Let us find on what Islam and Christianity agree.

[Basit]

God revealed his plan to Noah, but no where in the Bible does it say that God asked Noah to warn the people about the coming flood nor does it appear therein that Noah ever attempted to do so on his own. He just built the boat, got the designated animals and his family on board. And God shut the door. Then the rains fell.

Al-Salam Alaykum,

Well then, the prophethood of Hud(puh) is a disagreement between our religions. Because in Islam he is a prophet. As stated in a surah named after him:

Bismillahir-Rahmanir-Raheem
Surah Hud [11:25]
And we had certainly sent Noah to his people,[saying] "Indeed, I am to you a clear warner".


If in the christian bible it did'nt say that he did works of a prophet, then this would be a disagreement between our religion, imho.


And Allah, subhana wa taala, know best.

Salam!

 

[Getado]

Al-Salam Alaykum,

Well then, the prophethood of Hud(puh) is a disagreement between our religions. Because in Islam he is a prophet. As stated in a surah named after him:

Bismillahir-Rahmanir-Raheem
Surah Hud [11:25]
And we had certainly sent Noah to his people,[saying] "Indeed, I am to you a clear warner".


If in the christian bible it did'nt say that he did works of a prophet, then this would be a disagreement between our religion, imho.


And Allah, subhana wa taala, know best.

Salam!

Its not just a matter of agreement and disagreement ,the problem is bigger than that ,the quran describes Noah as one of the GREATEST prophets of Allah along with Abraham,Moses Jesus and Muhammad PBUT ,whereas the bible (OT) describes Noah as ****************** .

*= that the biblical words is too detestable to be posted here ,Muslims who would read for the first time ,might not sleep well tonight.

Says what ! "Noah is not a Prophet" ,why? ,"because the bible says so"

The bible is Anti-God,anti-prophets,and anti-moralities .Yes it has many good verses in it ,but then again ,poison in the honey ?
Jeremiah 8:8
"How can you say,We are wise,
and the law (Torah) of the LORD is with us'?
But, behold, the false pen of the scribes
has made it into a lie."
Its the same false pens of the Jews that watered the prophethood of prophets that came before Abraham,as well as the prophethood of Ishmael ,JUST to say in another word,"God sent no prophet but from the children of Jacob (ISRAEL) ONLY" .

In vain .

"Miserable is the price for which they have sold their souls, in that they deny (the revelation) which Allah has sent down, in insolent envy that Allah of His Grace should send it to any of His servants He pleases: Thus have they drawn on themselves Wrath upon Wrath. And humiliating is the punishment of those who reject Faith."
Quran 2:90

 

[Basit]

Al-Salam Alaykum,

The bible is Anti-God,anti-prophets,and anti-moralities .Yes it has many good verses in it ,but then again ,poison in the honey ?
Jeremiah 8:8
"How can you say,We are wise,
and the law (Torah) of the LORD is with us'?
But, behold, the false pen of the scribes
has made it into a lie."
Its the same false pens of the Jews that watered the prophethood of prophets that came before Abraham,as well as the prophethood of Ishmael ,JUST to say in another word,"God sent no prophet but from the children of Jacob (ISRAEL) ONLY" .

I think this is one point which Islam and Christianity agrees. Is it?

Salam!

 

[Grace Seeker]

No, Christianity would find it hard to affirm the idea that the Bible is "Anti-God,anti-prophets,and anti-moralities."

We probably would agree that some of the leaders of the nation of Israel were this way, at least on occassion. Would Islam agree with Christianity that there is no mere human being who is completely righteous and does not fall short of the glory of God?

 

[Basit]

Al-Salam Alaykum!

May Allah, subhanah wa taala, forgive me if i am wrong.

I never knew somebody in the entire history that had been COMPLETELY righteous. Ive always knew the Pprophets(pbut) are the most righteous people at their time but, i think, they also commited mistakes which some are unintended.

examples of the mistakes i read from books:

Noah(puh) is drunkard at his time and sometimes go naked when drunk, which made his younger son commit a sin which will be a punishment for his brethen and nation in the future. Jesus(puh) at his youth left his mother when he roamed around and talked with other poeple which made her mother worry and looked for him. Muhammad Mustafa(pbuh) made a mistake when he first recited Surah Al-Najm but he was corrected that same day by the Angel Gabriel.

i cannot disclose the fact that there could be a man who could have lived a completely righteous life. there could be, but i never knew one. Regarding the second one, if somebody was never short of the glory of God(swt)? I believe each one of us lives a life of trials, as this life here on earth is a test, a test of our patience if we could live according to his will and orders, a test if we could endure the hardships of life, a test in which the result will be known at the day of judgment.

And Allah, subhanah wa taala, knows best.

Salam!

 

[IAmZamzam]

Once again I find an article of mine answers the issue somewhat.

 

[Grace Seeker]

Once again I find an article of mine answers the issue somewhat.

What is the issue that you believe you've answered and how does it relate to this thread?

 

[IAmZamzam]

The article shows that all the major teachings of Jesus (P) in the Gospels throughout the Sermon on the Mount and in some other places too are also in the Koran, and his teachings in the Koran in the Gospels, and that the Koran leaves out some highly questionable behavior attributed to him in the Gospels. I thought that connected. If I have misunderstood the thread topic then I apologize. It's a rather long thread and I didn't bother to read all the preceding posts.

 

[Grace Seeker]

The article shows that all the major teachings of Jesus (P) in the Gospels throughout the Sermon on the Mount and in some other places too are also in the Koran, and his teachings in the Koran in the Gospels, and that the Koran leaves out some highly questionable behavior attributed to him in the Gospels. I thought that connected. If I have misunderstood the thread topic then I apologize. It's a rather long thread and I didn't bother to read all the preceding posts.

Ah, so you are suggesting that Islam and Christianity agree on what you understand to be the major teachings of Jesus, especially those outlined in the Sermon on the Mount. Quite probably. Maybe you could list some of the specific teachings you are thinking of as I don't know the Qur'an well enough to know what it says that Jesus taught. (I know your article listed some. However other than "love your enemies", I don't see those being what I as a Christian would have identified as being the major teachings of Jesus. But maybe you could better connect some of the dots for me.)

 

[jeff d]

Wow! This is a great thread! We have so much in common!! The sad thing is that many people here in the usa will never understand this due to pre informed opinions....prejudice you could say. The media here almost always makes a bad word of Islam, which I find to be sickening. Anyways, here's my addition to the post:

Both Muslims and Christians have a lineage in common....Abraham!!!
Praise be to Allah! (God) my he bless all his children, Muslim and Christians alike!!

Sincerely, Rev. Jeff Dishong

 

[Follower]

Basit said- "I never knew somebody in the entire history that had been COMPLETELY righteous. Ive always knew the Pprophets(pbut) are the most righteous people at their time but, i think, they also commited mistakes which some are unintended."

I have never heard this from a muslim before- my understanding was that the prophets in Islam were perfect.

 

[IAmZamzam]

Did you even read the article, Grace Seeker? Because it doesn't just list "some", it goes through the whole Sermon on the Mount as well as several places elsewhere in the Gospels, and the whole of Jesus's (P) teachings in the Koran being in the Gospels as well. The only things different in the plethora of examples I list are variations in rules regarding divorce and oaths.

 

[Follower]

Yahya- the story of the clay birds is from "The Gospel of Thomas the Israelite" a book of fables. Written to late to be included in the New Testament and without the proof that Matthew, Mark, Luke and John have.

 

[Grace Seeker]

Did you even read the article, Grace Seeker? Because it doesn't just list "some", it goes through the whole Sermon on the Mount as well as several places elsewhere in the Gospels, and the whole of Jesus's (P) teachings in the Koran being in the Gospels as well. The only things different in the plethora of examples I list are variations in rules regarding divorce and oaths.

Well, if youread my post you'll note that I agreed that quite probably there are many things in common among the teachings in the Sermon on the Mount and the Qur'an. But then you would also note that I also said:

I don't see those [the teachings you highlighted in your article] being what I as a Christian would have identified as being THE major teachings of Jesus.

Point being that you talked about the major teachings of Christianity. Important as the Sermon on the Mount is, it is only in one Gospel (Matthew), and has a parrallel passage, the Sermon on the Plain, in a second (Luke). So, while it is important, I would reserve the term "major" for that which you would find in all 4 Gospels. That pretty much limits the major teachings to Jesus' feeding of the 5000, Christ's crucifixion, and his subsequent resurrection.

Perhaps I'm making more out of the term "major" than you intended to. If so, I apologize. Now, if you want to talk about the major ethical teachings of Jesus -- which I would agree is revealed primary in the Sermon(s) on the Mount/Plain -- and the ethic of the Qur'an, we may be in more agreement. It's just that for us Christians, Jesus was so much more than just an ethical teacher.

 

[Basit]

Al-Salam Alaykum,

I have never heard this from a muslim before- my understanding was that the prophets in Islam were perfect.

Brother, my post emphasized on the "COMPLETELY RIGHTEOUS" phrase. what i cited as examples of the errors they might have commited, as written in books, as stated in my post are just but human behavioural misconduct and ignorance. The idea which sprouted in my mind that time was if there is somebody completely righteous which is---have good behaviour, holy, good manners and conduct, no spot,---perfect. And so i also said they the most righteous. Brother, i dont want to continue further with this conversation regarding this issue as i feel i maybe wrong and im commiting a grave sin(astagfir-ullah), i just based my answer from what i read.


Anyway, regarding the topic On what Islam and Christianity agree......What about the Dome of the Rock? For Muslims, it is one very important place for us because we believe this is the mountain where the Prophet Abraham(pbuh) nearly sacrificed his son Ishmael(pbuh) and also this is where the Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) rose up to heaven, that is why early muslims constructed a shrine on this mountain which is now known as the Dome of the Rock, which is near the Masjid Al-Aqsa. As for Christians(from what i read), this is also a very important location for them because they believe this is one of the location of the previous temples of Israel. And also Jews are planning to rebuilt the three temples of Israel as prophecied and the third temple's cornerstone is to be on the Dome of the Rock-----i dont know much about this but in one christian website, it says, the construction of the temples of Israel is one sign of the Revelation? and will trigger the event for the coming of the Messiah??


Salam!

 

[IAmZamzam]

Yahya- the story of the clay birds is from "The Gospel of Thomas the Israelite" a book of fables. Written to late to be included in the New Testament and without the proof that Matthew, Mark, Luke and John have.

It's funny that you've brought that up because it (perhaps ironically to someone with your viewpoint) pertains to one more small piece of evidence for the Koran's authenticity: the Gospel of Thomas was written so late, as you say, so how much of it would you expect to be accurate? A couple of little details. And it is only a couple of little details which are paralleled in the Koran. It makes perfect sense. I talk about this and many more such pieces of evidence here.

 

[IAmZamzam]

Well, if youread my post you'll note that I agreed that quite probably there are many things in common among the teachings in the Sermon on the Mount and the Qur'an. But then you would also note that I also saidoint being that you talked about the major teachings of Christianity. Important as the Sermon on the Mount is, it is only in one Gospel (Matthew), and has a parrallel passage, the Sermon on the Plain, in a second (Luke). So, while it is important, I would reserve the term "major" for that which you would find in all 4 Gospels. That pretty much limits the major teachings to Jesus' feeding of the 5000, Christ's crucifixion, and his subsequent resurrection.

Perhaps I'm making more out of the term "major" than you intended to. If so, I apologize. Now, if you want to talk about the major ethical teachings of Jesus -- which I would agree is revealed primary in the Sermon(s) on the Mount/Plain -- and the ethic of the Qur'an, we may be in more agreement. It's just that for us Christians, Jesus was so much more than just an ethical teacher.

What do you consider to be the major teachings? Could you give me a list?

 

[Follower]

"the Gospel of Thomas was written so late, as you say, so how much of it would you expect to be accurate?"

This is simply legend and I certainly wouldn't bet my soul on it.

We have had a number of legends that have been passed down in my family. Some have been very close to the true history of our family that we have obtained through research. Some have been just wild stories!

There is also the Gospel of Barnabas that muslims have in the past have tried to use to prove Islam- it was written way too late with no proof of being fact.

Why wouldn't I go with Matthew, Mark, Luke and John that have proof of history, withstood the test of time, much scrutinity and critical study? This is the Gospel the earliest church fathers used.

 

[IAmZamzam]

[There is also the Gospel of Barnabas that muslims have in the past have tried to use to prove Islam- it was written way too late with no proof of being fact.

Allow me to be, in all likelihood, the first Muslim to tell you this: the Gospel of Barnabas is total B.S. Not only do several things in it contradict Islamic teachings, but it also makes clearly medieval references (as to knights being sent out, although that could conceivably be a matter of medieval translation). For example, have you noticed that the fruit in the Tree of Knowledge is never identified in either the Bible or the Koran (in all likelihood it was one-of-a-kind) yet everyone always speaks of it being an apple? That started in the Middle Ages in some place or other in Europe when the only fruit growing at the time when people put on annual plays in which they reenacted the story happened to be apples. Yet the Gospel of Barnabas, which purports to be older than the Middle Ages, clearly identifies the fruit as an apple (along with corn, for some reason).

Why wouldn't I go with Matthew, Mark, Luke and John that have proof of history, withstood the test of time, much scrutinity and critical study? This is the Gospel the earliest church fathers used.

They don't always withstand my own scrutiny. There is no proof that the alleged authors really wrote it and it seems unlikely (except maybe for Luke, who wasn't an apostle), and there are many historical inaccuracies and contradictions between the Gospels, although that isn't to say a lot of it isn't likely accurate too. It's not a black-or-white matter. We Muslims believe that the only true, God-inspired Gospel was one of the many lost to history, which was in Jesus's (P) own words. It can't be the Gospel of Thomas though, since there's a quotation from that true Gospel in the Koran which is nowhere in that Gospel either.

 

[Follower]

Yahya - "There is no proof that the alleged authors really wrote it and it seems unlikely (except maybe for Luke, who wasn't an apostle), and there are many historical inaccuracies and contradictions between the Gospels, although that isn't to say a lot of it isn't likely accurate too. It's not a black-or-white matter. We Muslims believe that the only true, God-inspired Gospel was one of the many lost to history, which was in Jesus's (P) own words."

Why would GOD not save a scripture? We have the students of the disciples- the early church fathers referencing the Gospel to know that it is in fact the one from GOD.

What historical inaccuracies? All the supposed contradictions of the Holy Bible have been explained many times and in fact are complimentary and not contradictory.