Jesus asked, "Who do you say I am?"

  • Thread starter Thread starter Redeemed
  • Start date Start date
  • Replies Replies 105
  • Views Views 13K
I sense a note of incredulity in your statement. However, in retrospect for me it was like leaving darkness and walking into the light.

I grew up as a Baptist in rural Mississippi. Upon entering college I became a member of the Church of Christ as a result of "dorm evangelism". I regularly attended church services, read my Bible and occasionally fasted. I consider that I was a sincere Christian. During my senior year, I got a room mate from Iran. He and I discussed religion, but relatively infrequently and in no great detail. Over Christmas break, I took his Quran home and read all of the verses about Jesus and Mary. I disbelieved at first, but reached a point where the "light bulb" of inspiration clicked on and I saw that the Quranic teachings made more sense to me. That was in December 1981. I have believed since then, but I only regularly practiced Islam since June 2001. I guess once someone hits 40 or so, he realizes that he is going to die and must stand before God on Judgement Day. I knew that I must live how I believed regardless of what others thought or the consequences in this life.

I think I understand. You grew up as a Baptist and went through the motions of a Christian, but you didn't know Jesus. You knew about Him, but you didn't know Him as your personal Lord and Savior. The difference between you and me is that I know Jesus. I actually have a relationship with Him. He is in me and is the Lord of my life. I know I am fallible, but I am confident that what I have with the Lord is not religion (like what you had); it's a relationship I have. You could have had it and can still have it, but you have made your choice. Once one has a relationship with Him, there is no turning back. I believe what the Bible says: If we refuse the love of the truth, God sends us a strong delusion that we might believe a lie.
Read Isaiah 53 in the Old Testament. It tells why God put Him to death (something that you now deny happened) as a sacrifice for our sins and transgressions. It starts off by saying, "Who has believed our report and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed.” It is written: “How can we ever hope to escape the judgment of God if we neglect so get a salvation?” I would never trust my eternal soul to my own works. I trust in what He did. The reasons I have eternal life is not because of what I did; otherwise, I could boast. It is what He did. God looks at me because Jesus became sin for me and all His righteous came on me. When I look in the mirror, I see the righteous of Christ and so does God. This is what I make my boast in. That is why I know who I am in Christ, and I know with total security where I am going. I am not at the mercy of a god whose mood can suddenly change, and I go to hell. Jesus' love for me is so great that he would rather go to hell with me than go to heaven without me. This is my experience as a follower of Christ. It is not and an unforgivable sin to believe that Jesus is the Son of God; it is just the opposite to a Christian it is how we get forgiveness of ours sins. We cannot redeem ourselves; if we could, God would not get the glory. In my life, God is going to be glorified.
 
I think I understand. You grew up as a Baptist and went through the motions of a Christian, but you didn't know Jesus. You knew about Him, but you didn't know Him as your personal Lord and Savior. The difference between you and me is that I know Jesus.
How would you know what was in my heart over 26 years ago?

Quran 4:44-45 Have you not considered the case of those to whom a portion of the Book was given? They purchased error for themselves and wish to see you lose the Right Way. Allah knows your enemies very well. Sufficient is Allah to protect you, and Sufficient is Allah to help you.

Quran 109:1-6 Say: O unbelievers! I worship not that you worship, nor will you worship that which I worship. I shall never worship those gods whom you worship, nor it appears will you ever worship Allah, whom I worship. To you be your religion, and to me mine.

Peace!
 
How would you know what was in my heart over 26 years ago?

Quran 4:44-45 Have you not considered the case of those to whom a portion of the Book was given? They purchased error for themselves and wish to see you lose the Right Way. Allah knows your enemies very well. Sufficient is Allah to protect you, and Sufficient is Allah to help you.

Quran 109:1-6 Say: O unbelievers! I worship not that you worship, nor will you worship that which I worship. I shall never worship those gods whom you worship, nor it appears will you ever worship Allah, whom I worship. To you be your religion, and to me mine.

Peace!

I am looking to get a Qur'an myself. I notice that you quote the Qur'an, because that is the only Islam Scriptures I get to read even though I see it the way you see the NT Bible. I am still interested. I don't know you heart, but God does. I said, I think I understand, and I believe that God was showing about you, but I could be mistaken. Jesus said, "Wherefore by their fruits you shall know them." I know that you don't believe what witnesses heard Jesus say about Himself and recorded. For instance, that He is the only way to the Father. Do you know what Jesus meant by that?

Peace
 
How would you know what was in my heart over 26 years ago?

Quran 4:44-45 Have you not considered the case of those to whom a portion of the Book was given? They purchased error for themselves and wish to see you lose the Right Way. Allah knows your enemies very well. Sufficient is Allah to protect you, and Sufficient is Allah to help you.

Quran 109:1-6 Say: O unbelievers! I worship not that you worship, nor will you worship that which I worship. I shall never worship those gods whom you worship, nor it appears will you ever worship Allah, whom I worship. To you be your religion, and to me mine.

Peace!

I am not your enemy, and I don't believe you are mine. But we are engage in spiritual warfare for we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against principalities and spiritual wickedness in high places. The devil is the enemy who looks only to kill, steal and destroy.
Peace
 
I am not your enemy, and I don't believe you are mine. But we are engage in spiritual warfare for we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against principalities and spiritual wickedness in high places. The devil is the enemy who looks only to kill, steal and destroy.
Peace

Greetings AJ,

Don't fret. you are not seen as an enemy. Most of us really do understand that you are speaking out of love for humanity and not out of personal ego.

I believe the majority of us agree with your statement:

The devil is the enemy who looks only to kill, steal and destroy.

i know you are very much aware that as Muslims we pray a minimum of 5 times a day. However, those are simply the required prayers. As a Muslim it is hard to think of what is not a prayer. Our prayers do differ a bit from the nature of what most organized religions view as prayer. we view each and every action, word and thought as a prayer. we begin all things with the words: Bismillallahi ir Rahman ir Raheem.(In the Name of Allah(swt), the Benevolent, the All Merciful) This is not a ritual thing it is a heart felt reminder that all things are to be for the worship of Allah. we are also very much aware of the presence of Shaytan. He is ever ready to bring us distraction and to cloud our thoughts. For that reason several times a day minimum and every time we feel the slightest presence of Shaytan we will pray to Allah(swt) to protect us from Shaytan. With the words AUDHU BILLAHI MIN ASH SHAYTAN AR RAJIM- meaning 'I seek protection in Allah from the accursed satan.'

As Muslims we are servants of Allah(swt) and of Him alone. No matter how beautiful or how tempting it may be to serve another. We can not serve another no matter who that person may be. Allah(swt) alone is to be served, not any of his creations nor of any presented as his equal. Allah(swt) is the only path to Allah(swt) we are very much aware that some of the alleged paths to Allah(swt) are full of much beauty and offer much hope and love. But, we see those paths as misdirecting us from our need to serve Allah(swt)
 
As Muslims we are servants of Allah(swt) and of Him alone. No matter how beautiful or how tempting it may be to serve another. We can not serve another no matter who that person may be. Allah(swt) alone is to be served, not any of his creations nor of any presented as his equal. Allah(swt) is the only path to Allah(swt) we are very much aware that some of the alleged paths to Allah(swt) are full of much beauty and offer much hope and love. But, we see those paths as misdirecting us from our need to serve Allah(swt)

yes ı can find nothing to add these words..

WE LOVE CREATURES BECAUSE ALLAH CREATED THEM....NO MATTER WHAT KİND OF CREATURE İT İS..MEN,ANİMAL OR PLANT.. ANYTHİN WE SEE OR NOT SEE
 
I don't know you heart, but God does. I said, I think I understand, and I believe that God was showing about you, but I could be mistaken.
Yes, God alone knows what is in my heart and my intentions.
Jesus said, "Wherefore by their fruits you shall know them."
Matthew 7:15-16 Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravening wolves. By their fruits ye shall know them. Do [men] gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Personally, I understand this as a warning against false prophets that were to come after Jesus to mislead people. You would believe this to be a warning against Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), but I interpret it to be a warning against Saul (Paul) who was instrumental in establishing Christianity as we know it today. Read Galatians with an open mind that it was a letter from a man to a church that was deviating from what he had taught them.

I know that you don't believe what witnesses heard Jesus say about Himself and recorded. For instance, that He is the only way to the Father. Do you know what Jesus meant by that?

Peace
There are some things in the NT that I don't believe Jesus (pbuh) actually said. However, I do not reject the ones that agree with the message of the Quran.
 
I am not your enemy, and I don't believe you are mine. But we are engage in spiritual warfare for we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against principalities and spiritual wickedness in high places. The devil is the enemy who looks only to kill, steal and destroy.
Peace
I don't see you as an enemy either. I went too far down when I copied that passage in the Quran about the People of the Book. Muslims have the hadith as another source for our religion, but I rely on the Quran as the first, primary source.

Yes, I too see Satan as public enemy #1. Quran 15:39-40 Iblees (Satan) said: "Rabb! Since You let me go astray, I will make evil fair-seeming to them on earth and I will seduce them all except those of them who are Your sincere devotees." I think you would agree that Satan has misled either the Christians or the Muslims and that the one that is misled is no less sincere than the one who is on the "Straight Path".
 
I just realize that you probably have heard very little of the Ahadith. the Ahadith (plural for Hadith) are writings from witnesses to accounts in the Prophet's(PBUH) Life.

These have a closer correlation to what you call the Gospels than the Qur'an has.

They are the written accounts of the Prophet's disciples Much like the books of the Gospel are written accounts of the disciples of Isa(as).

We do not consider the Ahadith to be inspired or the word of Allah(swt) They are the true eye witness accounts.

The Qur'an is the word of Allah(swt) the Ahadith are eye witness accounts of how Muhammad(swt) taught it, obeyed it, and worshiped Allah(swt). The Qur'an tells us the truth, the Ahadith is our guide on how to live it.

The Injil would have been the message given to Isa(as) and was to be spread. But, those who came after Isa(as) failed to spread the Injil. The Apostles were the witnesses as to what Isa(as) did and said. But as apostles and not prophets they are not infallible and their word is not the inspired word of Allah(swt) As a result it is subject to error, change and corruption. the truth of it can only be validated if the Injil still existed to compare with the witnesses.
 
Last edited:
Posts from "answering Christianity" are allowed, but posts from "answering Islam" are not?
 
sure I am game with that... considering islamic responses are readily deleted from Christian websites and blogs... I think we are pretty darn allowing -- Muslims are always respectful to Jesus PBUH... wish I can say Muslims are granted that same courtesy on Christian forums !

peace!
 
sure I am game with that... considering islamic responses are readily deleted from Christian websites and blogs... I think we are pretty darn allowing -- Muslims are always respectful to Jesus PBUH... wish I can say Muslims are granted that same courtesy on Christian forums !

peace!

I've never been to a Christian forum, so I don't have a comment on that. I understand the reasoning behind barring anything from "answering Islam"...perhaps it is naive, but I still hope we can get away from cutting and pasting things from "anti" anything sites. It doesn't elevate the conversation in any way.
 
Is there a site called 'answeringthephone'?

If there is, I wouldn't try posting stuff from there on a Nokia forum, boy howdy.
 
Posts from "answering Christianity" are allowed, but posts from "answering Islam" are not?

Apart from what many people have already pointed out, that this is an islamic forum. There is also a big difference between answering christianity and answering Islam.

1. A.I. is offensive (attacks a religion)
while A.C. is defensive (defend those attacks).
2. A.C. is open (attempts to establish constructive conversation by answering the questions raised)
whereas A.I completely ignores A.C. (refuses to take down articles even though they have been sent logical and obvious refutations and been shown the fallacy of their attacks)
 
I've never been to a Christian forum, so I don't have a comment on that. I understand the reasoning behind barring anything from "answering Islam"...perhaps it is naive, but I still hope we can get away from cutting and pasting things from "anti" anything sites. It doesn't elevate the conversation in any way.

I have always been an advocate of distilling your understanding of an article or a book to communicate what you are trying to say in simple language ... some feel, cut and paste, can articulate better or is put in a more refined tongue, and it is their right so long as they attach the site from which they have copied and the reader may well decipher what he may.

... It is still my sincere hope for an honest exchange for several already sunk to the bottom threads, evolution/ creation to name a few.. otherwise what is the point? I can always walk to borders and pick the book of my choice to reflect or oppose my views...

However, that can be best achieved in subjects of science or others of the nature where some logic has to be applied... When it comes to religion, some are simply better read and have a more accurate historical account of the events than others, therefore-- I don't see the harm!

peace!
 
Apart from what many people have already pointed out, that this is an islamic forum. There is also a big difference between answering christianity and answering Islam.

1. A.I. is offensive (attacks a religion)
while A.C. is defensive (defend those attacks).
2. A.C. is open (attempts to establish constructive conversation by answering the questions raised)
whereas A.I completely ignores A.C. (refuses to take down articles even though they have been sent logical and obvious refutations and been shown the fallacy of their attacks)

Really? Perhaps you should check out the link in question and tell me how "constructive" and "defensive".
 
Really? Perhaps you should check out the link in question and tell me how "constructive" and "defensive".

Ok, I stand corrected I was unaware that there were articles like that on that site to, the articles I had mostly seen on answering christianity were the ones refuting the articles of answering Islam. Which was the main reason of making this site in the first place if I understand correctly. Now it seems they have indeed sinked to the same level.
 
Just for the record I have not deleted the post because of any other posts on here, I rather wanted to delete it, for several reasons:

1. In many places it had nothing to do with the topic.

2. When a non Muslim comes here and posts articles with 20 points Muslims point out that for clarity we should tackle one by one, and Muslims are right in saying so, for if one is sincere one by one will be ok, that's another reason I deleted it since it was 20 or so points most having nothing with the topic

3. Most of the points actually are indicative of generalisation, for example, not praying like Jesus, I know some Christians who do pray like Jesus, furthermore, there are ways to explain away those points brought up, which I as a Muslim could even do.

Anyhow yall get the picture, so back on topic please.

Eesa
 
You have raised some interesting points. The Bible and the story of Jesus goes back further than Muhammad or 1400 years ago, but the Bible has passed through some language translations, but yes, we do have access to the original text in Hebrew and Greek.

No you don't, there are copies of copies in the Greek text but the Original Text does not exist, similarly there is not a whole Hebrew Text until very late.

The whole art of textual critisism would not exist if there was the Original Text with us.

There are definitely transnational errors in the Bible and some problems where there appears to be even contradictions, but never concerning the deity of Christ.

Again another mistake, the most famous addition being that in 1 John 5:7 Which not only afffected the Diety of Chirst but rather the Trinity as a whole. There are other places where changes are made.

Things might be worded differently because of the different witnesses, and not everyone sees the same things in the same way.

Another smoke screen, this is one of the possabilities, another being that the authors driven by some sort of preconcieved ideas or maybe just by the information they had recieved wrote different. If the differences between the Gospels had no patterns your position that they were just different view points would be a position which would be possible, but the fact that the changes are the same throughout this is something which rules out your theory.

The message is clear in the Bible however.

It is only clear if one approaches the Bible with an idea already in mind!!

When Jesus asked who do you say I am, the disciple said you are the Son of the living God.

Well not in Mark's Gospel, so if we only had Mark's Gospel, which would be the case since in early times the Gospels were seperate, then we would only have that Jesus is the Messiah, if we had Luke's Gospel we would have that Jesus is the Messiah of God, which both Muslims agree with, but if we have Matthew, then it says Jesus is the Son of the Living God, which Muslims disagree with.

And for the record Mark is the earliest.


If Jesus asks you who do you say I am, what would you say?

If I was the Author of Mark I'd tell you Jesus is the Messiah, if I was the author of Luke I'd tell you Jesus is the Messiah of God, and if I was, and Alhamdulillah I am, Eesa Abdullah I would tell you Eesa is Abdullah.

References are available upon request: Jesus said, "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life" He said, "No one comes unto the Father (Allah, God Almighty, The Lord) but by Me"

I believe the same about Muhammad peace be upon him. In no way does the above mean Jesus being anything.

Mary worshipped him on His feet. He didn't try to stop her in the way angels or any men of God would for people doing that.

Do you know the meaning of the word used for worship? If I were to show you another person in the Bible who was worshipped, and he was a good man and didn't rebuke the people would you worship him?

Jesus said, "Before Abraham was I AM"

Another man said I AM too, this make him God? Furthermore, he, jesus is not quoted as saying I am what I am, furthermore, the Hebrew of Moses doesnt always translate as I Am what I AM.

Abit wierd also, only John recorded that, a claim of being God and only John spoke of it? And John tends to be the one who is different and speaks of Jesus in a different way, what a coincidence.

When Thomas put his hand in the wounds that put Jesus to death, he said of Jesus "My Lord and my God."

You ever had anyone who you thought was dead reappear? I'd scream SubhnaAllah wa Alhamdulillah, or Ya Rabbi Ya Allah, or if I saw the person I prolly say 'Oh John, Oh My God' and so forth, actually there was a police show in which they undercover arrested this lady who put a hit out on her husband, a policeman played hitman and showed her fake pics of her husband dead, anyhow, the police then interviewed her, and let her husband walk in the room, the husband who she thought she had seen dead, she freaked out saying Oh Lord and other such phrases while hugging the man, is he her God?

Jesus didn't explicitly say He was God because He wanted you to realize it for yourself.

Doesn't sound like the Character of God, in the Old Testament God told everyone who he was.

Philip said show us the Father and we'll be happy. Jesus said I have been with you. Don't you know me.

Exactly, why do we need to see God if we see His Miracles, especially Prophets and Messengers.

Jesus said I am the Alpha and Omega beginning and the end.

Please bring proof. From Revelation I guess.

God said the same about Himself in Isaiah. He said there is no God besides me and I share not my glory with another. Jesus claims these titles unto Himself.

No he didnt claim nothing for himself, I can of my own self do nothing. Jesus was given everything he had.

Jesus is named Immanuel that means GOD with us.

This doesn't add nothing, it's a name, I'm called Eesa, but I'm not Eesa Ibn Maryam. For my benefit show me where Jesus is named Immanuel.

It is written do not be like the Ox that needs a bit and bridle to see what truth is. He said, I am in the Father and the Father is in me. He is the exact representation of all that God is He is in the very nature God.

He according to the quote says that the disciples should be or are one with him and God, cant remember which but its in John 17.

What is the difference in essences if you put the bag in the cup or put the cup in the bag? It is equal in mass and weight even if the volume is different. Jesus was a man so the man part of Him was under the Father’s authority, but He was no less deity. Just like you have a son who is under you, but he is no less human than you.

as the Bible states He is

The Bible does not state Jesus is God.

If I am not mistaken, according to the Qur’an Mohammed is the messenger, but according to the Bible Jesus is the Message.

What makes Jesus the message, what qualities define someone being the message.

I like to compare and contrast the two. Jesus was born of a virgin that is a confirmed fact according to both the Bible and the Qur’an. Jesus according to the Qur’an is like the Bible says the Word of God. Some twist it to say He is a word just like the JW's twist their Watch tower version of the Bible to say that the word was a god.

Do you know Arabic or Greek? First, in Arabic for example you'd say Haadha Masjidun, This Masjid, but it would be This is a Masjid, because the meaning is there, in order to accomodate this meaning into the english language a is put. With Greek also, the actual Greek word in John1:1 is different when it speaks of The Word God and The God!


Jesus was born of a virgin not Mohammed. Jesus rose from the dead (which you don’t believe) not Mohammed.

If God allowes a blind person to see, but you've always been able to see does this mean the Blind person is better than you? Or if two blind people are there and one is cured does this mean that he is better? Of course not! People who are athiest might be cured of a small illness but a Christian in another country might dies, does this mean that Athiest is better?
 
Last edited:

Similar Threads

Back
Top