Jesus Perfect God and Perfect Man?

[evangel]

Why Jesus did never told anyone to Worship him.

Matthew 3:16-17
And when Jesus was baptized, he went up immediately from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and alighting on him;
and lo, a voice from heaven, saying, "This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased."

Pronounced as the Son of God

Matthew 9:2
And behold, they brought to him a paralytic, lying on his bed; and when Jesus saw their faith he said to the paralytic, "Take heart, my son; your sins are forgiven."

Who but God can forgive sins?

Matthew 9:28
When he entered the house, the blind men came to him; and Jesus said to them, "Do you believe that I am able to do this?" They said to him, "Yes, Lord."

Many times refered to as Lord

Matthew 10:18
and you will be dragged before governors and kings for my sake, to bear testimony before them and the Gentiles.

For His sake or in His name

Matthew 10:38-39
and he who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me.
He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for my sake will find it

To be worthy as in worthy of the Lord

Matthew 11:27
All things have been delivered to me by my Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and any one to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.

He alone came from heaven and upon His final return He will bring His flock

Matthew 12:7-8
And if you had known what this means, ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the guiltless.
For the Son of man is lord of the sabbath."

Quite the claim for just a man

Matthew 14:33
And those in the boat worshiped him, saying, "Truly you are the Son of God."

His disciples recognize who He is. Eleven of the twelve apostles died as martyrs. Men do not die so readily for a fallicy.

Matthew 15:27-28
She said, "Yes, Lord, yet even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters’ table."
[28]: Then Jesus answered her, "O woman, great is your faith! Be it done for you as you desire." And her daughter was healed instantly

Great was her faith in the master (God)

Matthew 16:15-16
He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?"
Simon Peter replied, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."

Again His disciples recognize who He is

Matthew 16:18-19
And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.
I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

His church and who but God can give the keys of the kingdom of heaven

Matthew 16:27-28
For the Son of man is to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay every man for what he has done.
Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom."

His angels, His kingdom

Matthew 17:5
He was still speaking, when lo, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and a voice from the cloud said, "This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased; listen to him."

Stated for a second time

Matthew 18:20
For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I in the midst of them."

In the name of Jesus, in the name of God

Matthew 20:21
And he said to her, "What do you want?" She said to him, "Command that these two sons of mine may sit, one at your right hand and one at your left, in your kingdom."

His kingdom

Matthew 20:28
even as the Son of man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many."

The big "Why?"

Matthew 21:13
He said to them, "It is written, ‘My house shall be called a house of prayer’; but you make it a den of robbers."

The house of worship was His house

Matthew 24:29-31
"Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken;
then will appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory;
and he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

His return with His angels. Do you have any angels? Me either.

Matthew 27:50-54
And Jesus cried again with a loud voice and yielded up his spirit.
And behold, the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom; and the earth shook, and the rocks were split;
the tombs also were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised,
and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many.
When the centurion and those who were with him, keeping watch over Jesus, saw the earthquake and what took place, they were filled with awe, and said, "Truly this was the Son of God!"

Even a Roman sees Him for who He is

 

[evangel]

i_m_tipu
P.S. Sorry for the delay, I've been moving and had to photograph a wedding.

 

[evangel]

God and Man have opposite properties

In the Bible it says we were created in His image. As a Christian I believe that God is a trinity of three parts that together form the one God; Father, Son and Holy Spirit. That is the image Christians believe we are made in. We are Created as a trinity; soul, flesh and spirit. Our soul is the emotional and intellectual part of us, our flesh is our physical presence and our spirit is that part of us which is not of this world and is in communion with the Holy Spirit. In God no one part is better than another but the Father leads, the Son is our mediator and savior and the Holy Spirit is our guide and teacher. I strive to have my spirit lead because the other two parts have been tainted by this world.

and therefore one cannot be 100% of both simultaneously.

You're right, He is 100% of all three at the same time. I am 100% of each; soul and flesh and spirit 100% of the time. It's which one leads that makes a difference.

 

[i_m_tipu]

Thanks for ur reply

You answering the post# 69
Read the entire post. There are some logics with questions. It can’t not be called good explanation if you just give the answer with a single thought.

This thread makes me interested.

He alone came from heaven and upon His final return He will bring His flock

what's ur point.

Where did the soul coming from

I don't know yet what Christian believe

We (Muslim) believe every Soul was/is/will come from heaven. (I believe it’s more logical than any)

Even a Roman sees Him for who He is.

Roman used to say Lord to almost every superior personal.

"And behold, they brought to him a paralytic, lying on his bed; and when Jesus saw their faith he said to the paralytic, "Take heart, my son; your sins are forgiven ."

concern of the transition
Every prophet done that. not exactly the same word you saying
Problem is no prophet is God But Jesus is God.
How come, there is only a single time a prophet becomes a God.

Hard to find any difference between jesus and other prophets.

But Jesus is God and the other prophet is not God.

Pronounced as the Son of God

"You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."

The house of worship was His house

Many times referred to as Lord

that period of time to still now
Mighty person or superior leader or powerful or respectful person called as
"My Load" (such as Chief judge called as "My Lord" {May God forbid})
It’s a tradition of the people calling impressive/whatever person a “My Lord”

This “My Lord” do never makes a man God.

Look it Very important…….

I have also lot of verses that refer jesus is not God at all.

When speaking of the Day of Judgement, Jesus clearly gave evidence of a limitation on his knowledge when he said, "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in Heaven, neither the son, but the Father." (Mark 13:32 and Matt. 24:36) But God knows all. His knowledge is without any limitations. That Jesus, of his own admission, did not know when the Day of Judgement would be, is clear proof that Jesus is not all-knowing, and that Jesus is therefore not God.

(Mark 13:32 and Matt. 24:36) “But God knows all. His knowledge is without any limitations. “
That Jesus, of his own admission, did not know when the Day of Judgment would be.

While Jesus performed many miracles, he himself admitted that the power he had was not his own but was derived from God when he said, "Verily, verily I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do..." (John 5:19).
Again he said, "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will but the will of the Father which has sent me." (John 5:30) “
But God is not only All-Powerful, He is also the source of all power and authority. “
That Jesus, of his own admission, could do nothing on his own is clear proof that Jesus is not all-powerful.

While thousands saw Jesus and heard his voice, Jesus himself said that this could not be done with God when he said:
"No man hath seen God at any time." (John 1:18).
"Ye have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His shape." (John 5:37)
He also said in
John 4:24: "God is a spirit and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth."​

Now it is good enough to makes a man saying”oh im lost”

You can probe according to some translations that jesus is some how close to be called God for the miracles he had.
But you must know that every prophet had miracles.

It is not the debate that on that time follow jesus word is equal to follow Gods word.
Bcoz following any Prophet's word equal to follow Gods word. (if the real word exits)

Prophets are guided by God. And following Prophet is indeed following God.

Jesus really never say “he is God” also never directly say “worship me”.

It’s a understanding of some priests that

Some believe jesus and the God are same being. Now lot of Christian proves it wrong.
Some believe in trinity 1+1+1=1 :-\

You must understand reforming the religion can not be happen. Bcoz reform mean religion had error that also mean God gave error massage.
but reform in understanding can be happan(only those thing what prophet did not explained/not recorded).

Reality is God never gave error massage. It’s a man who make the massage error in order to stronger their (some priest) thought or nothing else.

But I can show you the voice of God.
[This Verse 2:255 is called Ayat-ul-Kursi.]

Allah! La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He), the Ever Living, the One Who sustains and protects all that exists. Neither slumber, nor sleep overtake Him. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on earth. Who is he that can intercede with Him except with His Permission? He knows what happens to them (His creatures) in this world, and what will happen to them in the Hereafter . And they will never compass anything of His Knowledge except that which He wills. His Kursi extends over the heavens and the earth, and He feels no fatigue in guarding and preserving them. And He is the Most High, the Most Great.​

That is how God gave u order to worship him.

Chapter 5, Verses 116-117

“And behold! Allah will say "O Jesus the son of Mary! didst thou say unto men `worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah"? He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing Thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart though I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden. "Never said I to them aught except what Thou didst command me to say to wit `Worship Allah my Lord and your Lord'; and I was a witness over them whilst I dwelt amongst them; when Thou didst take me up thou wast the Watcher over them and Thou art a Witness to all things.”​

so true…..
Never did jesus say worship him and his mother.
Simply Bcoz he has no right to say it.

the explanation u gave do not probe jesus say "Worship me".

this "Worship me" cannot be a indirect order. if it comming from God.

 

[Phil12123]

i find it difficult to fathom that God would appear on earth in human form, when other main religions claim (and the bible) that God is not born. So i'm sure you'd appreciate that this is a very difficult statement just to accept without questioning, no?

Also Jesus on the cross made the following statement 'My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?' Why would he say this to God if he was God himself? Is he talking to himself? You see what i'm aiming at? As i've said before, i'm not knocking your faith just trying to learn more about it!

I truly question your sincerity in making the above statements/questions. You've heard answers to this sort of thing time and time again, so why do you persist? Read all my posts in the past, and after doing that, if you still don't know the answers, I will repost something I said in the past or rephrase it.

Peace

 

[Curious girl2]

well Iam waiting for some christains point of views.... Only one has told me his view.

Hmm I am probably not the best person to do this but......

For me God and Jesus are not one and the same. I just cannot get my head around the whole trinity thing. I was brought up Christian, my father was a vicar before he died, but alot of the Christian teachings, especially in regard to the trinity, I couldnt get my head around. I used to have many discussions with my Dad about this, though his replies were usually that we should just beleive, never could do that.

I suppose that is why I ended up here.

Peace
CG