Turin:
I will rest my case without saying anything else.
You can rest your case if you want, but I missed this post and I have a lot to say. :giggling: I will apologize ahead of time for the length of this post. :rollseyes
You on the other hand say that Paul was the one who did the trickery and fooled us. Paul is a revered saint in my Church, so I could claim that you are now offending me. Why don't we call it even and keep looking for the truth which is after all the important thing?
I apologize if I offended you. But, Paul said those things about himself, so it shouldn’t offend you.
Corinthians 9:19-21: “Although I am free from everyone, I have enslaved myself to all of them in order to win a large number. To Jews I behave as a Jew to win Jews; to those under the Law as one who is under the Law, although I am not under the Law, to gain those who are under the Law. To those who are without the Law I am as without Law, although not lawless towards God but committed to Christ’s Law, in order to win those who are without law.”
Paul abolished the Law, which was followed and preached by Jesus, pbuh, and corrupted the whole religion, giving it a new form. The main ambition behind all this was, in his own words, “to win a larger number” of followers; the followers of a new religion; the “Pauline Christianity”.
1) The version that Muslims believe is that Jesus was merely a prophet who had a message that was essentially identical to the message later given by Muhammad. But his followers distorted his message. In particular Paul lied completely about who Jesus was and what did he actually say. Then Muhammad came to give again to mankind the original message. I think I am right in all the essentials according to Muslim beliefs.
There is no such thing as “merely” a prophet. These were great, pious men, chosen by God to spread His word. Jesus, pbuh, didn’t say anything that wasn’t already said by all the prophets before Him. He preached the Oneness of God, to his particular nation as they all did. When men destroyed the original words of Jesus, pbuh, (not only Paul…although he changed the face of Christianity completely), Muhammed, pbuh, was sent to ALL mankind with the final revelation. And, He taught the same as the prophets before Him….The Oneness of God and the only one worthy of worship.
2) The version that Christians believe is that Jesus was much more than a prophet and that his followers never lied or betrayed his teachings.
Paul in particular was truthful to his message and explained and developed it, always true to the essentials.
Later Muhammad came and he lied when he said that the Christian Scriptures were corrupt and that he was bringing the original message as it stood before the corruption.
Paul knew people would not readily accept “his” Gospel so he warned the Galatians in 1:8, not to follow anything else except what he taught. (Imagine, a man not even taught by Jesus, pbuh, making such a statement.) Let’s see Paul’s gospel compared to the Gospel of Jesus, pbuh, and the revelation given to Muhammed, pbuh.
Original Sin:
Jesus: Not taught, Mark 19:13-14, Ezekiel 18:20-21
Muhammed: Not taught, Quran 6:164
Paul: Taught, Romans 5:12-14, Corinthians 15:22
Are we all unrighteous?
Jesus: NO, Mark 2:16-17, Mark 15:24
Muhammed: NO, Qur’an 33:70-71, 38:82-83
Paul: YES, Romans 3:10-23
Do our good works have any bearing before God?
Jesus: YES, Mat. 15:16, John 10:24-25
Muhammed: YES, Qur’an 24:38, 42:23
Paul: NO, Ephesians 2:8-9, Galatians 3:6-14
Must we follow the laws and commandments of God?
Jesus: YES, Matt 19:17, mark 10:19, Luke 18:20, Psalms 112:1, Exodus 20:6
Muhammed, YES, Qur’an 6:151-153
Paul, NO, Galatians 2:16, 3:11, 3:24, Romans 2:13
Is Atonement through sacrifice necessary?
Jesus: NO, Mark 12:28-29, Matt. 9:13, Hosea 6:6
Muhammed: NO, Qur’an 3:77
Paul: YES, Ephesians 5:2, Galatians 3:13, Hebrews 9:26
(by Ali Ataie)
Hmmmmm, who was it that lied???
The problem is that Paul and Muhammad contradict each other completely so one of the two WAS lying.
Of course they contradict. Paul contradicted all the prophets. To see which one was lying….see above.
According to Christians Paul lived the hazardous life of an itinerant preacher. After his conversion he was completely chaste and he lived in poverty.
With all the lying he was doing to all the different types of believers, is it any wonder he was a ‘wanted’ man living in poverty??
He was arrested several times by the Roman authorities and in fact spent many years in different prisons.
Hmmmm, a criminal.
He was harassed by the Pagan Romans, who still believed in their own gods. He was beaten several times by angry mobs and he finally was killed (martyred) in Rome.
Probably because the people realized all the lies he was telling them and because he played them all like a fiddle.
According to Muslims Muhammad after Medina was a ruler who commanded armies.
Yes, He was a great leader, Alhamdulillah.
He led those armies in battle and asked for 20% of the booty for himself
Check your resources, He never kept the booty for His own personal use. Muhammed, pbuh, lived in poverty by choice.
He had 15 wives and perhaps 30 concubines, although the number is not certain.
The number is 13: Khadija Bint Khuwailid (the only wife for 25 years), Sawda Bint Zam`a, `A´isha Bint Abu Bakr, Hafsa Bint `Umar, Zainab Bint Khuzaima, Ummu Salama, Zainab Bint Jahsh, Juwairiyya Bint al-Harith, Safiyya Bint Huyay, Ummu Habiba, Maria, the Copt, Maimuna Bint al-Harith, Rayhana
As for your “perhaps 30 concubines”, give me facts, not “perhapses”, from reliable, authentic sources.
His will was law for the Arabs. He ordered those who opposed him to be killed. At the time of his death he was the absolute ruler of the peninsula and he had thousands of men ready to die for him.
His TEACHINGS were for ALL mankind, not just Arabs. He NEVER forced anyone to embrace Islam. Islam was not spread by the sword. There is NO compulsion in religion. If that were true, why are so many Coptic Christians living in Egypt today when Egypt, for the vast majority of Islamic history, was ruled by Muslims? They would have been wiped out by now. Which Muslim army invaded Indonesia….the country with the largest percentage of Muslim population.
Yes, as I said, Prophet Muhammed, pbuh, was a GREAT leader, so much so, that Times named Him the most influential man in History.
Yes, He was loved and respected by many over the entire peninsula and yes, they were willing to protect the Prophet and Muslim leader. He endured much through His years and always remained strong in His love and worship of Allah, swt. Regardless of hardship, He endured, He thanked God for ALL things, both good and bad, He was compassionate, pious, kind, caring, giving, etc., towards ALL people. Alhamdulillah. He spent His life as a servant to Allah, swt, and never faltered or questioned the will of Allah, swt. He was the BEST of all Muslims and a man whose guidance we can follow and strive to be like Him. (PBUH)
As I said earlier, we know that one of the two was lying but we don’t know who. You know men as well as I do. Do men lie in order to get the life that Paul got? Do men lie in order to get the life that Muhammad got? We do not know who was lying but we can make a guess perhaps? Why would Paul lie? Why would Muhammad lie?
I think you can answer that for yourself now.
Hana
