Israel and the annihilation of Palestine

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Turin Turambar ;
After all during these 200 years of defeats (more or less) Muslim countries have been in fact very Islamic. Most of them still are.

u saidn this but ... im very sorry u are wrong visit a muslim country first and trust me u wouldnt say that
im egyptian and ive been there several times ... and see it on arabic tv etc etc...

i dotn think soo....
name me one country that majority of it is mostly religious... but u have to have trusted sources or u wnet there personally and spotted this...
mayb palestine bcuz of is state even many of my frends has been there recnetly and yet there are mnay bad muslims...
 
abdul Majid said:
whats all this defeat about, why are you over looking the wars that have been won??? ex: agaist the roman army of about 100,000 muslims were only 13,000 and they won!!! you can look that up !!

GOD doesnt want ISLAM TO EXPAND ???????
HELLO this is a religion from GOD, A MERCY FROM GOD!! EVEN JEWISH AND CHRISTIANS CAN ADMIT THAT, ISLAM IS A REAL AND LAST RELIGION, MOHAMED(PBH) IS THE LASTTTT PROPHET!!!!!
THEN WHY IS ISLAM THE FASTEST GROWING RELIGION IN THE WORLDDDD !!!!
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So well said brother:bravo: ..even USA has now said this "Islam is fasting growing religion":)
 
As someone who is a Jew, I have to say that I find this thread to be offensive and reprehensible. Jews are accustomed to Christians reinterpreting their scriptures to justify Christian escatology, and such is excusable when it goes to the core of Christianity [e.g., the otherwise unjustifiable belief that Jesus was the Jewish messiah]. However, when such reinterpretation of our scriptures is for the purpose of creating discord between Jews and other people [in this case Muslims] it is WAY over the line.

There are, of course, crazies in every religion who misuse their traditions for bad purposes, and we Jews have some such around the so-called "Temple Institute," in the Koch movement and among the "settlers." But most Jews [around 98% or more] simply would disagree 100% with what is being pushed as our "destiny" in this thread.

Indeed, all but a very small minority of Jews would tell you that Jews don't believe in destiny. Their religion is about choice between good and evil, not about a world in which human beings are puppets being manipulated by a G_d who has already stacked the deck.
 
abdul Majid said:
EVEN JEWISH AND CHRISTIANS CAN ADMIT THAT, ISLAM IS A REAL AND LAST RELIGION, MOHAMED(PBH) IS THE LASTTTT PROPHET!!!!!
THEN WHY IS ISLAM THE FASTEST GROWING RELIGION IN THE WORLDDDD !!!!
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nope we cannot admit on something it is not true at least from our POV (sorry)
 
Chuck:

Thanks for your answer. I will focus on one of the last things you said

"I don't think victory or defeat in worldly battles have any bearing on the truth or falsity of the religion"

How could that be? If there is a true religion, that says exactly what God really wants, how could that religion fail? Who is opposing God and making his plans fail? If God is all-powerful, that doesn't makes sense. What He wants is what happens, and that's it.

And the truth is that in the case of Islam worldly battles were the key to the success it had for a while. The primitive arabs believed in Muhammad precisely because he was winning battles, he could show in a practical way that Allah was really on his side. And when modern Muslims say with pride that "Islam expanded so fast because it is true" aren't they also saying that the truth of Islam depends on its winning battles? Because saying that "Islam exapanded" is the same as saying "Islam won battles". That is how the expansion of islam happened! Egypt and Syria were Christian, Iran (Persia) was Magian (Zoroastrian) and today they are mostly Muslim. How did that happen? Did they decide to imitate their neighbors the primitive Arabs? Of course not! Muslim armies invaded those countries and that is how Islam expanded. And that expansion is what makes you believe Islam is true.

So my question is still valid. If Islam is not expanding anymore and is on the contrary losing all battles, isn't that a proof that it is not true?
 
But ygalg is saying something obvious when he says that Muhammad is not recognized by the Jews as a prophet. And with all humility I can speak for the Christians and say the same. For us Muhammad is NOT a prophet. This is not a matter on which you will have two opinions among Jews and Christians.
 
Oh So You Speak For The Billions Of Christians Huh..lol

Can I Get Your Autograph By The Way, You Must Be Real Famous To Represent All These People

SO HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THE QURAN ???? AND I GUESS YOU NEVER RESEARCHED PROPHET MUHAMMED(PBH)...
 
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How could that be? If there is a true religion, that says exactly what God really wants, how could that religion fail? Who is opposing God and making his plans fail? If God is all-powerful, that doesn't makes sense. What He wants is what happens, and that's it.
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You need to consider the following points together:
1. We don't know the end result, which includes afterlife.
2. From an Islamic POV this world is a testing ground so both good times and bad times are part of the plan of God. We are supposed to show peity in both.
3. This world is very short temporary abode. Life after the Day of Judgment is the real life which is eternal.

And the truth is that in the case of Islam worldly battles were the key to the success it had for a while. The primitive arabs believed in Muhammad precisely because he was winning battles, he could show in a practical way that Allah was really on his side. And when modern Muslims say with pride that "Islam expanded so fast because it is true" aren't they also saying that the truth of Islam depends on its winning battles? Because saying that "Islam exapanded" is the same as saying "Islam won battles". That is how the expansion of islam happened! Egypt and Syria were Christian, Iran (Persia) was Magian (Zoroastrian) and today they are mostly Muslim. How did that happen? Did they decide to imitate their neighbors the primitive Arabs? Of course not! Muslim armies invaded those countries and that is how Islam expanded. And that expansion is what makes you believe Islam is true.
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You have a lot of misunderstanding about Islamic POV, and I'm sorry I don't really have time to educate you on this one. Maybe someone else can help you. But in short I'll say you are missing the Makkan era of persecution and the bigger picture.

So my question is still valid. If Islam is not expanding anymore and is on the contrary losing all battles, isn't that a proof that it is not true?
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Islam is still spreading; you can check internally reputable reporting organizations like CNN, NYTimes, etc.... Anyway, even if Islam cease to spread you will be wrong from Islamic POV.
 
To abdul Majid,

Of course I can speak for all Christians on this matter and it is not because I am particularly powerful or famous. I wish I was...;)

When you say "So You Speak For The Billions Of Christians" regarding my assertion that Christians don't consider Muhammed as a prophet you are failing to see that in the definition of Christian it is implied that we don't accept him as a prophet. What you say would be equivalent to saying "how do you know all weightlifters lift weights, have you talked to all of them, perhaps some of them don't" Well, if they didn't lift weights, they wouldn't be weightlifters!

The fact is that all Christians consider Jesus the central event of Creation and the end of the period of prophecy. That is why they are Christians to begin with. Jesus was the object of all prophecies so after Him there can be no more prophets. If you believe something different, you are not a Christian. After Jesus anybody claiming to be a prophet is lying. That includes anybody claiming to be a prophet 600 years after Jesus.

So I repeat what I said. Christians DO NOT consider Muhammad a prophet. We have a very different opinion of him.
 
so why did jesus(pbh) say that some one named ahmed is gonna come after him????

and if you reserach about PROPHET MOHAMED(PBH) youll see he is a prophet and the last one at that !!
 
To abdul Majid,

That statement about "some one named ahmed" is something I have read before, but only in Muslim websites. There is no HINT of anything like that in Christian scriptures or Christian doctrine as it has developed for 2,000 years. It is an invention of Muslim apologists.

And I have done research about Muhammad, believe me, I have read a lot about him. I began reading about him after 9/11 and I am still reading.
 
Dear Turin

I Beleive You Know That The Bible Is Not Complete, There Is No Original !! Only Added On And Completed By People After Christ !! So How Would You Know?
 
Salam Alaikum

Well it seems a lot of misinformation is going around in this thread in relation to Islam.

Misinformation
1. Arabs believe in Mohammed(s) as being a prophet because he claimed to win wars

Truth
Mohammed(s) even before he recieved revelation was known for his good charcteristics and was called "Sadiq Ya Amin" (meaning honest and trustyworthy) by the Pagan Arabs as well as the Jewish and Others around who knew him. When he eventually did recieve revelation it was actually the beauty of Islam that brought people to Islam. Apart from this Mohammed (s) also performed some miracles for the people who kept asking. Prophets Miracles


Misinformation
Islam was spread through the sword and via co-ercing people to believe or they would be killed

Truth
Firstly it is against Islamic teachings to impose faith upon anyone by force.
Secondly in the pre Islamic Arabia most pagan societies were very supressive and ignorant. With the advent of Islam people started embracing Islam in large numbers over time because for the first time in history women were given equal rights, a slave was given equal staus to a free man and freedom of religion and worship was declared.

The Muslim missionaries were exceptionally successful in preaching Islam to the people of other lands and as a result large numbers were converting to Islam. seeing this the govts of such lands started ordering the Muslims to be executed. This led to letters being issued to their leaders to stop the persecution and supression. Eventually due to them not stopping resulted in war. Once the land was captured even alarger numbers of people would embrace Islam solely based on the fact that it was giving them rights which they had never dreamed about.

Some simple exmaples of the atrocities of the Non Muslim governments which are well documented in historic documents include:

Women were being crucified when they would ask for their rights. This act was 100% supported by the Christian Church and the women were labelled Witches.

Church would ordered deniers of Jesus killed and they were labelled blasphemers

Scientists who were coming up with new theories which were in contradiction to Christian preachings were being killed and labelled as Heritics.

In pagan lands (including pre Islamic Arabia) women children used to be burried alive because they were considered a burden.

Misinformation
Muslim god is false because Muslims are losing battles now and arent doing so good

Truth
Allah swt in the Quran clearly states that he is merciful to all his creation irrespective of their religion. He provides for all people. It is not a case of "if you are Muslim u will get everything and if you arent you wont get anything".
Life is a trial for the believers - and thus God indeed tests people with poverty as well as riches, with success as well as defeat. Therefore Allah swt has made it clear in the Quran that to each nation and to each people he shall appoint a given term (in which they will have power) and when that term is up they will reach a decline.
In the past we see the Egyprians, Greeks, Romans, etc etc all come to power and then fade. Same way the Islamic Empire was once the light of the world and faded. Now the secular west is on top and will eventually fade to be replace by another some day or the other.

So this is actually a system of Allah that every nation and people will be put t test and trial both through success and power and through failure and poverty.


Misconception
Islam has failed because there is no Islamic state thus Allah cant be God

Truth
Islam is not a "thing" it is a way of life and a belief. As long as Islam lives in the hearts of people it can not be defeated. Currently there are 2,1 Billion Muslims world wide Alhamdolillah and this number is expanding at rates which have now earned Islam the title of "The Fastest Growing Religion on Earth"
Thereofre Islam has not failed but rather is on the rise Alhamdolillah

Misconception
Muslms believe everything that happens on this Earth is because of Allah

Truth
Allah swt has created the universe and it runs according to his will.
However humanity has been granted free will. We can use this free will to destroy or create. So when mankind spreads destruction around the world it is from his free will, not an act of God. Allah swt sees the efforts of a people and accordingly decides upon it.
Look at "qadr" or "predestination" with this example:
We are all on a big highway
Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Atheists, etc etc etc....
We are all travelling towards the same Goal - God (in Arabic Allah)
On this road are many turns and hurdles as well.
we cannot change the turns or hurdles - this is ordained by the creator.
We however have the option of driving safely upon this road.
We can choose to be wreckless in which case we lose.
Or we can choose to drive safely - in which case we win.
The creator of the road has also sent down instruction manual for people to follow.
We can choose to accept it or reject it.
Some people believe there is no creator of the road (atheists)
Some people believe the creator of the road sent his son so that we wont have to obey the rule book anymore and be accountable for our mistakes (Christians)
Some people believe they are choosen by the creator thus it dosent matter what happens because they are choosen (Jews)
Some believe the creator of the Road is one and will judge them according to their efforts for following the rule book (Muslims)
Others follow other theories (hindus, buddhists, wiccans, etc etc)
Some people have choosen to write their own rule books and follow them.
The creator of the road has also put "signs" up around the road for people to see and ponder upon so they can establish which rule book to follow.
Thus accordingly whoever made sound judgement and is driving best and according to the correct rules - will recieve the prize from God (heaven)

-----------------------------
I know this may not be the best of examples but this is what I could come up in my mind for now - hope it helps people understand what I am trying to say.

So basically we act on this Earth - But God runs the Earth.

Well I will stop here - I sincerely hope my input will help clearify some concerns for people.

salam Alaikum
 
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To abdul Majid,

You are touching on an important point. The concept of Holy Scripture for Christians and Muslims is different.

When Jesus was alive he never did what Muhammed would later do. He never stood up and said "Silence, I am receiving a message from God and it says that you have to obey me". Jesus never gave us a "recitation". He taught with his example, he performed miracles, he died and he rose from the dead. The people around him were so impressed by what they had seen that they began teaching his message. Only YEARS after his death would some of them put in writing what they had seen and heard. And they never claimed that it was a "recitation from God". It was simply their story about all the wonders they had seen. It was exactly what you would do if you had met an incredible person and you wanted to leave something written for others to know about him. It was natural.

Muhammed did something very different, because he wanted power during his own life. He wouldn't wait to be dead before being recognized as a prophet. That is why he invented the idea of the "recitation from above", because it gave him an opportunity to use that trick whenever he wanted his followers to do something. Whenever he encountered a problem, the angel came with the best solution for HIM.

Please listen to what I am saying. Go and get more information from the websites of Ibn Warraq and Ali Sina. I don't know you but believe me, I only want the best for you.
 
lol....you said Mohamed (pbh) wanted power???

Then you know nothing about him(pbh)....he had power, and he preformed many mircles, including the quran, buddy !!!
He never used a trick , as you say ok!!!

And what was Jesus's mesage(pbh)?? he preformed miricles just as Prophet MOhamed(pbh), and people started worshiping him, becuase they dont understand that GOD gave him this power, to show them hes just not any regular guy and hes a massenger..duhhhh, they never understood, PAUL IS THE ONE WHO STARTED WORSHIPING JESUS(PBH), THATS HOW THIS NOTION OF HIM BEING GOD OR THE SON OF GOD STARTED.....

HE NEVER SAID HE WAS GOD OR THE SON OF GOD!!!!!!!
HE ALWAYS SAID HE WAS A PLAIN MASSENGERRRRRRRR

HELLO, LISTEN DONT TAKE MY WORD FOR IT, HERES A FORMER PREISTTTT WHO KNOWS MORE THAN YOU!!!! HE WILL TELL YOU, HE KNOWS THE TRUTH THATS WHY HE IS MUSLIM NOW !!!


http://WWW.ISLAMTOMORROW.COM
 
I will visit it if you promise to visit Ibn Warraq and Ali Sina! Both of them were Muslims, one born in Pakistan and one in Iran. Remember that I am not trying to get any power or advantage over you. I just want you to see things from a new point of view.
 
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