy.
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With all due respect, I'll decide what I should and should not be offended by.

When Tony Blair or George Bush use the phrase "Islamic fascists", they are referring to an ideology. The same ideology that promotes suicide bombs, mass murder, etc, in the name of a religion. Both men have stated numerous times in the past that the war is not against the whole of Islam, but a particular ideology.
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Then both men have the most severe case of foot in mouth disease that I've ever seen. If it's not against Islam, but against a particular ideology, why call them 'Islamic terrorists' and 'Islamic Fascists'? I'm sure in Bush and Blair's peculiar little vernacular these terms are somehow distinct from simply equating Islam with terror and fascism, but back in the real world, the masses hear terms like this, think all Muslims are fascists or potential/actual terrorists, and innocent Muslims suffer on a daily basis as a result.
 
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Muezzin said:
Then both men have the most severe case of foot in mouth disease that I've ever seen. If it's not against Islam, but against a particular ideology, why call them 'Islamic terrorists' and 'Islamic Fascists'? I'm sure in Bush and Blair's peculiar little vernacular these terms are somehow distinct from simply equating Islam with terror and fascism, but back in the real world, the masses hear terms like this, think all Muslims are fascists or potential/actual terrorists, and innocent Muslims suffer on a daily basis as a result.
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Well, because it is nevertheless rooted in Islam. Just like fascism was rooted in nationalism. Like the inquisition and crusades were rooted in Christianity. Like Stalinism (think North Korea) is rooted in socialism. Extreme version of virtually every ideology can be disasterous.
 
No such ideology exists in Islam. (Brother/Sister Hood)
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You keep talking about Islam, I keep talking about Muslims.
My remarks are about what Muslims do, not what Islam says.
 
wilberhum said:
Terrorism creates islamophobia not governments.
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You pick up on Bush talking about "Islamic Fascism", but you do not acknowledge Muslims in Pakistan and Saudi "rooting out evil", because you say that Muslims in general "will not" do such a thing. What majority of Muslims are you talking about?

You are not picking up on the pro-Islam cues. Why is that?
 
wilberhum said:
T
errorism creates islamophobia not governments.
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I disagree. Islamaphobia in the sense of Muslims being oppressed or discriminated because of their faith has existed since the time of the Prophet (peace be upon him). It's just one of those things.

However, I still object to the term 'Islamic Fascism'. There are only so many barmy political coinages one can take before pointing out their absurdity.
 
I think people got it into their head that islamic revivalism is islamic fascism.

Islamic revivalism should be in accordance with islam. Fascism is not.

What the game is being played is defining and confusing people, to lead them in devision.

This game of pointing the finger at particular muslim with words as terrorist, fascist e.t.c are for political reason, and aim against Islam.

Their are those who side against the believers and take the western goverment for freind over their own brothers and sisters and sell the deen for profit. Will happy to see islam confined to the closest.
The brothers and sisters who desire islam or oppose western terror are defined as terrorist, fascist.

The fascist and the terrorist are the western govermentd and those who side with them for a miserable profit.

I am not denying that wrong has not being carried out by some muslim, but this wrong carried by those muslim does not carry on to other muslim who are fighting western led allied forces in the middle-east.
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If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah., never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good). (3:83)
 
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The connection between global terrorism and Islam isn't simply something Bush or Blair or any world leader in the past made up to cause division or "destroy" Islam. The connection is there for all to see. That doesn't mean I believe that Islam itself is to blame for terrorism. The point is that a fairly large segment of the Islamic population, many in Western nations, have been programmed and radicalized to commit terrorist acts, in the name of religion. Islamic fascism, while understandably not a popular phrase amongst most Muslims, is spot on in defining the ideology we are talking about. I do not want everyday Muslims to feel the backlash caused by a radical and murderous segment, a fairly large segment globally, of the Islamic faith. However, the first step in confronting a problem is to name the problem.
 

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