List why I was not satisfied with my Ex religion
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I should have said: 'true Christians are alive to Him'.
Divisions is a sign of desintegration and desintegration is a sickness and sign of death.
God is one, those who are in God are One.
You will notice that the more people rely on dead letters the more divided they get
The very tendancy to rely on a book as prime foundation of faith betrays the faith in God who should be himself pesent.
Followers of books make it seem like God went on journey far far away.
The Church was running before the NT.
The Church compiled the Bible.
It is the Church that knows the Bible not the Bible that knows the Church.
But from the beginning, there have been all kinds of Jesus's funs who manage to rise parallel churches and get themselves the Christian tag. Their divisions testifies to their relationship with the one God.
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Salaam Bro, Umm, i dont want be be mean or anything but , Islam is not the religion that claims , that its followers are the children and the beloved of God Almighty, nor is it the religion that claims that because you are from a certain clan you are God's chosen people, and if God puts you in hell then it will only be for several days and you will be destined to heaven.
I think you need to ask a scholar about this verse in the Holy Quran , because it doesn't really mean that whosoever is Not a muslim will be destined to hell fire and God will reject all their actions, the re was hadith narrated about the prophet PBUH that said ( and please my muslim brothers and sisters correct me if i am wrong) that there was a woman who didn't even belive in God's existance or didn't follow any religion but she had an elderly mother and she used to take care of her very well and she used to even carry her ontop of her back, God has accepted her work, ( her dutifullnes to her mother) and made her one of the dwellers of paradise.
There are also many hadith that say that it is not the worshiping of God almighty that will take people to heaven , it is God's mercy because not all of our actions are truly done in sincerity.
Also a muslim never takes his/her faith for granted and goes around telling people that they are going to heaven or hell just because they are muslim as you can see in the reply of Bro Pgycestosis- srry if i misspelled your name( i also think your reply was very wise that is why i didnt reply )
but i hope i dont end up like that , No one can assure themselves to be saved, there is also another hadith which is very compatible with this concept because it says that a man keeps doing the work of people of will dwell in Jannah (Heaven or Paradise) untill fate goes against them and they start doing the actions of people who are going to hell fire, very similarly a man keeps doing the actions of people who are going to Hell , but fate goes by and they end up doing the actions of people who will be dwelling Jannah, and He/She will be dwellers of therein.I also have some other verses of the Holy Quran i hope you consider
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1.62. Verily! Those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in Allâh and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve .- The Chapter of Albaqarah.
This verse is clear of the fact that Whomsoever beleives in God and does good deeds, they will have a good destiny God willing- and it represents Religous Tolerance.
2.113. Not all of them are alike; a party of the people of the Scripture stand for the right, they recite the Verses of Allâh during the hours of the night, prostrating themselves in prayer.
3.115. And whatever good they do, nothing will be rejected of them; for Allâh knows well those who are Al-Muttaqûn (the pious - see V.2:2).
4.128. Not for you (O Muhammad SAW, but for Allâh) is the decision; whether He turns in mercy to (pardons) them or punishes them; verily, they are the Zâlimûn (polytheists, disobedients, and wrong-doers, etc.). Judgement is Only the Right of God almighty no one else not even the prophets.
5.199. And there are, certainly, among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), those who believe in Allâh and in that which has been revealed to you, and in that which has been revealed to them, humbling themselves before Allâh. They do not sell the Verses of Allâh for a little price, for them is a reward with their Lord. Surely, Allâh is Swift in account.
6.135. And they say, "Be Jews or Christians, then you will be guided." Say (to them, O Muhammad Peace be upon him ), "Nay, (We follow) only the religion of Ibrâhim (Abraham), Hanifa [Islâmic Monotheism, i.e. to worship none but Allâh (Alone)], and he was not of Al-Mushrikûn (those who worshipped others along with Allâh - see V.2:105)."- It says Ibrahim's PBUH - That means to worship and only Belive in God.
7..( It will not be in accordance with your desires (Muslims), nor those of the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), whosoever works evil, will have the recompense thereof, and he will not find any protector or helper besides Allâh.
And there are many other verses and traditions that tell the Muslim and the Non-muslim that whatever deed you have done whther Good or bad will be recorded and Everyone will be held Accountable, No Muslim who follows the prophet Muhammed or the Teachings of the Quran will come out and say i will go to heaven and you will go to hell , this is one thing the Muslim is well aware that it Causes the Anger of God because how can He/ or She dare and decide who will go to heaven or hell and as i said before no one can be assured what their final destination is.
I hope this helped, and was beneficial.
Peace be to all.
i also hope my brothers and sister would help me and correct me if i was wrong this is my understanding which i hope you respect.
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A lot of posts in here since I've been gone. Not sure I can response to each one individually, so here is a collective effort.
I too was guilty of being a "psuedo-Christian" for a long time. I went to church and all, but I still did whatever I wanted to do because hey, I had Jesus. Eventually the guilt sickened me to the point that I quit going to church altogether. Then I got angry with God. "How can you allow me to exist when I don't even worship you like I'm supposed to?!" So I became an atheist for a while. Eventually I realized that there is a higher power, but I didn't know who or what it was. I still did whatever I wanted though and never gave a thought to my heart and mind.
Which brings me to here. I'm tired of my life as it is and I don't like who I have become. Something needs to change and that's what I am trying to do now. I don't care about Jews vs. Palestinians. I don't care about Christians vs. Muslims. I just want to be someone I like and be happy with my life.
I too was guilty of being a "psuedo-Christian" for a long time. I went to church and all, but I still did whatever I wanted to do because hey, I had Jesus. Eventually the guilt sickened me to the point that I quit going to church altogether. Then I got angry with God. "How can you allow me to exist when I don't even worship you like I'm supposed to?!" So I became an atheist for a while. Eventually I realized that there is a higher power, but I didn't know who or what it was. I still did whatever I wanted though and never gave a thought to my heart and mind.
Which brings me to here. I'm tired of my life as it is and I don't like who I have become. Something needs to change and that's what I am trying to do now. I don't care about Jews vs. Palestinians. I don't care about Christians vs. Muslims. I just want to be someone I like and be happy with my life.
I understand. I grew up Christian, but could not rectify the teachings with my conscience. I am now a UU, and feel not only happy, but fulfilled.
Peace,
Seeker
I don't know if I could possibly list all the reasons myself! Let's see...Here are just a few right off the top of my head:
1. Christianity is the only religion whose very core doctrine is an incoherent and illogical mess of words that necessitates a lot of alternate theories (substitution, ransom, etc.) about what the most critical detail of all happens to be. And of course none of those theories holds any water whatsoever. It is a religion built around words rather than beliefs, and the beliefs themselves are invariably just varying definitions of the jargon.
2. The Bible is so full of errors, evils attributed to God, Jesus (P) and all the core prophets, and stitched-together patchworks of different manuscripts, that even being the most extreme non-inerrantist was an impossible strain on my conscience for all the self-dishonesty required.
3. There is never any need for God to come incarnate when dying as a man would accomplish nothing (see #1) that a human prophet could not just as easily accomplish. Especially when you consider God's omnipotence. I have never seen any counter-argument to this notion which makes sense and does not limit God's abilities (like Jack Chick's ants analogy).
4. The Gospels, even as they are, start off relatively consistent with each other (for the most part, anyway, and on most important issues) and then get more and more contradictory and confused the further and further you get into their key events, the accounts of the passion being very contradictory and the accounts of the resurrection part being ludicrously contradictory.
5. Whenever there are parallels between the Koran and the Bible (not just when it comes to stories either, although that is indeed frequent), the Koran will invariably come out as containing a less blasphemous, more believable, more righteous, or more logical version of things, going all the further toward confirming its being the true book of God.
1. Christianity is the only religion whose very core doctrine is an incoherent and illogical mess of words that necessitates a lot of alternate theories (substitution, ransom, etc.) about what the most critical detail of all happens to be. And of course none of those theories holds any water whatsoever. It is a religion built around words rather than beliefs, and the beliefs themselves are invariably just varying definitions of the jargon.
2. The Bible is so full of errors, evils attributed to God, Jesus (P) and all the core prophets, and stitched-together patchworks of different manuscripts, that even being the most extreme non-inerrantist was an impossible strain on my conscience for all the self-dishonesty required.
3. There is never any need for God to come incarnate when dying as a man would accomplish nothing (see #1) that a human prophet could not just as easily accomplish. Especially when you consider God's omnipotence. I have never seen any counter-argument to this notion which makes sense and does not limit God's abilities (like Jack Chick's ants analogy).
4. The Gospels, even as they are, start off relatively consistent with each other (for the most part, anyway, and on most important issues) and then get more and more contradictory and confused the further and further you get into their key events, the accounts of the passion being very contradictory and the accounts of the resurrection part being ludicrously contradictory.
5. Whenever there are parallels between the Koran and the Bible (not just when it comes to stories either, although that is indeed frequent), the Koran will invariably come out as containing a less blasphemous, more believable, more righteous, or more logical version of things, going all the further toward confirming its being the true book of God.
Salam Mr Yahya
I have to add that, bible talks that our Creator got tired, I mean He rested on the 7th day of Creating the WORLD. This is not attributable to a REAL GOD
In addition, Sex occurs frequently in the Bible, how could one say these are the words of God? Even some prophet were accused of adultery or something!!!
Istighfar
I have to add that, bible talks that our Creator got tired, I mean He rested on the 7th day of Creating the WORLD. This is not attributable to a REAL GOD
In addition, Sex occurs frequently in the Bible, how could one say these are the words of God? Even some prophet were accused of adultery or something!!!
Istighfar
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Yeah, that whole "rest on the 7th day" thing used to bother me. Just like the weird Trinity and divinity of Jesus.
Salam
Sorry i already mentioned the Sex thing but what I would like to add is how could the writers of the bible (OF COURSE NOT WORD OF GOD) talks about prophet engaging adultery & so on
I pray that people would read+analyze
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Yeah I always thought it weird that I was always taught "no sex before marriage" but then the Bible is full of stories involving sex. I thought it unfair that that God would tease me like that.
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Not only engaging in adultery, but a prophet who had sex with his own daughters!
astaghfirullah!
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This has to be one of the most concise and clearest list I've read on what is wrong with christianity.
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The more I study Islam and the Qu'ran the more I am convinced that I made the right decision to take shahada. I am just starting to learn surah al Fatiha in Arabic, and already I can see the lyrical quality of the original text. That can't be just a coincidence.
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The price of tea in China isn't mentioned in the Bible, but I doubt that this is relevant any more than this list is. Though you are wrong with regard to some of your points, such as the suggestion that the word Christian isn't found in the Bible:
- Acts 11:26
and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.
- Acts 26:28
Then Agrippa said to Paul, “Do you think that in such a short time you can persuade me to be a Christian?”
- 1 Peter 4:16
However, if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name.
Such as the comments that there is only one God. Duh, no user of the Bible has ever said anything different be he Christian or Jew.
And you seem surprised that sex is mentioned in the Bible. Well guess what, God invented it. And when he got done with all of his creation he said it was good. Of course it gets talked about, but the way that God meant for it to be used to bless and the perversions of it so that people might be corrected and warned how not to live.
And then you seem to jump to some pretty fanciful conclusions based on false premises. For instance: you imply that we hold Jesus to be God because he has no earthly father. No, that's not the reason. We get the idea that Jesus is God because he is called exactly that:
--by Thomas, "My Lord and my God!” (John 20:28)
--by Peter, "God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord (in this context the term equates with calling Jesus God) and Messiah.” (Acts 2:36)
--by Paul, "Have the same mindset as Christ Jesus: who, being in very nature God..." (Philippians 2:5b-6a)
You seem to get the idea that Jesus being hungry proves he didn't die. Do you forget about the part of the story called the resurrection? Or maybe you don't understand that this means that after Jesus had died, that he was brought back to life again. And in that resurrected state he would continue to eat and sleep and all the other things that physical human bodies do.
You seem to think that there is some significance in the fact that Jesus did human activities. You are right. It's called the incarnation.
You try to imply that prayer disproves Jesus could be God. How abusrd! Again, though he was God, on earth he lived as a servant of God, including the need to remain in constant communication with his Father -- which, by the way, is a natural part of the process of how the persons relate to one another in the Godhead.
You falsely claim that Jesus confirms that the biggest sin a man can commit is believing in Multiple gods. In truth Jesus says that all sins can be forgiven but for one, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit (Matthew 12:31).
We don't ask you to agree with Christian teaching or with the Bible. But we do ask you to get it straight and not misrepresent either what we the People of the Book believe or what is to be found in the pages of the Book. "Do not argue with People of the Book unless it is in a most kindly manner, except with those of them who have been unjust. Say, "We believe in revelation which has come down to us, and in that which came doe to you. Our God and your God is one. And it is unto God that we surrender ourselves." (Qur'an 29:46)
Salam
Thanks for the information, its addition to my knowledge. In advance I would like to apologize to all the reader for I am not a good writer but I will try to avoid lots of errors esp in grammar. If I will offend you mr grace seeker,,, in any way I will not apologize coz I will do what it takes to prove that there is ONLY ONE TRUE GOD. Inshallah
Bismillah Arahman Araheem
In some translation they didn’t use Christian, instead The Jews called them “Nazarenes or Gallileans” Infact, the Nazarenes were the original Christians, so that caused more confusion to me. I have also read that Ebionites are the true Christians.It is more than complicated to me.
The definition of the word “TRUTH” means simple and constant and should not be changed over times.
How about Christianity, was it confirmed as the religion and Christians being the follower?
Christians define: Christianity is based on the life and teachings of Jesus (NOT THE ONE TRUE CREATOR). Adherents of the Christian faith are known as Christians.
How about the 1st four Commandments? 1. I am the Lord your God 2. You shall have no other gods before me 3. You shall not make for yourself an idol 4. You shall not make wrongful use of the name of your one God
Son of God:
Didn’t it mention in the bible that Israel, David, Ephraim & Solomon are also son of God?
My common sense view of Prophet Jesus.
With all what I think is right, I will still put myself in your position for me to have a better understanding.
Jesus photo is not at all printed in any Bible, thousand years ago Camera was not invented. Then how can you justify to me that The Statue of Jesus being worship is his real looks, not invented or not a pic of a man who has a huge dream to be worshipped?
Secondly, please go & take two statues & keep them close together. Can you see what I see? Exactly!!! They are not 100% identical in any manner. Eyes, nose … can be little smaller & eyelashes could be less. What am I thinking? You are right again, I knew you are indeed very CLEVER!!! Yesssss! it is MAN- MADE.
As you can see, why there can’t be two President in one country or two dad to a baby? Why? because it would be totally mess!
Now let me give you bullets (not from a gun) to understand your cycle:
1. Jesus was born
2. Jesus was crucified & died for 3days (hmm no need to ask who is GOD DURING these days)
3. Jesus was buried but he come to Life again (some believe he escape from death becoz he look for fish& hangry)
4. Now Jesus is ALIVE after death right?
If you believe he was raised by God to heaven, where is his body? Was it buried again, when & which part of the bible it is mentioned?
Now if his body or soul was raised and Jesus and God is ONE, You must tell me Jesus entered the BODY OF GOD.. Now you are talking, yes should be this way to say they are ONE. But nah
As I said, whattt ??? is that Dragon Ball Z, some kinda FUSION thinggg? Are we still talking about a religion here ???
Let us imagine, there is an earthquake, and Jesus statue break down. Do you still call him Son of God or God, when he can’t even save himself from a little shake? Hold him tight I’m sure you can save HIM. But no no no, a BIG NO NO NO, He can’t save you. So shall we say, you should be the God of this statue coz you were the Protector? Yah im the first one to believe.
I can be little crazy in my imagination, but there is no way I can believe that Our Beloved Prophet Easa is God. And I will share you the ff and please stay online and let’s end this:
Mathew 26:39 Jesus fell with his face to the ground and prayed to God…
If I say One True God, the Creator and Jesus is one – then Mat 26:39 meant that Jesus prayed to himself. Why would he do that, isn’t it when two has the same title, both must have equal rights etc.
Okay, you will not have hard time to convince me to believe if you show me ANY verse from the Bible that the Creator Himself, fell His face to the ground and prayed to Jesus?
No way!!! Instead you will find that Jesus fast for 40days to please his Creator & so on.
What is this some kind of a joke? Please don’t make me nervous, I have a weak heart. Why would you people keep on insisting that God and human can be same in some aspects? One of the Attributes of REAL God must be All HOLY - The One who is pure from any imperfection and clear FROM adversaries.
Here’s another guess for you, Jesus does not have any idea whatsoever that he is gonna pay for all your sins PEOPLE .
Matthew 27:46
About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? (sharing you my basic Arabic knowledge: Allah Allah lama tarak tani?) "--which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"
Why on earth your God cried out loud? That is totally nothing but shameless. Why on earth Your God has to pay the sin of HIS CREATION!!! TO whooom he has to pay if He and God is one!!! If there is some kind of bargaining here, dudeee Wake up, both the God and Jesus must share the tears right? Now if you agree with me, then you not Christian anymore, YOU ARE ATHEIST that means half Muslim. Shame shame and forever shameeeee
And I’d like you to guess more, your bible confirms that Jesus and God are not ONE.
Mark 13:32
"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father”
Surprisingly to you, your Jesus is very well 100% dead on this very HOUR. No One or even your eyelash will stand on this very moment EXCEPT the ONE TRUE GOD. Subhanallah!!! Takbeerr ya Muslim brothers & Sisters! Allahu Akbar
I really would like to continue replying but you know, I do feel it’s a total waste of time. Don’t tell me to answer all your statement because our Prophets are not like the prophets in your bible, our Prophets (Peace be Upon Them) were role model to all mankind, they were never accused of adultery or anything like that.
No Mister, I am not so surprised that sex is mentioned in the Bible, coz let me tell you, In Islam a husband & wife having sex is equivalent to worshipping our God.
But I didnt expect that many Christian paretns would stop their teenage children from reading bible bcoz of XXX thing in it. what is it some kind of PLAYBOY magazine???
You are well educated enough about Islam seeing your reputation and posts however you are well far from being one of the Believers. And mind you Mr Ramadhan will get lots of blessing for being so patient with you but I am not.
Let me tell you what I learned last night from my dear loving husband’s (May Allah be pleased with him) statement which I am obliged to share to you. A PROUD and a BELIEVER can’t be together. Little did you know that Shaytan prays to Allah more than any of His Creation,,, But why he is where he is right NOW??? Coz he is A BIG BIG PROUD.
My One True God will never guide those who are proud and denial of TRUTH. So hence I would just like to leave you with this Surrah Al Kafirun
Say (O Muhammad): O ye who reject faith! (1)
I worship not that which ye worship. (2)
Nor will you worship that which I worship. (3)
And I will never worship that which you worship. (4)
Nor will you worship that which I worship. (5)
Unto you is your religion and unto me is my religion (Islam). (6)
So in view of the above, My one True God = Allah is not the God you have in your mind
Ma salam and I wish not to waste more time with you.
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Grace Seeker
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Riana, I'm not going to go through all that you wrote piece by piece. I'm not here to convert anyone. But you have said that you are interested in truth. And though there are many different way by which the first followers of Jesus were referred (disciples, followers of the Nazarene, followers of The Way, and other). You made a statement that the word Christian was not found in the Bible. That simply isn't true. You may try to deflect from that reality by pointing to some of the other words that were used. But it doesn't change the facts. The word Christian is used in the Bible. I gave you three different references. It isn't a matter of translation. The text clearly says "Christian" not one of these other suggestions you have made. •Acts 11:26and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.The original Greek version of that last sentence reads: "καὶ διδάξαι ὄχλον ἱκανόν, χρηματίσαι τε πρώτως ἐν Ἀντιοχείᾳ τοὺς μαθητὰς Χριστιανούς." I've highlighted the last word, which when transliterated into the English alphabet reads "Christianous". I'm pretty sure the translation is self-evident.You also make many statements that assume facts that are not in evidence. And example:
1) It appears you are assuming that Christians think that the various statues and paintings of Jesus that one see do in fact represent how Jesus actually looked. -- The truth is, we don't.
2) It appears you are assuming that we worship the statues or pictures. -- The truth is, we don't.
But like I said, I'm not going to continue to pick you apart. That isn't my goal. Rather, I'm curious as to the purpose behind your post? You are the originator of this thread. You titled it "List why I was not satisfied with my Ex religion." But many of the things that you have posted simply are not a part of the belief and structure of any form of Christianity that I know. Riana, were you once a Christian? Were you actually taught to worship statues and that they actually looked like Jesus? Where did you get the fallacious idea that the word "Christian" wasn't mentioned in the Bible?
Perhaps more importantly, are you actually posting to share with us that with which you were not satisified? Or is there a different purpose? Are the criticisms of Christianity that you have articulated above ones that you actually had at the time, or are they new points you have added since leaving Christianity?
Your posts thus far in this thread seem to be focused more on what's wrong with Christianity, than what you promised in the title of your thread, how Christianity failed to satisfy you. I am actually interested in learning where Christianity failed you if you care to share it.
It appears you are assuming many things:
1) It appears you are assuming that Christians think that the various statues and paintings of Jesus that one see do in fact represent how Jesus actually looked. -- The truth is, we don't.
2) It appears you are assuming that we worship the statues or pictures. -- The truth is, we don't.
Does not Islam have the same question? Islam teaches that Jesus never died to begin with, but was taken into heaven. Now, if he was raised by God to heaven, where is his body? It is the exact same question, so I don't see why you even need to ask it. It certainly isn't an objection to Christianity.
But like I said, I'm not going to continue to pick you apart. That isn't my goal. Rather, I'm curious as to the purpose behind your post? You are the originator of this thread. You titled it "List why I was not satisfied with my Ex religion." But many of the things that you have posted simply are not a part of the belief and structure of any form of Christianity that I know. Riana, were you once a Christian? Were you actually taught to worship statues and that they actually looked like Jesus? Where did you get the fallacious idea that the word "Christian" wasn't mentioned in the Bible?
Perhaps more importantly, are you actually posting to share with us that with which you were not satisified? Or is there a different purpose? Are the criticisms of Christianity that you have articulated above ones that you actually had at the time, or are they new points you have added since leaving Christianity?
Your posts thus far in this thread seem to be focused more on what's wrong with Christianity, than what you promised in the title of your thread, how Christianity failed to satisfy you. I am actually interested in learning where Christianity failed you if you care to share it.
جوري
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ummm he was raised with his body!
he didn't die, I think you've been here long enough to know that? Aside from fulfilling his mission upon returning to the Earth he'll also die as every human self shall have a taste of death!
best,