Jesus thought JIHAD

[Ramadhan]

Jesus was in the OT? o.o

Majority christians believe jesus is God. and God killed babies in the OT.
I've heard also in this forum, christians express their believe that God in the OT was Jesus.

 

[Riana17]

I for once agree with you on this.

Christians seem to have this kind of mind disconnect between what is in their bible and what they perceive in mind. Even Jesus killed babies in the OT.

Meanwhile, Islam does not shun from violence because it is a fact of life, and violence is necessary in certain situation. However, in Islam, the use of violence is strictly regulated, for example like in war.

Salam Alaikkum

Wow that is another information, I am really baby when it comes to knowing the bible or Quran. I envy you brother Ramadhan, you could answer most of querries of deen, are you Shaikh or Mulla?

 

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you Ramadhan;

Majority christians believe jesus is God. and God killed babies in the OT.
I've heard also in this forum, christians express their believe that God in the OT was Jesus

.
Yes I believe that God and Jesus are 'one' but it may be better for you to ignore my beliefs on this.:hmm:
When God looks at all the injustice, greed, and wars today, I think the only way God could put all things right, is to end mankind today, and start again.
In the Old Testament there are many instances, of God killing off every man woman and children in a city, and of course there was the flood.
I believe in each of these instances mankind had caused so much injustice, that the regrettable solution for God was to end life.
In some societies murderers are condemned to death, it seems that mankind has no other solution, to stop these people killing again.
Unlike a human judge and jury, God will know the intentions and actions of all the people killed in the flood.
This life on Earth is only temporary, and God can put all things right, he can bring all people back to a greater life after death. God is forgiving and merciful, I do not believe that any of us deserve eternal salvation. We rely on the mercy and grace of God to grant us salvation.
.
In the spirit of praying for justice for all people
Eric

 

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you Ramadhan;
.

Meanwhile, Islam does not shun from violence because it is a fact of life, and violence is necessary in certain situation. However, in Islam, the use of violence is strictly regulated, for example like in war

.
Although violence is strictly regulated, I do believe the prophet pbuh, preferred forgiveness and getting on with others.
.
When I look at the achievements of mankind, I am in a kind of awe, we put people in space, massive achievements in medicine, buildings, computers, etc, etc.
Yet with all our wonderful knowledge, we are all stupid, when it comes to the little things of living together, with justice for all people.
Sharing and caring are far easier to understand than rocket science, why can we do the rocket science but not the caring and sharing?
A billion people live on less than a dollar a day, people of all religions and no religion. Twenty five thousand children die needlessly every day from grinding poverty. and preventable disease, then there is the stupidity of war.
We are all created by the same God, and the same God hears all our prayers. God has given us enough resources for everyone, and I believe we sin against God, when we ignore justice for the poor.
.
In the spirit of praying for justice for all people
Eric

 

[Who Am I?]

Greetings and peace be with you Ramadhan;
.

.
Although violence is strictly regulated, I do believe the prophet pbuh, preferred forgiveness and getting on with others.
.
When I look at the achievements of mankind, I am in a kind of awe, we put people in space, massive achievements in medicine, buildings, computers, etc, etc.
Yet with all our wonderful knowledge, we are all stupid, when it comes to the little things of living together, with justice for all people.
Sharing and caring are far easier to understand than rocket science, why can we do the rocket science but not the caring and sharing?
A billion people live on less than a dollar a day, people of all religions and no religion. Twenty five thousand children die needlessly every day from grinding poverty. and preventable disease, then there is the stupidity of war.
We are all created by the same God, and the same God hears all our prayers. God has given us enough resources for everyone, and I believe we sin against God, when we ignore justice for the poor.
.
In the spirit of praying for justice for all people
Eric

I think most people don't want to believe in God, because by accepting that there is a God, they have to acknowledge that they themselves are not superior, and that there is a moral code in place by which we should guide ourselves. With no God, there is no standard of morality, and therefore you can do whatever you want without regard for anyone or anything else. Denying the existence of God is a way to justify doing whatever you want and not being accountable for your actions, because hey, there is no God and therefore, no sense of justice or morality.

That's my take on why the world is like it is, because we as a creation have turned away from our Creator.

 

[Perseveranze]

Jesus was in the OT? o.o

Yup, since Christians believe Jesus(pbuh) = God. And the OT was revealed BEFORE,"God" came down to Earth and sacrificed himself for everyone's sins.

 

[Iconodule]

The situation and the circumstance have changed and as with any wise and able general, the strategy must also change. The disciples were already armed. They had some foresight. They had not left Galilee with bare knuckles. They responded


". . . Lord, behold, here are two SWORDS." And he said unto them, "It is enough". (Luke 22:38)

"It is enough" being the key words here. Two swords are enough for what? Defending Jesus, his 12 apostles, and the other disciples? I assure you the Pharisees and the Romans had more than 2 swords at their disposal. This is a case of the disciples misunderstanding Jesus, taking his words too literally, hence he says "it is enough."

The missionary, so as to retain the impression of the "meek and gentle Jesus", "the Prince ofPeace", pleads that the SWORDS were spiritual! If the swords were spiritual, then the"garments" must also be spiritual. If the disciples of Jesus were to sell their SPIRITUAL garments to buy SPIRITUAL swords, in thatcase they would all become SPIRITUALLY naked!

St. Ambrose gives one of several interpretations- that the garment refers to the body and the sword refers to martyrdom. In other words, the disciples must prepare to lay aside their "garments" (their bodies) and accept martyrdom.

And, behold, one of those who were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his SWORD, and struck a servant of the high priest's, and cut off his ear." (Matthew 26:51)

The only purpose of swords or guns is to maim and to kill. People did not carry swords to pare apples and bananas in the time of Christ.

The swords had in fact been used in slaying and dressing the paschal lamb previously eaten by the apostles. And you forget to mention that Christ immediately admonishes Peter and heals the servant's ear.

John 18:36: "Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence."

 

[Ramadhan]

"But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me.
After Jesus had said this, he went on ahead, going up to Jerusalem."

Luke 19: 27 - 28

I can't wait for a christian to come here and say it's a parable.

Basically for christians, anything Jesus said or did that doesn't conform with their own beliefs/tradition/current opinion/current society trend, they would claim it's all parable, meaningless, and/or actually means the opposite.

Not much has changed since the pagan latins tweaked jesus (pbuh) actual teachings to conform to their own pagan beliefs.

 

[Iconodule]

"But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me.
After Jesus had said this, he went on ahead, going up to Jerusalem."

Luke 19: 27 - 28

I can't wait for a christian to come here and say it's a parable.
.

Read the quote in its context yourself, and you can tell us whether it's a parable or not:

[SUP]12[/SUP]He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return. [SUP]13[/SUP]And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
[SUP]14[/SUP]But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.
[SUP]15[/SUP]And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
[SUP]16[/SUP]Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.
[SUP]17[/SUP]And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
[SUP]18[/SUP]And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.
[SUP]19[/SUP]And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.
[SUP]20[/SUP]And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin:
[SUP]21[/SUP]For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.
[SUP]22[/SUP]And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:
[SUP]23[/SUP]Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?
[SUP]24[/SUP]And he said unto them that stood by, Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds.
[SUP]25[/SUP](And they said unto him, Lord, he hath ten pounds.)
[SUP]26[/SUP]For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.
[SUP]27[/SUP]But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.
[SUP]28[/SUP]And when he had thus spoken, he went before, ascending up to Jerusalem.

 

[Iconodule]

Pardon me, I omitted verse 11, at the beginning:

[SUP]11[/SUP]And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.

 

[Ramadhan]

Read the quote in its context yourself, and you can tell us whether it's a parable or not:

As I have suspected, no sooner than I said I expected a christian to come up it's all parable, one actually did

Let's say the story that Jesus (pbuh) was a parable, and for anyone who can read english, it was clear that Jesus (pbuh) identified himself with the Lord in the story, and that he approved with the slaying and killing of his enemies, otherwise why would he bother saying the last part if he had not approved.

 

[Iconodule]

Let's say the story that Jesus (pbuh) was a parable,

No need for us to say it, the gospel already does: "he added and spake a parable."

and for anyone who can read english, it was clear that Jesus (pbuh) identified himself with the Lord in the story

He also identifies himself as the True Vine. Is he really a plant?

 

[FS123]

If someone wants to kill you, why wait for them to come and take you by suprise, instead just gather them and end it.

Is that hard to comprehend?

He has a point, and this is not Islamic concept of Jihad.

 

[Ramadhan]

He also identifies himself as the True Vine. Is he really a plant?

Do you think Jesus (p) disagreed with killing the enemies as done by the Lord in the parable?

Because to me, it is clear that he did.

 

[Iconodule]

Do you think Jesus (p) disagreed with killing the enemies as done by the Lord in the parable?

Because to me, it is clear that he did.

The Lord's parable is referring to the last judgment where he will certainly condemn the unbelievers to eternal death (Hell). The Lord's first coming was meek and forbearing, but his return will be terrible. We are to pattern our lives after his first appearance, and leave the judgment to God.

God commands us as human beings to love our enemies, pray for our persecutors, and be long-suffering. Unfortunately there are some "Christians" who have agreed with your interpretation and who argue that Christians have a duty to murder unbelievers. As a result, many innocent Muslims and people of other faiths have been murdered.

 

[Amigo]

Do you think Jesus (p) disagreed with killing the enemies as done by the Lord in the parable?

Do you know/remember why parables were used by Jesus?

 

[truthseeker63]

This is a good topic.

 

[Ramadhan]

The Lord's parable is referring to the last judgment where he will certainly condemn the unbelievers to eternal death (Hell). The Lord's first coming was meek and forbearing, but his return will be terrible. We are to pattern our lives after his first appearance, and leave the judgment to God.

I couldn't see any references to the last judgement in that passage.

And based on your theory of that verse, either way, Jesus actually doesn't love everybody, something that christians keep claiming.

 

[Ramadhan]

Do you know/remember why parables were used by Jesus?

Since you claim to know the language and the mind of Jesus (pbuh) please explain to me the meaning of that parable where he mentioned that the lord wanted to gather his enemies and kill them all?

Also, I would like to know exactly the original words that Jesus (pbuh) actually used in this passage.

 

[Iconodule]

I couldn't see any references to the last judgement in that passage.

As a parable, it uses figurative language, like the parables of the vineyard and the wicked husbandmen.

And based on your theory of that verse, either way, Jesus actually doesn't love everybody, something that christians keep claiming.

Even the sinners in Hell he loves, but it is their choice to be separated from them, and he will not destroy our free will.