Grace Seeker
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If it was the inacrnation of the son (God) then it was that incarnation of the father(God) as well, don't you think so?!
Don't you believe that Jesus and the father are one in substance?
Grace seeker ...why you always trying to give the impression that the Trinity makes sense?!!
Answering your last question first. Because it does to me. I don't pretend that it either does or even should make sense to everyone just because it does to me.
As to your other points/questions:
No, I do not believe that [the human] Jesus and the Father are of one substance.
What I believe is that the Son and the Father are of one substance, both being God. And I believe that Jesus is the incarnation of the Son. Therefore Jesus is God. But he is not the Father. The Father and the Son are different persons, yet still just one God.
Still, the distinctions I draw above are details. I only quibble over them because you asked. But, since I know that most Muslims identify Allah with the Christian description of the Father, therefore, I don't want to say that your previous statement is wrong. Especially in light of the fact that Jesus himself said, "I and the Father are one." But if you ask me to be more precise, it is then I have to draw the distinctions between the persons, even though I know that it will lead you and others to see tri-theism in what I have just said.
This is the tension within Christianity. On the one had we truly are (at least in our own mind) monotheists. We really do believe the statement of Deuteronomy 6:4 -- "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one."
And yet we also believe:
Romans 10:9
That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.
Philippians 2:10-12
10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.
How do we hold to these conflicting statements at the same time?
Some would answer that the the description of Jesus as Lord is only like the word "Sir" and means nothing. But that doesn't work in the context of the way Jesus is actually addressed, especially by people like the disciple Thomas who on seeing him following his resurrection:
John 20:28
Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"
Fortunately, the scriptures (that we recognize) themselves answer our problem by telling us:
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. (John 1:14a)
And at the same time that we are told that the Word became flesh (literally had a change in state) have previously been told, in John 1:1, that the Word was God (indicating a permament condition of the Word's being). Further the Gospel writer goes on to identify this Word (i.e. God) who put on flesh to be the man John the Baptist baptized and called the Lamb of God, Jesus of Nazareth.
So, from the Christian perspective we believe the Bible makes two statements, both of which we hold to be propositional truths:
1) there is but one God who created heaven and earth and all things in it.
2) Jesus, who was born of Mary, is God.
Since we also hold that the propositional truths of the Bible must in and of themselves be true (a point which I recognize non-Christians don't agree with), then we are left to live with the inherent tension of simultaneously holding as true what appear to be impossibly conflicted propostions.
Now for most, the mere appearance of that conflict would be enough to cast doubts upon the truth of one or perhaps even both propositions. I understand that. And I would probably join you in that where it not for my acceptance of the testimony of Christ's resurrection. Another seeming impossibility, that yet somehow rings true for me. And that being so, I am prepared to accept that there are things that seem impossible to me, that I cannot fully explain, but which I am prepared to accept as nonetheless true.
The Christian assertion that God is a singular triune being is not an attempt to explain away the tension that we must live with in holding what we know to be two conflicting truths at the same time. It is certainly not an attempt to define how it is that they are true or that God's nature works. It is merely a description of what we observe when we observe the action and character of the God we know. He is but one, yet exists in three persons known to us at the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
You can argue it doesn't make sense all you want. In the end we might even agree with you. But we will continue to also answer, that no matter how little sense it makes, we still observe it to be what is.
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