Jesus - only a worm ?

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I will confess that you have raised a good question with regard to the title "Everlasting Father" being applied to Jesus. Because you are also correct that with regard to the doctrine of the Trinity, one of the key facets of that teaching is while there are three personas in one being, that there still remains distinctions between them so that the father is not the son, nor the son the father, though they be one.

There does indeed appear to be some incongruity between those two statements. And honestly I don't know the best way to address that at the moment. I would have to do some major reflecting and review of the passage in question if you want me to articulate more than an off the cuff response. I think Glo's pointing to Jesus' comments about he and the Father being one might be helpful, but I don't pretend that they solve this issue. Another might be that we need to better understand what Isaiah was trying to say in that passage and be careful that we don't misapply the titles in ways beyond their intent. So, I do appreciate the question, but I don't see it as significant enough to challenge the overall Christian understanding of the nature and character of God nor our identification of Jesus as the divine son of God. Is this the sort of serious question that would change the nature of your view of Jesus if resolved?
 
As for Jesus being described as Everlasting Father, perhaps this might help:

Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves
(John 14:9-11)
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Well, what about the verse

"He that hath seen me hath seen the father."


Let us look at the context:


"Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?"

John 14:8-9


Philip wanted to see God with his own eyes, but this is impossible since no one can ever do ever do that. The Bible says:


"No man hath seen God at any time,"

John 1:18


"No man hath seen God at any time,"

1 John 4:12


So Jesus simply told him that his own actions and miracles should be a sufficient proof of the existence of God without God having to physically come down and let himself be seen every time someone is doubtful. This is equivalent to for example


John 8:19: "Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also."
John 12:44 "Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me."
John 15:23 "He that hateth me hateth my Father also."
Matthew 10:40-41 "He that receiveth you receiveth me (Jesus), and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me. He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward."

If we want to insist that when Philip saw Jesus (pbuh), he had actually physically seen God "the Father" because Jesus "is" the father and both are one "Trinity," and Jesus is the "incarnation" of God, then this will force us to conclude that John 1:18, 1 John 4:12, ..etc. are all lies.


Well, is Philip the only one who ever "saw the father"? Let us read:


"Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father."

John 6:46


Who is this who "is of God" and had seen the Father you ask? Let us once again ask the Bible:


"He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God."

John 8:47.


And

"Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God"

3 John 1:11.


Have all people who have done good also physically seen God?
 
Back on topic

The term son of man neither in Job nor any other OT book should be understood to be a reference to Jesus...
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To further support that verse , Jesus the so-called God does in fact call himself a worm

Psalm 22:6

But I am a worm and not a man,
scorned by men and despised by the people.
Click to expand...
 
Airforce said:
Back on topic



To further support that verse , Jesus the so-called God does in fact call himself a worm
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Where on Earth did you get the idea Jesus wrote Psalm 22? Tradition ascribes the Psalm to David, and David calls himself a worm, which he is indeed in comparison to God. I'm interested; whatever gave you the idea Jesus took a day off from teaching parables, healing illnesses and rising to life from death to write a poem that was already included in Psalms?
 
Supreme said:
Where on Earth did you get the idea Jesus wrote Psalm 22? Tradition ascribes the Psalm to David, and David calls himself a worm, which he is indeed in comparison to God. I'm interested; whatever gave you the idea Jesus took a day off from teaching parables, healing illnesses and rising to life from death to write a poem that was already included in Psalms?
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I stand corrected and i had mistaken the word posted here as Jesus' words

http://www.islamicboard.com/compara...say-jesus-pbuh-not-crucified.html#post1277265
 
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^^ A debate centered around bible is guaranteed to never end because those numerous contradictory verses could be used to support anyone's stance on so many things.
Christians could always thank the authors of the bible for it!
 
Greetings and peace be with you naidamar;

We should constantly thank God, that he inspired so many authors to write the Bible, in the way God intended.

Despite all our differences, the same God hears all our prayers, somehow we are all related to each other through One God.

In the spirit of praying for a greater interfaith understanding.

Eric
 

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