Islamic Fascism....why???

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I disagree. Islamaphobia in the sense of Muslims being oppressed or discriminated because of their faith has existed since the time of the Prophet (peace be upon him). It's just one of those things.

However, I still object to the term 'Islamic Fascism'. There are only so many barmy political coinages one can take before pointing out their absurdity.
I knew you would disagree. True Muslims have been oppressed since it began. But so has every religion has been oppressed. Every race has been oppressed. Every political ideology has been oppressed. There is nothing new about oppression. It has existed since there were two tribes. Extremism has existed in every religion, race and political ideology. You object when it is pointed your way. I understand.
What would you call it?
 
You pick up on Bush talking about "Islamic Fascism", but you do not acknowledge Muslims in Pakistan and Saudi "rooting out evil", because you say that Muslims in general "will not" do such a thing. What majority of Muslims are you talking about?

You are not picking up on the pro-Islam cues. Why is that?
I see governments addressing the problem. I don’t see much else. When the governments take action they are subjected to terrorism.
 
:sl:
However, the first step in confronting a problem is to name the problem.
Sadly, there are people who think that the problem is Islam. Which is really quite retarded, to say the least, given terrorism has absolutely no place in Islam.

wilberhum said:
I see governments addressing the problem. I don’t see much else.

If you're implying that muslims do not address the problem, you are greatly mistaken - local mosques that I have prayed at, throughout the years, have all addressed the problem and have kept saying: don't do these stupid actions.
 
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:sl:

Sadly, there are people who think that the problem is Islam. Which is really quite retarded, to say the least, given terrorism has absolutely no place in Islam.

The problem isn't Islam itself, but those that use Islam to justify their actions and program new members.
 
The connection between global terrorism and Islam isn't simply something Bush or Blair or any world leader in the past made up to cause division or "destroy" Islam. The connection is there for all to see.
But to say that the connection is with Islam is to say that such ideologies originate from the Islamic teachings themselves, which is not true. It is more appropriate to say that they are connected to various sociopolitical factors in the Muslim word.
The point is that a fairly large segment of the Islamic population, many in Western nations, have been programmed and radicalized to commit terrorist acts, in the name of religion.
First of all, the word is 'Muslim population' NOT 'Islamic population'. Secondly, how can you possibly call it a 'fairly large segment'? There are at least 1.6 billion Muslims in the world today. If even 1% of that number were terrorists or held to a violent ideology, the entire world would have been annihilated long ago! There is a tremendous problem when the media continues to focus on a dozen here and there and neglects the masses, as well as the leaders and scholars, all of whom unanimously denounce such ideas.
Islamic fascism, while understandably not a popular phrase amongst most Muslims, is spot on in defining the ideology we are talking about.
It is a misleading term that will actually contribute to the problem as it will fuel hatred, resentment, distrust and misunderstandings when we should be reaching out to eachother for dialogue and unity.

Regards
 
The problem isn't Islam itself, but those that use Islam to justify their actions and program new members.
I totally agree with you. And saying it isn't Islam is true but does not address the problem. Nor does blaiming Bush and Blair address the problem.
 
:sl:
The problem isn't Islam itself, but those that use Islam to justify their actions and program new members.
Indeed it is. But as I stated before, there are many who think it is Islam (***************** has many members with that problem - I experienced it on countless occasions)

This problem has been addressed in the mosques. In Leicester and Birmingham atleast.
 
"Sociopolitical"....I could live with that. The problem is that nothing can change the perception, true or not, that terrorists commit their murderous acts and justify it by pointing to religion and their hatred of Christians and Zionists.

When I mentioned a "fairly large segment", I should have said a fairly large number.

Hatred, mistrust, and misunderstanding are fueled by terrorism itself, not a phrase.
 
wilberhum said:
I see governments addressing the problem. I don’t see much else. When the governments take action they are subjected to terrorism.

That doesn't answer my question.
Your government tells you about the Muslims that are on your side. In Pakistan and Saudi, etc.

But you say that "Musilms in general WILL NOT root out evil". So which general population are you basing that on? How do you apply this to Muslims in general?

My point is,
You do not acknowledge the cues given by your government when those cues are pro-Muslim. You only pick up on the negative. Why is that?
 
THE central conflict in the war on ideas lies in the
underlying stuff of man and how we think societies
should be organised. Regardless of what ideology has
ruled human affairs, they have all provided answers to
this question. This is true in religion as it is in
politics.

As the conflict in the Middle East continues, the
secular influences of groups such as Hamas and
Hezbollah are not obvious to the neutral observer. Nor
is their attraction to the young Muslim in the Sydney
street or the professional living in Indonesia clear.

"The core problem," as Paul Kelly argued on this page
on Wednesday, "seems to be the attraction of the
Islamist movement."

The 20th century saw the demise of communism, despite
its attraction to millions of people who felt poor or
downtrodden. It was exposed as a totalitarian system
that stifled the aspirations of man. But its stain is
spreading within the casing of Islamic fundamentalism.
This does not seem obvious, especially considering
Osama bin Laden himself was instrumental in defeating
the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan more than two
decades ago. And the Iranian revolution of 1979 was in
part a reaction to the perceived godlessness of
communism knocking at its doorstep.

This was mimicked to a lesser degree throughout the
Middle East, from Egypt to Jordan.

But the old Marxists are extending their influence in
many of the Islamic political parties that are rapidly
rising in popularity, in response to inept, autocratic
Arab governments. Arab governments have closed off
opportunity to such an extent that secular forces such
as communism or liberalism have minimal outlets.

One of the few places for a political voice is at the
mosque and through religion. Religion provides the
cloak for what is essentially politics.

As a result, political Islam is on the rise throughout
the Arab world. The first municipal election in Saudi
Arabia delivered wins for Islamic parties and, of
course, there was the election of Hamas by the
Palestinians. Many of the leaders representing
political Islam have previous ties to Arab socialism.
This is particularly true in Egypt, where the Muslim
Brotherhood won one-fifth of the vote in elections
last year.

Veteran foreign correspondent Mary Ann Weaver writes
in her book A Portrait of Egypt: "A number of my
former professors from the American University of
Cairo were Marxists 20 years ago: fairly adamant,
fairly doctrinaire Marxists. They are now equally
adamant, equally doctrinaire Islamists."

The developments in Egypt are potent for it has long
been a leader in the region.

The similarities of communism and Islam are
considerable. Both are egalitarian and advocate
radical economic change. They both demand a domination
of the public space and share a dogmatic, ideological
view of the world.

Political Islam is also supplying the social services
in a collective context that communism promised, and
the status of groups such as Hamas and Hezbollah
depends on this. Their facilities are often described
by locals as superior to those provided by the ruling
governments.

Islam also promises to deliver the poor masses from
oppression, but there is a difference: instead of the
working class rising up against the bourgeoisie, the
uprising to be encouraged is by hapless, impoverished
Muslims against their oppressive Western masters or
puppet Arab leaders. And like communism, Islam
believes the collective must be preserved at the
expense of the individual. We are social beings first,
individuals second.

Like communism, Islamism promises a better life for
the poor, oppressed and alienated. It is cloaked in
God, but its essence is strongly secular. Unless the
West fights the war of ideas at this level, offering a
competing vision of morality as well as economics and
technology, the lure of Islamic extremism will
continue to flourish.

And this will especially be the case as television
shows the Western class oppressors dropping bombs on
the Muslim proletariat.

* Tanveer Ahmed, a Sydney psychiatrist, is writing
a book that is a comic look at Muslim life in Australia.
 
That doesn't answer my question.
Your government tells you about the Muslims that are on your side. In Pakistan and Saudi, etc.

But you say that "Musilms in general WILL NOT root out evil". So which general population are you basing that on? How do you apply this to Muslims in general?

My point is,
You do not acknowledge the cues given by your government when those cues are pro-Muslim. You only pick up on the negative. Why is that?
My government tells me nothing about Muslims. That is just part of your "Dream State".
I learn about Muslims from this forum.

In general, I see little effort from any Muslim community, anyplace, where there is an effort to "Root out Evil".

But then how do we debate about evil when we don't share a common "Moral Compass"?
 
wilberhum said:
My government tells me nothing about Muslims. That is just part of your "Dream State".

Your government doesn't tell you about the allies it has in Pakistan and Saudi, etc? I find that hard to believe.
 
Your government doesn't tell you about the allies it has in Pakistan and Saudi, etc? I find that hard to believe.
The governmnt tells me nothing much, I listen to the news. Besides you said Muslims, you never mentioned countries. When did countries come up? Lots of countries are acting. Some of them are Muslim countries. That has nothing to do with individual actions?
 
So, wilberhum
When you talk about "Muslims in general", you don't want to talk about populations of Muslims.

And it's the news that tells you things. (They never interview spokespeople from the government.) And you reckon that the terror plots were foiled without the aid of Muslim individuals.

I see.
Thank you for clarifying.
 
When you talk about "Muslims in general", you don't want to talk about populations of Muslims.
Well I have committed the sin of un-clarity. I did say countries. What I meant to communicate was “Governments of Countries”.
And you reckon that the terror plots were foiled without the aid of Muslim individuals.
The best way to make a fool out of your self is to use works like, always, never, all the time, everybody, nobody, and many others.
To even suggest that Muslims never help, would be a stupid statement. If you reread my statement, I said “little effort”. In fact last night on the news that it was “Inside Information” that started the investigation into the latest plot in the UK. CNN also interview a Muslim that had been trained by the FBI is look for “spurious” activities. On the flip side, he is now looked down on by fellow Muslims.

Next Question?
Wilber
 

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