Jesus asked, "Who do you say I am?"

[Redeemed]

The point that you made here can be applied to our second source of religous knowledge, the hadith. The books of hadith such as Bukhari, Muslim, Tirmidhi, Abu Dawood are collections of what someone remembered the Prophet (pbuh) or his companions said or did. There are small differences between different narrators of the same situation, but they convey basically the same message. I see a strong analogy between Islamic hadith and the 4 gospels and the book of Acts of the NT. A point of difference, however, is that Muslims (to my knowledge) don't consider even strong hadith to be "inspired by God", but rather authentic narrations to show how the Prophet (pbuh) and his companions applied the Quran and the Islamic message to their lives.

Muslims claim that every word of the Quran was revealed to Prophet Muhammad through the angel Gabriel (Jibrael) and that every word has been accurately preserved without change for the past 1400 years. Note that the Quran has been preserved in the Arabic language of revelation. When I say "Qul huwa 'Allaah 'ah.ad, 'Allaah as.- s.amad, lam yalid wa- lam yolad, wa- lam yakun la- -hu kufuw(an) 'ah.ad" not only is the meaning the same as what was originally intended, but the sound is also the same.

Can Christians make the same claim about the Bible? Can Christians claim with any confidence that Jesus actually said verbatim even one verse of the NT that is attributed to him?

You have raised some interesting points. The Bible and the story of Jesus goes back further than Muhammad or 1400 years ago, but the Bible has passed through some language translations, but yes, we do have access to the original text in Hebrew and Greek. There are definitely transnational errors in the Bible and some problems where there appears to be even contradictions, but never concerning the deity of Christ. Things might be worded differently because of the different witnesses, and not everyone sees the same things in the same way. The message is clear in the Bible however. When Jesus asked who do you say I am, the disciple said you are the Son of the living God. Jesus told him that flesh and blood did not reveal this to you God did. Muslims don't believe that this is a true record and his word, but we do; moreover, we would doubt any book or account that would try to deny the validity of Jesus' words and questions as recorded in the Bible. If Jesus asks you who do you say I am, what would you say?

 

[MustafaMc]

If Jesus asks you who do you say I am, what would you say?

God willing, I would answer truthfully.

As a Muslim, I believe that Jesus is the son of Mary and that he was born without a father. I believe that Jesus was created in the womb of Mary when Allah said, "Be!" and he was. I believe that Jesus is among the most honored of all humans, that he was a Prophet and a Messenger of the One God and that he is one of the ones brought near to God. I believe that he performed many miracles on earth by the Will of God. I believe that he did not die on the cross rather he was raised to Heaven without dying and that he will return near the end of time to estsablish true Islamic rule throughout the earth. I believe that on Judgement Day Jesus will disassociate himself from Christianity and that he will deny telling people to worship him instead of the One God. I don't believe that Jesus is God, Son of God, a human manifestation of God, or anything approaching God's equal.

God willing, if someone appeared now performing miracles, claiming to be Jesus and compelling people to bow down and worship him that I would answer as Jesus is supposedly quoted to have said in Matthew 4:8-10 Again, the devil taketh him unto an exceeding high mountain, and showeth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; and he said unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. I believe that worship is reserved for Allah alone.

 

[Redeemed]

God willing, I would answer truthfully.

As a Muslim, I believe that Jesus is the son of Mary and that he was born without a father. I believe that Jesus was created in the womb of Mary when Allah said, "Be!" and he was. I believe that Jesus is among the most honored of all humans, that he was a Prophet and a Messenger of the One God and that he is one of the ones brought near to God. I believe that he performed many miracles on earth by the Will of God. I believe that he did not die on the cross rather he was raised to Heaven without dying and that he will return near the end of time to estsablish true Islamic rule throughout the earth. I believe that on Judgement Day Jesus will disassociate himself from Christianity and that he will deny telling people to worship him instead of the One God. I don't believe that Jesus is God, Son of God, a human manifestation of God, or anything approaching God's equal.

God willing, if someone appeared now performing miracles, claiming to be Jesus and compelling people to bow down and worship him that I would answer as Jesus is supposedly quoted to have said in Matthew 4:8-10 Again, the devil taketh him unto an exceeding high mountain, and showeth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; and he said unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. I believe that worship is reserved for Allah alone.

This has been the most interesting and informative thing I have ever read on an Islamic forum. This gives me a very good picture of the Islamic Faith. Are you the only Muslim that believes this or is this the common belief? One of the most important things I heard you say is that Jesus was born of Mary without an earthly Father. I believe and I think this is common among Christians that Jesus is of course the son of Mary (the man part of Jesus). But the deity part makes Him The Son of the Father in heaven (God). I too would not bend my knee to the God of this world (Satan who wanted Jesus' worship), but I would bow before Jesus; in fact, The Bible states that every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord. I believe He died rose and is coming back not as a Lamb but as the King of Glory. I believe every knee will bow. Those who love His appearing and even His enemies will bow and confess His Lordship to the glory of God. What you have shared actually strengthens my faith in God. The Bible says that the angels were commanded to worship Jesus. We are below the angels. Jesus said of all the spiritual and godly men on earth there was “never one as great as John the Baptist” who paved the way for The Son of Man and God. He claims that he wasn’t worthy to even touch His sandals. I would never want to be in the shoes of anyone who denies that Jesus is the Son of the Living Almighty God.

 

[Muslim Knight]

If Jesus died and rose again, why do we need to worship Jesus instead of God, who gave him life in the first place and subsequently after?

If Jesus = God, then Jesus as well as God died, then who gave life to the dead Jesus/God? It is fitting that we should only worship the One Who gives life, since He is the more powerful, more Merciful, who deserves all worship and praise.

If Jesus was the sacrificial Lamb, what is sacrificed if his life is returned back to him? Sacrifice are meant to be given up forever, unless the person/entity to whom the sacrifice was meant for, returns it to the person who made the sacrifice.

If Jesus = God, and God made the sacrifice, He is making sacrifice meant for Himself? Can someone sacrifice for himself? Can I sacrifice a lamb, only meant for myself, whose meat is only fit for my own consumption? Other than being selfish, what else could the word be? Faith?

Then, if so, what is Faith?

 

[MustafaMc]

Are you the only Muslim that believes this or is this the common belief?

I wrote as I understand the Islamic faith held by Muslims.

But the deity part makes Him The Son of the Father in heaven (God).

Being born without a father, I admit that I don't understand how Jesus (pbuh) came to be, but I don't see how that makes him equal to God. I also don't understand how God created Adam, but I believe that He did. I have some understanding of natural conception, development in the womb and birth, but beyond that my intellect is at a loss.

...but I would bow before Jesus; in fact, The Bible states that every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord.

See Romans 14:11, Philemon 2:11 Can you provide a passage not written by Paul?

I would never want to be in the shoes of anyone who denies that Jesus is the Son of the Living Almighty God.

Likewise, I would not want to be in the shoes of anyone who claims that Jesus is the "Son of God."

Quran 5:72–73 They have disbelieved who say: “Allah is the Messiah, the son of Mary.” The Messiah (himself) said: “ O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Whoever ascribes partners to Allah, for him Allah has forbidden Paradise. His abode is the Fire. For the unjust there will be no helpers.” They have disbelieved who say: “Allah is the third of three,” when there is no god save One God. If they cease not what they say, a painful torment will fall upon those who disbelieve.

Quran 19:88-93 They say: “The All-Merciful has begotten a son!” Indeed you have put forth a monstrous falsehood. At which the skies are ready to burst, the earth to split asunder, and the mountains to fall down in ruins. That they should ascribe unto the All-Merciful a son. It does not behove (the majesty) of the All-Merciful that He should adopt a son. There is none in the heavens and the earth but comes to the All-Merciful as a slave.

Seeing how I believe the Quran to be the literal Word of God, my choice is to believe that Jesus and Muhammad (peace be upon them) were no more than the most honorable of all men - prophets and messengers of the One God.

 

[Woodrow]

This has been the most interesting and informative thing I have ever read on an Islamic forum. This gives me a very good picture of the Islamic Faith. Are you the only Muslim that believes this or is this the common belief? One of the most important things I heard you say is that Jesus was born of Mary without an earthly Father. I believe and I think this is common among Christians that Jesus is of course the son of Mary (the man part of Jesus). But the deity part makes Him The Son of the Father in heaven (God). I too would not bend my knee to the God of this world (Satan who wanted Jesus' worship), but I would bow before Jesus; in fact, The Bible states that every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord. I believe He died rose and is coming back not as a Lamb but as the King of Glory. I believe every knee will bow. Those who love His appearing and even His enemies will bow and confess His Lordship to the glory of God. What you have shared actually strengthens my faith in God. The Bible says that the angels were commanded to worship Jesus. We are below the angels. Jesus said of all the spiritual and godly men on earth there was “never one as great as John the Baptist” who paved the way for The Son of Man and God. He claims that he wasn’t worthy to even touch His sandals. I would never want to be in the shoes of anyone who denies that Jesus is the Son of the Living Almighty God.

I know you have strong belief in the Bible. I can not deny your right to believe that.

I am unable to find anything in the NT, that I can accept as proof that the NT is the Word of God(swt). I find much in the Qur'an and the Ahadith to be proof that the Qur'an is the word of God(swt)

It only makes sense to follow the word of God(swt) over an unverifiable source. So, I can not be anything except a Muslim. As a Muslim, I choose to spend my life as a servant of God(swt) and serve God(swt) I can not be a servant of God(swt) and follow the teachings of the NT.

I find your words to be very sad and I can only find comfort in the knowledge that I know Allah(swt) is all merciful and all just. I accept the fact that your future will be in accordance to the will of Allah(swt)

The words that you find so true:

I would never want to be in the shoes of anyone who denies that Jesus is the Son of the Living Almighty God.

Carry with them a very high cost. I can not stop you from sinning and from committing the unforgivable sin of shirk. That can only come from you accepting the truth and sincerely repenting.

 

[FatimaAsSideqah]

Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one. (From the NIV Bible, Deuteronomy 6:4)"

"The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. (From the NIV Bible, Mark 12:29)"

Notice also how Jesus said "our God", which included him to be under GOD Almighty's creation and Divine Authority, and not someone or an entity that is equal to GOD Almighty.

The Bible's New Testament also records Jesus saying: ""Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good–except God alone." (From the NIV Bible, Mark 10:18)"

Jesus in this verse is clearly giving exclusivity to GOD Almighty when he said "alone". If Jesus was truly part of GOD Almighty and/or the trinity lie was true, then Jesus, to say the least, would not have said that.

• Matthew 26:34-35, 55-57, 69-75
• 34 Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this night, before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.
• 35 Peter said unto him, Though I should die with thee, yet will I not deny thee. Likewise also said all the disciples.
• .......
• 55 In that same hour said Jesus to the multitudes, Are ye come out as against a thief with swords and staves for to take me? I sat daily with you teaching in the temple, and ye laid no hold on me.
• 56 But all this was done, that the scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled. Then all the disciples forsook him, and fled.
• 57 And they that had laid hold on Jesus led him away to Caiaphas the high priest, where the scribes and the elders were assembled.
• 69 Now Peter sat without in the palace: and a damsel came unto him, saying, Thou also wast with Jesus of Galilee.
• 70 But he denied before them all, saying, I know not what thou sayest.
• 71 And when he was gone out into the porch, another maid saw him, and said unto them that were there, This fellow was also with Jesus of Nazareth.
• 72 And again he denied with an oath, I do not know the man.
• 73 And after a while came unto him they that stood by, and said to Peter, Surely thou also art one of them; for thy speech bewrayeth thee.
• 74 Then began he to curse and to swear, saying, I know not the man. And immediately the cock crew.
• 75 And Peter remembered the word of Jesus, which said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. And he went out, and wept bitterly.

Now as we clearly see, Peter did witness the so-called crucifixion event. He was present there. The only thing that saved him from death is his denial that he knew Jesus. Otherwise, he would've got crucified that night.

 

[Umar001]

Howdy!

Can you please be more specific? I'd like to make sure I understand you question correctly.

If you read between the gospels you see the way Jesus is spoke about change, this is one example of it, its consitance rules out mistakes.

 

[don532]

If you read between the gospels you see the way Jesus is spoke about change, this is one example of it, its consitance rules out mistakes.

Yes it does change. But don't we see accounts of things in the Qur'an differ also? For example, Moses and the sorcerers.

They said: "O Moses! Whether wilt thou That thou throw (first) Or that we be the first to throw?" He said, "Nay, throw ye First!" Then behold Their ropes and their rods- So it seemed to him on account of their magic- Began to be in lively motion! So Moses conceived In his mind A (sort of ) fear. We said: "Fear not! For thou hast indeed The upper hand: Throw that which is In thy right hand: Quickly will it swallow up That which they have faked What they have faked Is but a magician's trick: And the magician thrives not (No matter) where he goes. So the magicians were Thrown down in prostration: They said, "We believe In the Lord of Aaron and Moses." (Pharaoh) said: "Believe ye In Him before I give You permission? Surely This must be your leader, Who has taught you magic! Be sure I will cut off Your hands and feet On opposite sides, and I Will have you crucified On trunks of palm-trees: So shall ye know for certain, Which of us can give The more severe and the more Lasting punishment." They said, "Never shall we Regard thee as more than The Clear Signs that have Come to us, or than Him who created us! So decree whatever thou Desirest to decree: for thou Canst only decree (touching) The life of this world. For us, we have believed In our Lord: may He Forgive us our faults, And the magic to which Thou didst compel us: For God is Best And Most Abiding." [S. 20:65-73]

So when the sorcerers arrived, They said to Pharaoh: "Of course- shall we have a suitable reward if we win?" He said: "Yea, (and more),- For ye shall in that case Be (raised in posts) Nearest (to my person)." Moses said to them, "Throw ye- which ye are about to throw!" So They threw their ropes And their rods, and said: "By the might of Pharaoh It is we who will Certainly win!" Then Moses threw his rod, When, behold, it straightway swallows up all The falsehoods which they fake! Then did the Sorcerers fall down, prostration in adoration, Saying: "We believe in the Lord of the Worlds, The Lord of Moses and Aaron." Said Pharaoh: "Believe ye In Him before I give You permission? Surely he is your leader who has Taught you sorcery! But soon shall ye know!"

"Be sure I will cut off Your hands and your feet On opposite sides, and I Will cause you all To die On the cross!" They said: "No matter! For us, we shall but return to our Lord! Only, our desire is That our Lord will forgive us our faults, That We may become Foremost among the Believers!" [S. 26:41-52 (Cf. 7:111-126)]

 

[Umar001]

Yes it does change. But don't we see accounts of things in the Qur'an differ also? For example, Moses and the sorcerers.

Break down to me how the two Qu'ranic passages change the status of Moses?

What I was saying is that as we know the Bible is a compilation of Books, the 4 Gospels are all representations of Jesus through the author's writing, but what we see is that in the Gospel which is accepted as the earliest Jesus is potrayed in a manner and the later Gospels potray Jesus in a different stance to this, the incident of 'Who do you say I am' is something which testifies to this, because this is one of the times in which consistant change is made in the writings which in turn potray Jesus differently.

 

[don532]

Break down to me how the two Qu'ranic passages change the status of Moses?

I don't believe they do. I think the message is the same. That is the point. The stories are not 100% exact, but the message is the same. Another example is the story of Moses and the burning bush. It is told three times in the Qur'an, each time differently. (20:9-24, 27:7-14 and 28:29-33)

Is what you really mean to say consistency in the message rules out mistakes, rather than consistency in the wording?

 

[Umar001]

I don't believe they do. I think the message is the same. That is the point. The stories are not 100% exact, but the message is the same. Another example is the story of Moses and the burning bush. It is told three times in the Qur'an, each time differently. (20:9-24, 27:7-14 and 28:29-33)

Is what you really mean to say consistency in the message rules out mistakes, rather than consistency in the wording?

First, consistancy between the Gospels doesn't account for much since it is possible that 2 of the three copied the earlier piece.

Second, what I am explaining is that within the same stories we see a change in the way people speak or act towards JEsus and in a way that Jesus speaks or acts, these changes are consistant, to me this shows an intent by the author to potray Jesus in a different light.

The Qu'ranic comparison is not of any use here because the Qu'ran is one book, thus the whole concept of different potrayals of characters has no use, if the author wanted to potray a character one way he would, but the Bible is a mixture of books with different authors, thus when there are differences from these differences we can have an insight into the author's mind behind his or her writing.

 

[don532]

Second, what I am explaining is that within the same stories we see a change in the way people speak or act towards JEsus and in a way that Jesus speaks or acts, these changes are consistant, to me this shows an intent by the author to potray Jesus in a different light.

You have piqued my curiosity. Can you give me a couple of examples of this? Thank you and peace.

 

[Umar001]

This is something I have been writing up to ask my church about, since the priest has spend time at uni studying theology, I have yet to complete the questions but this is part of it.

As I said, it is essential that the background behind the compilation of the Gospels as individual accounts.

Some of the stories which have changed throughout the Gospels:

Jesus calms the storm

The author in the Gospel according to Mark says that the disciples referred to Jesus, peace be upon him, as “Teacher” (ch.4 vs.38). The author of Luke places the word “Master” (ch.8 vs.24) on the lips of the disciples, while the author of Matthew elevates the word of the disciples to “Lord” (ch.8 vs.25)

Body with an evil spirit

The author of Mark states that a man came and referred Jesus as “Teacher” (ch.9 vs.17) this is again stated by Luke (ch.9 vs.38). Yet we see that the author of Matthew states that the man came and referred to Jesus as “Lord” (ch.17 vs.15)

The Fig Tree

The author of Mark narrates the story of Jesus having cursed the tree (ch.11 vs.14) and then the next day the tree was seen to have withered (ch.11 vs.20-21) Yet we see Jesus’ power amplified by the author of Matthew where he writes that Jesus cursed the tree (ch.21 vs.19) and instead of having a delay in the effect, like we see stated in the Gospel according to Mark, the curse’s effect happens “immediately” (ch.21 vs.19-20)

Confession of Peter

The author of Mark records Peter’s answer to Jesus’ question “Who do you say I am?” (ch.8 vs.29) as being “You are the Christ!” (ch.8 vs.29) in the Gospel of Luke the answer given by peter slightly differs, he says “The Christ of God” (ch.9 vs.20). But yet again the author of the Gospel of Matthew makes a change in the answer give, a change which drastically elevates Jesus’ status, Peter answers, “You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God” 9ch.16 vs.16)

The Transfiguration

In the Gospel of Mark the author writes that Peter refers to Jesus as “Rabbi” (ch.9 vs.55). Luke records this incident, according to the author Peter calls Jesus “Master” (ch.9 vs.33). The author of the Gospel of Matthew remains faithful to his character and writes that Peter refers to Jesus as “Lord” (ch.17 vs.4)

The Prayer

In all the synoptic Gospels Jesus’ prayer to ‘let the cup pass’ is included. In Mark’s Gospel Jesus tells his disciples “My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death” (ch.14 vs.34), he, Jesus, is described as “deeply distressed and troubled” (ch.14 vs.33).The author of Matthew records something similar “My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death” (ch.26 vs.38) he, Jesus, is described as “sorrowful and troubled” (ch.26 vs.37) All of them, Mark, Matthew and Luke record the prayer as something along the lines of “My father if possible take this cup from me; yet not my will but your will be done” Mark 14:36, Matthew 26:39 and Luke 22:42. Yet in the Gospel of John we do not witness these words, words which show an apparent reluctant side of Jesus to die. The prayer is different (ch.17).​

What does the above show, what we see is that the author of Matthew's Gospel consistantly, not once by accident, makes Jesus' disciples refer to him in a higher status, one can do a research if they are serious in the amount of times 'My Father' is said by Jesus in each of the Gospels, and other such phrases and I will expect the number the be higher in Matthew. Other incidents also show a touch of hand by the Authors.

To me this is one small piece, which of itself could cause doubt over the authenticity of Matthew at least, but never the less this is a small piece in a puzzle which shows reasons to wonder about the reliability of the Authors.

 

[Redeemed]

I know you have strong belief in the Bible. I can not deny your right to believe that.

I am unable to find anything in the NT, that I can accept as proof that the NT is the Word of God(swt). I find much in the Qur'an and the Ahadith to be proof that the Qur'an is the word of God(swt)

It only makes sense to follow the word of God(swt) over an unverifiable source. So, I can not be anything except a Muslim. As a Muslim, I choose to spend my life as a servant of God(swt) and serve God(swt) I can not be a servant of God(swt) and follow the teachings of the NT.

I find your words to be very sad and I can only find comfort in the knowledge that I know Allah(swt) is all merciful and all just. I accept the fact that your future will be in accordance to the will of Allah(swt)

The words that you find so true:

Carry with them a very high cost. I can not stop you from sinning and from committing the unforgivable sin of shirk. That can only come from you accepting the truth and sincerely repenting.

You are not trying to say that I am committing the sin of shirk because of accepting truth and repenting, are you? You must mean for believing that Jesus is the Son of God. We can't control what we believe. I have come to that conclusion. I am going to reap from the seed of what I believe. I was destined to. By the way, I appreciate that your heart is sad over me. It shows you really care, but I am a prisoner to what I believe, and I also feel the same sadness over not only you but all on this forum. This mutual sadness is something we share. That is one of the things in common. Did you know that there was an American claiming to be a Christian who hated Muslims? He thinks they are all warmongers. I told him that he needs to repent of his sinful attitude. He wrote back on another forum and told me that I could join in with you guys. I said, that anyone who says they love God and hates their brother or even their enemies is a lair. He said, he is in the Marines (green Bret), and I make him sick. Putting all that aside, I understand that you don't accept the NT especially Paul's writings. How about the Old Testament, do you accept that? Is there anything in there that you don't accept? Do you for instance accept the writings of Daniel and or Isaiah?

 

[MustafaMc]

The words that you find so true:

....

Carry with them a very high cost. I can not stop you from sinning and from committing the unforgivable sin of shirk. That can only come from you accepting the truth and sincerely repenting.

It is amazing that Christians base their salvation on believing that Jesus is the Son of God - the very thing that Islam teaches is the unforgivable sin of shirk if one dies in that state of believing. Likewise we base our hope of salvation on the declaration that there is only One God with the implication that He has no partners, no equals, no parents and no offspring. Though both are sincere in their belief, they are diametrically opposed and both can't be right.

However, it is for Allah to punish or to forgive.

Quran 5:116-118 After reminding him of these favors, Allah will say: "O Isa (Jesus) son of Maryam (Marry), Did you ever say to the people, "worship me and my mother as gods beside Allah?" He will answer: "Glory to You! How could I say what I had no right to say? If I had ever said so, you would have certainly known it. You know what is in my heart, but I know not what is in Yours; for You have full knowledge of all the unseen. I never said anything other than what You commanded me to say, that is to worship Allah, Who is my Rabb and your Rabb. I was a witness over them as long as I remained among them; but when You called me off, You were the Watcher over them and You are a Witness to everything. You punish them, they surely are Your servants; and if You forgive them, You are Mighty, Wise."

 

[Redeemed]

It is amazing that Christians base their salvation on believing that Jesus is the Son of God - the very thing that Islam teaches is the unforgivable sin of shirk if one dies in that state of believing. Likewise we base our hope of salvation on the declaration that there is only One God with the implication that He has no partners, no equals, no parents and no offspring. Though both are sincere in their belief, they are diametrically opposed and both can't be right.

However, it is for Allah to punish or to forgive.

Quran 5:116-118 After reminding him of these favors, Allah will say: "O Isa (Jesus) son of Maryam (Marry), Did you ever say to the people, "worship me and my mother as gods beside Allah?" He will answer: "Glory to You! How could I say what I had no right to say? If I had ever said so, you would have certainly known it. You know what is in my heart, but I know not what is in Yours; for You have full knowledge of all the unseen. I never said anything other than what You commanded me to say, that is to worship Allah, Who is my Rabb and your Rabb. I was a witness over them as long as I remained among them; but when You called me off, You were the Watcher over them and You are a Witness to everything. You punish them, they surely are Your servants; and if You forgive them, You are Mighty, Wise."

That sounds like an awful strong penalty to be one that has committed an unforgivable sin. Why is that unforgivable when we cannot choose what we believe? Can you renounce Islam and choose to believe that Jesus is the Son of God? You cannot do it anymore than I can. Why would you not understand that, and if you can, does not God understand even more? I feel that I can put up I good argument before God concerning the deity of Jesus. I can and yeah a will come before even God with boldness concerning this. I know God is not deaf and He can hear. I think it would be Jesus' call to manifest to me what my relationship should be to him. If it is not the way it should be now, let Him create a clean heart and right spirit in me, because He is just, and He knows that I could be a Muslim in a heart beat if I believed it were truth, but I don't! BUT, I BELIEVE THAT GOD IS TRUTH!!!!!

 

[MustafaMc]

Can you renounce Islam and choose to believe that Jesus is the Son of God? You cannot do it anymore than I can. Why would you not understand that, and if you can, does not God understand even more?

You speak truthfully. I am a Muslim convert from Christianity, but I did not will for it to happen. I cannot will to believe as the atheist does or to return to believing again as a Christian. Neither can I believe that the world is flat nor that the sun revolves around the earth. Guidance comes from Allah to whom He wills and leaves to stray those whom He wills.

Quran 6:125-126 Whomever Allah wills to guide, He opens his chest to Islam and whomever He intends to confound, He makes his chest narrow and squeezes so tight that, at the very idea of Islam, he feel as if his soul is going to climb up towards the sky. That is how Allah places a blight on those who do not believe, whereas in fact this way (Al-Islam) is the Right Way of your Rabb and We have spelled out Our revelations very clearly for the people who use their common sense.

I believe that most of the correspondence here is not for egotistical reasons of trying to prove one is right, but rather that each side truly cares for the other and is trying to show the other what he believes is the truth. I am sure that each feels a responsibility to share "the Truth" and to witness to unbelievers. May Allah guide us all to the Truth.

 

[Redeemed]

You speak truthfully. I am a Muslim convert from Christianity, but I did not will for it to happen. I cannot will to believe as the atheist does or to return to believing again as a Christian. Neither can I believe that the world is flat nor that the sun revolves around the earth. Guidance comes from Allah to whom He wills and leaves to stray those whom He wills.

Quran 6:125-126 Whomever Allah wills to guide, He opens his chest to Islam and whomever He intends to confound, He makes his chest narrow and squeezes so tight that, at the very idea of Islam, he feel as if his soul is going to climb up towards the sky. That is how Allah places a blight on those who do not believe, whereas in fact this way (Al-Islam) is the Right Way of your Rabb and We have spelled out Our revelations very clearly for the people who use their common sense.

I believe that most of the correspondence here is not for egotistical reasons of trying to prove one is right, but rather that each side truly cares for the other and is trying to show the other what he believes is the truth. I am sure that each feels a responsibility to share "the Truth" and to witness to unbelievers. May Allah guide us all to the Truth.

Yes, may our Creator leads us to truth, deliever us from evil and lead us not into tenptation especially those sins that are most destable to the Lord. Tell me about your life as a Christian; for instance, what kind of Christian did you consider yourself to be? I cannot identify with this change of yours. It is a hard saying to me. How is this possible? What was going on inside of you?????

 

[MustafaMc]

Tell me about your life as a Christian; for instance, what kind of Christian did you consider yourself to be? I cannot identify with this change of yours. It is a hard saying to me. How is this possible? What was going on inside of you?????

I sense a note of incredulity in your statement. However, in retrospect for me it was like leaving darkness and walking into the light.

I grew up as a Baptist in rural Mississippi. Upon entering college I became a member of the Church of Christ as a result of "dorm evangelism". I regularly attended church services, read my Bible and occasionally fasted. I consider that I was a sincere Christian. During my senior year, I got a room mate from Iran. He and I discussed religion, but relatively infrequently and in no great detail. Over Christmas break, I took his Quran home and read all of the verses about Jesus and Mary. I disbelieved at first, but reached a point where the "light bulb" of inspiration clicked on and I saw that the Quranic teachings made more sense to me. That was in December 1981. I have believed since then, but I only regularly practiced Islam since June 2001. I guess once someone hits 40 or so, he realizes that he is going to die and must stand before God on Judgement Day. I knew that I must live how I believed regardless of what others thought or the consequences in this life.